I'm thinking of buying a computer... but which?

[MCMXCIX]

So far, these are some deals I've found. First one $500 (includes OS and Monitor):

Processor:Intel® 3rd Generation Core™ i5-3330S (quad core)
System Memory (RAM): 8GB
Type of Memory (RAM): DDR3 SDRAM
Processor Speed: 2.7GHz (with Turbo Boost up to 3.2GHz)
Cache Memory: 6MB
Hard Drive Size: 1TB
Graphics: Intel® HD
Operating System: Windows 8 64-bit

Second $400 (includes OS):
Intel HD Graphics 2500
Windows 8
Intel Core i3 3220(3.30GHz)
8GB DDR3 500GB HDD Capacity
3MB L3 cache

Third $330: (these are the parts, I'd have to buy an OS and that's a question for another thread) AMD A10-5800K Quad-Core Radeon HD7660D APU, Asus F2A55-M LE FM2 A55 Motherboard, Mushkin DDR3 16GB Memory, Rosewill Gaming ATX Mid Tower Case, Rosewill 450W PSU

Fourth, Chaud's latest puppy build:

Case NZXT GAMMA Classic - $35
Power Supply Corsair CX500 - $60
CPU AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition- $98
Heatsink Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $25
Motherboard ASUS M5A97 R2 AM3+ 970 - $105
Memory Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB 1333 - $20
Graphics Card XFX 7770 - $100
Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $56
DVD Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $23
Total $522

Basically, if you factor in OS and a monitor, the first three cost roughly the same. The fourth one I'd have to either buy an OS, which would add ~$100 or take my old Windows XP 32-bit from my current desktop.

Question is: how would they perform for games?

[Biernot]

Quick summary of the relevant parts:

1.
i5-3330S (quad 2.7GHz, turbo 3.2GHz)
8GB RAM
Intel HD Graphics 2500

2.
i3-3220 (dual 3.3GHz)
8GB RAM
Intel HD Graphics 2500

3.
A10-5800K (quad 3.8GHz, turbo 4.2GHz)
16GB 1333MHz RAM
AMD HD7660D

4.
Phenom II X4 965 (quad 3.4GHz)
4GB 1333MHz Ram
AMD HD7770


For games, number 4. is the best out of the box, because it has the best VGA (and on a side note, the only one with a dedicated graphics card). The integrated intel graphics are not powerful enough for any serious gaming, except fairly old titles with low performance needs. The integrated graphics from number 3. is actually quite good, but still can't compete with the HD7770.

If we would just look at the cpu, all 4 are roughly equal for gaming, with number 3 maybe a little ahead of the rest. This is interesting, because depending on the case and psu, the first 3 can be upgraded with a dedicated video card, making them on par or better than number 4.

Re-using your old XP license for number 4. is feasable, because you only have 4GB ram in there. But keep in mind, that you will only have about 3GB usable ram with windows xp.

If you would be getting number 3., make sure to get 8GB 1866MHz ram instead of the 16GB. The integrated graphics card benefits a lot from faster ram.


In the end it comes down to:
- What games do you want to play at what graphics settings? (resolution, detail settings, FSAA, ...)
- Are 1. and 2. upgradeable with a dedicated video card? (what case and psu do they come in)

[yurano]

Your 3rd build does not include an optical drive or HDD which would add about $80 to your price. This would bring the computer price up to $400 (minus graphics card, monitor, peripherals and OS).

Your 4th build does not include a monitor so its total equivalent price would be $700+.

Since you're posting on WoW forums, I'm going to assume you care about WoW performance. As such, we would opt for a CPU with less cores but more per core performance.

Going off the budget of your 3rd and 4th build, here's what I'd shoot for.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($114.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($87.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($36.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 311 (Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($42.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($39.65 @ Compuvest)
Other: Optical Drive ($20.00)
Total: $542.14
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-15 11:35 EST-0500)

Here I picked a 7850 because it was $150 after $20 MIR with free shipping from Newegg. It blows the 7770s out of the water.

If you cannot afford $540 for the base computer, your next option would be Marest's Extreme Budget Gaming 470.

With an even tighter budget, I would opt for the first prebuilt you posted. If you can find it, a prebuilt with a i3-3225 would have better graphics performance than the i5-3330S you listed because the 3225 uses HD 4000 and the 3330S uses HD 4000. To put it in perspective, the Intel HD 2500 has 6 GPU execution units where as the Intel HD 4000 has 16 execution units. I would avoid the HD 2500 if at all possible.

[MCMXCIX]

The first one is just a regular dell, which aren't really designed for upgrading, while the second one is an IBuyPower, which is gaming oriented, so it probably allows for it.

I have an old monitor and a copy of Windows XP I can use. Most games nowadays have downloads either from their site or Steam, so I don't NEED an optical drive, right?

Yes, I'm posting in a WoW forum, but my current computer can play WoW fine (as long as I don't do LFR or anything with a lot of players like some BGs). What I want is to be able to play games from the past 4 years, which often times it cannot do. Borderlands 2, Kingdoms of Amalur, Dark Souls, Dishonored, Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed III, Dead Space (series), Mass Effect (series), and more, and of course for MMOs like WoW, Diablo 3, GW2, and TERA. I know I can't get ultra, let alone high with this set up, and I'm not gonna be able to use a high resolution or a ton of AA, but as long as I can play on any settings level with little to no framerate issues, I'll be in heaven. In some MoP dungeons, I get like, 5 fps...

[Peroxidex]

Number 4 would be the best performance wise.

Based on your choices and what appears to be lack of knowledge with computers, I'd recommend a prebuilt as it'd cost a lot more if you damage any of the hardware.

[MCMXCIX]

Number 4 would be the best performance wise.

Based on your choices and what appears to be lack of knowledge with computers, I'd recommend a prebuilt as it'd cost a lot more if you damage any of the hardware.

Well, I wouldn't say I lack computer knowledge, it's just that I've never built a computer before. The most I've ever done was add in/replace some RAM and a graphics card. But with all the videos guides out there, plus an anti-static wristband, I can't imagine I'd screw anything up.

[yurano]

I have an old monitor and a copy of Windows XP I can use. Most games nowadays have downloads either from their site or Steam, so I don't NEED an optical drive, right?

Yes, I'm posting in a WoW forum, but my current computer can play WoW fine (as long as I don't do LFR or anything with a lot of players like some BGs). What I want is to be able to play games from the past 4 years, which often times it cannot do. Borderlands 2, Kingdoms of Amalur, Dark Souls, Dishonored, Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed III, Dead Space (series), Mass Effect (series), and more, and of course for MMOs like WoW, Diablo 3, GW2, and TERA. I know I can't get ultra, let alone high with this set up, and I'm not gonna be able to use a high resolution or a ton of AA, but as long as I can play on any settings level with little to no framerate issues, I'll be in heaven. In some MoP dungeons, I get like, 5 fps...

Nope, no optical drive necessary. Its more of a formality. You can install Windows 7 with a USB stick and you can always borrow a optical drive from another computer to install Windows XP.

Well, sufficient (15+ FPS at lowest settings) LFR performance seems like a requirement for WoW. Otherwise, you're missing out on half the game.

WoW performance is not important and your old computer has a sufficient CPU, you can just upgrade the graphics card. Most games are GPU dependent. However, the problem there is lack of power if you're trying to upgrade a prebuilt. The best graphics card which doesn't require a power connector is the 7750.

[MCMXCIX]

Nope, no optical drive necessary. Its more of a formality. You can install Windows 7 with a USB stick and you can always borrow a optical drive from another computer to install Windows XP.

Well, sufficient (15+ FPS at lowest settings) LFR performance seems like a requirement for WoW. Otherwise, you're missing out on half the game.

If you don't care about WoW performance and your old computer has a sufficient CPU, you can just upgrade the graphics card. Most games are GPU dependent. However, the problem there is lack of power if you're trying to upgrade a prebuilt. The best graphics card which doesn't require a power connector is the 7750.

That's out of the question, because my old computer, the one I'm using at the moment, is from 2003. I have the best GPU that you can get for PCI, so upgrading isn't worth it.

[yurano]

That's out of the question, because my old computer, the one I'm using at the moment, is from 2003. I have the best GPU that you can get for PCI, so upgrading isn't worth it.

Bummer, then I would go for the build I posted. That will give you the performance you're looking for in GPU heavy games.

What resolution is your monitor?

[MCMXCIX]

Bummer, then I would go for the build I posted. That will give you the performance you're looking for in GPU heavy games.

What resolution is your monitor?

It's some old 1024x768. I would be perfectly content with that resolution or maybe even 800x600 if it got me better performance.

[yurano]

It's some old 1024x768. I would be perfectly content with that resolution or maybe even 800x600 if it got be better performance.

The 7850 I listed has solid performance at 1920x1080. A 7750 is more than sufficient for 1024x768. Take a look: http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Cataly...2_1280_800.gif and http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Cataly...y_1280_800.gif

Consider getting a new monitor.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($114.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($87.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 311 (Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($42.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($39.65 @ Compuvest)
Monitor: Acer G215HVBbd 60Hz 21.5" Monitor ($117.98 @ CompUSA)
Total: $628.11
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-15 15:04 EST-0500)

Scavenging a HDD would drop the price to $570.

[MCMXCIX]

The problem is at the moment, I can only afford ~$550 (maybe ~$650, but only if that extra hundred is really worth it), so any mail in rebates would have to low it under that value, not to it. I'm currently between jobs, and I'm waiting for a call, so I don't know if I'll be able to save up more after getting the job or not. Seeing all these Black Friday sales made me really antsy for a computer that can actually run the games I have/want to have.

[yurano]

The problem is at the moment, I can only afford ~$550 (maybe ~$650, but only if that extra hundred is really worth it), so any mail in rebates would have to low it under that value, not to it. I'm currently between jobs, and I'm waiting for a call, so I don't know if I'll be able to save up more after getting the job or not. Seeing all these Black Friday sales made me really antsy for a computer that can actually run the games I have/want to have.

If thats the case, you can always buy the monitor later.

[MCMXCIX]

I saw these on Newegg, and they're within my price range. How do they compare to the one you recommend?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883113235
AMD Radeon HD 7540D
Windows 8
A6-Series APU A6-5400K(3.6GHz)
6GB DDR3 1TB HDD Capacity

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883103411

AMD FX-Series FX-8100(2.8GHz)
6GB DDR3 1TB HDD Capacity
AMD Radeon HD 7350 1GB
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883229361
AMD Radeon HD 6670 1GB
Windows 8
AMD FX-Series FX-8120(3.1GHz)
8GB DDR3 1TB HDD Capacity

[yurano]

The Gateway computer has a weaker processor than the i3-3220. The Acer and Cyberpower computers have a processor with stronger multithreaded performance but weaker single threaded performance. For most games, you're concerned with single threaded performance on 2 cores.

Unfortunately, its difficult to compare graphics performance of integrated graphics. Passmark's benchmark list is mediocre, but it has the most cards.
7850 - 3260 points
7770 - 2162 points
Gateway 7540D - 533 points
Acer 7350 - 333 points
Cyberpower 6670 - 1051 points

Here's a computer at ~$550 with Windows 8 included. No monitor or peripherals.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G2120 3.1GHz Dual-Core Processor ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock H77M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card ($125.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Gamma Classic (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $535.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-15 17:29 EST-0500)

[MCMXCIX]

The Gateway computer has a weaker processor than the i3-3220. The Acer and Cyberpower computers have a processor with stronger multithreaded performance but weaker single threaded performance. For most games, you're concerned with single threaded performance on 2 cores.

Unfortunately, its difficult to compare graphics performance of integrated graphics. Passmark's benchmark list is mediocre, but it has the most cards.
7850 - 3260 points
7770 - 2162 points
Gateway 7540D - 533 points
Acer 7350 - 333 points
Cyberpower 6670 - 1051 points

Here's a computer at ~$550 with Windows 8 included. No monitor or peripherals.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G2120 3.1GHz Dual-Core Processor ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock H77M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card ($125.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Gamma Classic (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $535.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-15 17:29 EST-0500)

That is probably what I'm going to get, assuming I don't get the job or she just takes forever to call back. I have two final questions, though. Btw, thank you for all your advice, you've been really helpful.

1) If I'm able to scrounge up $90 more (I have a savings bond that won't mature for 25 years, so I might as well spend it now), where would you suggest it should go into? I'd rather have better gaming performance than resolution, so a monitor can wait.

and 2) If I were to buy all of those parts, would I have to buy any tools, accessories (other than an anti-static wristband) or heatsink compounds or anything like that to put it together?

[yurano]

1) If I'm able to scrounge up $90 more (I have a savings bond that won't mature for 25 years, so I might as well spend it now), where would you suggest it should go into? I'd rather have better gaming performance than resolution, so a monitor can wait.

and 2) If I were to buy all of those parts, would I have to buy any tools, accessories (other than an anti-static wristband) or heatsink compounds or anything like that to put it together?

1) Actually, with a 7770 you'd probably max out performance at your current resolution.

For performance, you'd upgrade your CPU and GPU. Going from a i3-3220 from the G2120 for $20 more, you get hyperthreading which is pretty big when you're doing things in the background while playing games. With the extra $70, you would also upgrade the 7770 to the 7850 for $40 more (the XFX 7850 is on sale with the $20 MIR).

Some other options:
- Get a SSD 120-128GB $90-100, Recommended: Samsung 840 > Samsung 830 > OCZ Vertex 4 > Crucial M4 = Corsair Force GT = Kingston Hyper 3K
- Increase RAM to 8GB for $10 more http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233144
- Upgrade HDD to 1TB for $10-15 more http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western...drive-wd10ezex
- Get a nicer case
- 1366x768 monitors are available for about $90, not much of an upgrade over 1024x768 though

2) You actually don't need an anti-static wristband. The recommended method of preventing static is to discharge yourself onto the computer case before you start. I would also add that you probably don't want to be walking around on carpet with shoes on, as most Americans do, because it creates a charge. I've built a couple of computers and disassembled my laptop several times and have not shocked anything. I feel like its a waste of money, but its up to you.

Since you'd be using the Intel stock heatsink, it already comes with some thermal compound applied. Aftermarket coolers come with their own thermal compound as well. While thermal compounds are relatively cheap $5-10, they're more for overclocking.

The only tool you need for assembling a computer is a standard size (home improvement) Phillips screwdriver. I have no evidence to back this up, but you'd probably want to avoid magnetic screwdrivers, so dollar store screwdrivers work great.

[MCMXCIX]

1) Actually, with a 7770 you'd probably max out performance at your current resolution.

For performance, you'd upgrade your CPU and GPU. Going from a i3-3220 from the G2120 for $20 more, you get hyperthreading which is pretty big when you're doing things in the background while playing games. With the extra $70, you would also upgrade the 7770 to the 7850 for $40 more (the XFX 7850 is on sale with the $20 MIR).

Some other options:
- Get a SSD 120-128GB $90-100, Recommended: Samsung 840 > Samsung 830 > OCZ Vertex 4 > Crucial M4 = Corsair Force GT = Kingston Hyper 3K
- Increase RAM to 8GB for $10 more http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233144
- Upgrade HDD to 1TB for $10-15 more http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western...drive-wd10ezex
- Get a nicer case
- 1366x768 monitors are available for about $90, not much of an upgrade over 1024x768 though

2) You actually don't need an anti-static wristband. The recommended method of preventing static is to discharge yourself onto the computer case before you start. I would also add that you probably don't want to be walking around on carpet with shoes on, as most Americans do, because it creates a charge. I've built a couple of computers and disassembled my laptop several times and have not shocked anything. I feel like its a waste of money, but its up to you.

Since you'd be using the Intel stock heatsink, it already comes with some thermal compound applied. Aftermarket coolers come with their own thermal compound as well. While thermal compounds are relatively cheap $5-10, they're more for overclocking.

The only tool you need for assembling a computer is a standard size (home improvement) Phillips screwdriver. I have no evidence to back this up, but you'd probably want to avoid magnetic screwdrivers, so dollar store screwdrivers work great.

Alright, I'll probably do the CPU and GPU upgrade in addition to more RAM. I don't really need that much space on my hard drive. Again, thank you very much for your help.

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 04:28 PM ----------

1) Actually, with a 7770 you'd probably max out performance at your current resolution.

For performance, you'd upgrade your CPU and GPU. Going from a i3-3220 from the G2120 for $20 more, you get hyperthreading which is pretty big when you're doing things in the background while playing games. With the extra $70, you would also upgrade the 7770 to the 7850 for $40 more (the XFX 7850 is on sale with the $20 MIR).

Some other options:
- Get a SSD 120-128GB $90-100, Recommended: Samsung 840 > Samsung 830 > OCZ Vertex 4 > Crucial M4 = Corsair Force GT = Kingston Hyper 3K
- Increase RAM to 8GB for $10 more http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233144
- Upgrade HDD to 1TB for $10-15 more http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western...drive-wd10ezex
- Get a nicer case
- 1366x768 monitors are available for about $90, not much of an upgrade over 1024x768 though

2) You actually don't need an anti-static wristband. The recommended method of preventing static is to discharge yourself onto the computer case before you start. I would also add that you probably don't want to be walking around on carpet with shoes on, as most Americans do, because it creates a charge. I've built a couple of computers and disassembled my laptop several times and have not shocked anything. I feel like its a waste of money, but its up to you.

Since you'd be using the Intel stock heatsink, it already comes with some thermal compound applied. Aftermarket coolers come with their own thermal compound as well. While thermal compounds are relatively cheap $5-10, they're more for overclocking.

The only tool you need for assembling a computer is a standard size (home improvement) Phillips screwdriver. I have no evidence to back this up, but you'd probably want to avoid magnetic screwdrivers, so dollar store screwdrivers work great.

This is the setup I picked after upgrading the CPU, GPU, RAM, and switching the case since it didn't have a front USB 3.0 port.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($114.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock H77M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $609.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-15 19:26 EST-0500)