USA falling apart?

[Bikni]

In George W. Bush, Republicans had possibly the worst president in the history of the US, the man deregulated financial institutions allowing them to build the housing bubble, pursue risky trades unchecked, sinking western economies to its knees; run a tab on 2 wars, one of them under absolutely outrageous pretexts, any world leader from another country would be under trial for crimes against humanity, wars that cost thousands of young American life's not to mention the Iraqi civilians which no one seems to care about, wars that cost the American tax payer not billions but trillions of dollars, so the Bush cartel and their Saudi buddies can continue to get their billions from oil revenue; 50% of Bushes tax cuts benefited 5% of the American population, straining the middle class, which in the view of many economists is the engine of a healthy economy.

The man was a DISASTER, the result of this election is exactly what democracy is for. Stop listening to scaremongers in the media, instead of acting like kids who think they can't sleep because they have a imaginary boogeyman man in his room, grow up and get a life.

[Tahapenes]

The President writes the budget.

No he doesn't. he approves it. Big difference.

[PACOX]

What is up with all the Glenn Beck Rush Limbaugh nonsense post?

[buck008]

The U.S. is going downhill regardless of who's in office.

You can take any possible political candidate from the past 30 years and put him in the seat, and we would still be in the exact same place we are today. I guarantee it.

We have set ourselves up a lifestyle which can only foster more problems down the road. Within the next decade or so, we are going to have to start taking drastic measures if we want this to continue working and it's not going to be very pretty.

As a nation and as a civilization, we are further ahead than at any other point in our existence, yet we are falling faster than ever before. How is it that previous civilizations thrived for thousands of years when we, as a nation only 236 years old, can barely keep it together?

Again, people have been saying this for the past 236 years. Wake me when it happens.

This isn't to say we don't have problems, of course we do. We might overcome them faster if we, as a people, didn't have two problem solving modes:
1. It's not my fault. Here are all the reasons it is (insert scapegoat here)'s fault.
2. This is just another sign of the inevitable decline of America under the tyrannical rule of my opponent.
We keep this up until the last possible moment, and then slap together a compromise that will hold us until the next crisis.

By we, I don't mean just Americans. This is a human nature kind of thing.

The whole political system reminds of of that "That's a problem for future Homer" episode of the Simpsons.

[Laize]

No he doesn't. he approves it. Big difference.

Wow I just facepalmed so hard I think I gave myself a concussion.

Congress presents BILLS to the President for him to sign or veto.

The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.

Have Civics courses in America fallen so far?

[ares1023]

Really if you say Texas should leave, then you should also say California should too

[Narfwak]

Read the article. They're citizen petitions. They have no popular support whatsoever. Some of them aren't even in southern states.

And I really wish people would stop this whole "lolol get rid of Texas" shit. It's far less conservative as whole than most people would believe, and the size of the state means that there's a diversity of local politics even within the state GOP. It's also the third most populous state in the US and has a very large economy, particularly in technology and research.

[obdigore]

Wow I just facepalmed so hard I think I gave myself a concussion.

Congress presents BILLS to the President for him to sign or veto.

The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.

Have Civics courses in America fallen so far?

Its odd that as written the President should present a budget request to congress (and he does) and then congress should really approve/deny the different aspects of it, instead of the whole thing. Congress should also be able to add stuff to it for laws they are planning to pass and w/e. But I suppose that would be thinking ahead.

Also, remember that the budget presented by the end of Feb in 2013 will be for the year 2014.

[buck008]

Wow I just facepalmed so hard I think I gave myself a concussion.

Congress presents BILLS to the President for him to sign or veto.

The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.

Have Civics courses in America fallen so far?

Well, to be fair, when the budget goes before Congress, both houses can change things. The final resolution has to pass both houses and a joint committee like a normal bill, and goes back to the president for final approval. It's a bit more needlessly complex than that, but Congress has ample opportunity to amend the budget.

[ares1023]

Love how people bring Bush up so often still, as if everybody doesn't already know the crap he caused. But funny thing is, Bush got elected twice, just like Obama. So you can say all the bad things you want about Bush, but people voted him in for a second term still, same with Obama. Fact is politicians suck, the political parties suck; they all lie and deceive us, and we just go along playing their games. Don't affiliate with a political party, cause those 2 political parties are what is inhibiting the US from growing in many ways.

[Rheckameohs]

Thoughts? Secession is illegal, and failed in 1860. This is crap brought to you by malcontent whiners and nothing more.

The legality of secession is...tricky, to say the least. The easiest way I can explain it is as follows: secession is legal with the consent of the federal government; otherwise, yes, it is illegal. That said, it doesn't apply to Texas, whose state constitution blatantly states that it has the right to secede whenever it damn well feels like it. IIRC, it was a condition put forth by Texas after the Civil War as part of its reintegration into the Union.

See: Texas vs. White, 1868.

The more you know.

[Rukentuts]

No he doesn't. he approves it. Big difference.

No, he proposes it. Congress appropriates and approves.

---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 10:36 PM ----------

The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.

No, Congress can do whatever they want with the President's numbers. They can completely ignore them if they wanted. After the budget is proposed, Congress meets to go over it and each subcommittee appropriates funding for whatever they need. This gets assembled into a resolution Congress then votes on. President doesn't sign or veto a passed resolution, which is then the operating budget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...budget_process

The President has a very low amount of authority when it comes to the budget. Therefore whenever someone says "The President increased the debt by X.", that's bullshit. Congress did.

[Agoonga]

The Confederacy will never rise again, and if it tries, it will relive the past.

[Laize]

Its odd that as written the President should present a budget request to congress (and he does) and then congress should really approve/deny the different aspects of it, instead of the whole thing. Congress should also be able to add stuff to it for laws they are planning to pass and w/e. But I suppose that would be thinking ahead.

Also, remember that the budget presented by the end of Feb in 2013 will be for the year 2014.

Congress' job is to make the laws and represent the people.

The President is the actual head of government. To that end, it's his job, as chief executive, to lay out a budget for the branches of government. He then submits it to "the people" (Congress) for approval.

[obdigore]

Congress' job is to make the laws and represent the people.

The President is the actual head of government. To that end, it's his job, as chief executive, to lay out a budget for the branches of government. He then submits it to "the people" (Congress) for approval.

Yes, but Congress holds the purse strings. Congress can deny/approve/do whatever the fuck they want with what the President submitted to them.

[Budong]

I will gladly sign any petition that kicks Texas out of the Union. Hell, I'd donate big bucks if that petition included allowing Mexico to annex them.

[vastx]

The Supreme Court of the US upheld that secession is illegal. It was even previously ruled that, since secession was illegal, that the Confederate government in Texas was an illegitimate government and that Texas never seceded from the union.






Rebelling against the federal government. There are many reasons that states won't try secede.

The US wasn't founded on being independent. The Revolutionary War was started based on taxation without representation. If the colonies had been given representation with which to discuss tax rates with, they would have stayed British because we were perfectly fine with being a British colony. The Declaration of Independence is named as such to declare our independence from Britain, not to promote independence itself.

The Declaration of Independence does carry within it, the spirit of secession. Read it again.

Remember, the constitution lays out our government and restricts the power it has. The reason the 10th amendment exists is because you can not enumerate all powers and rights given to people or the states. What if they forgot something, lol? Just because a right isn't in the constitution, doesn't mean it's not reserved for the people or states.

[Rukentuts]

The Declaration of Independence does carry within it, the spirit of secession. Read it again.

Remember, the constitution lays out our government and restricts the power it has. The reason the 10th amendment exists is because you can not enumerate all powers and rights given to people or the states. What if they forgot something, lol? Just because a right isn't in the constitution, doesn't mean it's not reserved for the people or states.

The SCOTUS said secession was unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".[2]

[vastx]

The Confederacy will never rise again, and if it tries, it will relive the past.

Slow down bud. No one..rather no large movement is pushing for secession. God forbid our country ever fall to ruin where people would seek secession. But if it occurs in my lifetime and a tyrannical power controls Washington, I would support it. I wouldn't do it easily. It wouldn't be on a whim. But I believe a people have a natural right to determine their destiny.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 12:57 AM ----------

The SCOTUS said secession was unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

The struggle for American independence was just as unlawful.

If a people choose secession, they break all bonds, law included. Natural right trumps.

[belfpala]

If a people choose secession, they break all bonds, law included. Natural right trumps.

Strange. It seems that guns trumped. I may have napped through those parts of my history classes, though.