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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    They will alienate a big part of their playerbase if they do this.
    And possibly bring a larger portion of players that previously quit, back to the game. Character progression and the feeling of growing in power is way more important to a larger playerbase than spending 2 hours farming and being done forever with gear at max level.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I personally think it sounds like a great decision and so long as the armors extra power is only in effect while within the instance is a great idea and i see only good things for it....
    So let me get this correct; in your opinion, it's a great idea to add post level cap, linear gear progression in the Guild Wars franchise?

    You are expressing a viewpoint by which you are saying there is no philosophical or design contradiction or hypocrisy in this design mode. Yes?

    This is what you are saying flatly.

  3. #83
    Durz, where are you getting the "only in new dungeon" idea? Because I've seen zero mention of that anywhere. What I do have is it comes from the dungeon, and it's explicitly stated as "more powerful than exotics".

    And to anyone else that wants to point out "only slightly"? Let me pull an equivalent response here, and why that answer of yours can go to hell: It's "only slightly" different between t12 and t13 gear. Or t13 and ht13 gear. "Slight" is still escalation. And escalation in a system praised for not having vertical progression is a major slap in the face.

    That ArenaNet would appear to go against this is valid reason to be upset. And for MarkyMark over there to shift to onus onto players for reading something completely contrary to why we play the game in the first place? Yeah, that's not professional in any environment. "It's his personal account" means nothing as a developer, he's still speaking (as a condescending prick) from a standpoint of a developer for the company itself. That stuff isn't cool for Blizzard (Jay "Fuck That Guy" Wilson), it's not cool for anyone.
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  4. #84
    Deleted
    His Name sounds german...

    Edit.
    ah, Kerstein is german community rep. this explains it.
    Last edited by mmoc5babf89286; 2012-11-12 at 10:23 PM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    And to anyone else that wants to point out "only slightly"? Let me pull an equivalent response here, and why that answer of yours can go to hell: It's "only slightly" different between t12 and t13 gear. Or t13 and ht13 gear. "Slight" is still escalation. And escalation in a system praised for not having vertical progression is a major slap in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It doesn't matter if the gear is only good in the instance. Not sure why folks are seeing that as some sort of "out", it's totally irrelevant. (Edit: If it's even true.)
    All of this. Both rock solid posts.

    On a personal note: interesting watching all this unfold today. Some people don't seem to get as to why this should offend if it ascended armor turns out to be linear gear progression. They are in it for the "fun", so to speak.

    Very depressing.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Sojou View Post
    And possibly bring a larger portion of players that previously quit, back to the game. Character progression and the feeling of growing in power is way more important to a larger playerbase than spending 2 hours farming and being done forever with gear at max level.
    There are games that do, and will always perform better, power progression (or your gear treadmills) better than ArenaNet games. Those folks who who come back will only leave again after a week. It will be a huge mistake on ANets part if they try to cater to that kind playerbase. Then you are competing directly with the wows/rifts/swtor/eq2 of the world and that has proven to be a largely failed endeavor unless you are World of Warcraft.

  7. #87
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    So let me get this correct; in your opinion, it's a great idea to add post level cap, linear gear progression in the Guild Wars franchise?

    You are expressing a viewpoint by which you are saying there is no philosophical or design contradiction or hypocrisy in this design mode. Yes?

    This is what you are saying flatly.
    No what I'm saying is if they allow gear progression for that ONE instance and that progressed gear is only in that ONE instance it's great, if its NOT for that ONE instance I want none of it at all.

    @Kel I heard it thrown around the official forums by a few people and am just hopin it's true...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    No what I'm saying is if they allow gear progression for that ONE instance and that progressed gear is only in that ONE instance it's great, if its NOT for that ONE instance I want none of it at all.
    So as long as it's ONE instance, it's okay to have bad design [contradictory] or do a 180 on the premise of the series. Gotcha.

  9. #89
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    So as long as it's ONE instance, it's okay to have bad design [contradictory] or do a 180 on the premise of the series. Gotcha.
    They want GW2 to have something for everyone, and so far they really only are lacking in the mindless gear treadmill runners, throw them a bone, give them 1 stupid instance where they can get infusions in gear that you get better ones at higher lv so they can feel like they're constantly stronger, and how they have set the instance up all they'd need to do is throw more dungeon segments and boss fights in there to keep them happy.

    I personally think the dungeon would be fun regardless of if it had infinite scalin or not, but think it'd be more fun for some if they get a carrot held infront of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  10. #90
    I am Murloc! Ravenblade's Avatar
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    I've been postulating myself that it is sort of dungeon-based gear-boost thing as well. I am not sure whether that's the case but seeing all this treadmill/linear progression postulation on the forums I'd think it's fair to think of what else could it be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corros View Post
    His Name sounds german...

    Edit.
    ah, Kerstein is german community rep. this explains it.
    Explains what?
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  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    There are games that do, and will always perform better, power progression (or your gear treadmills) better than ArenaNet games. Those folks who who come back will only leave again after a week. It will be a huge mistake on ANets part if they try to cater to that kind playerbase. Then you are competing directly with the wows/rifts/swtor/eq2 of the world and that has proven to be a largely failed endeavor unless you are World of Warcraft.
    In the MMO market, you are always competing with WoW and that playerbase.

    Despite the sales of the game, Anet may very well be seeing a declining activity level - causing them to rethink their stance on end-game content.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I personally think the dungeon would be fun regardless of if it had infinite scalin or not, but think it'd be more fun for some if they get a carrot held infront of them.
    Whatever happened to "you shouldn't need to have a carrot guiding you on what to do, but to find something fun just for its own sake"?

    This was their mantra, all through development. Or is it complete bullshit?
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Sojou View Post
    In the MMO market, you are always competing with WoW and that playerbase.

    Despite the sales of the game, Anet may very well be seeing a declining activity level - causing them to rethink their stance on end-game content.
    So would you rather have a loyal and dedicated fanbase, albeit not as many people, or do you want a bigger influx of people that ultimately ends up leaving the game within a few weeks for the next mmo to hop to.

  14. #94
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Whatever happened to "you shouldn't need to have a carrot guiding you on what to do, but to find something fun just for its own sake"?

    This was their mantra, all through development. Or is it complete bullshit?
    How you and fencers aren't grasping this I beyond me it's in ONE instance that's infinite!! If you want to grin endlessly to get past wave 10 more power to you but those extra progression stats if you don't want to chase a carrot fine! Do it! But you don't get past wave 10 in an INFINITE AND RANDOMLY GENERATRD INSTANCE

    In other words YES there's hypocritical progression I'm one area, this progression is 100% optional! Because its as I said in ONE area, it's essentially an illusion Kel, which being a Mesmer you should know all about.
    Last edited by Durzlla; 2012-11-12 at 10:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  15. #95
    I get what you are saying Durzlla. But they could have easily put this "challenge" mode of dungeons without the added gear progression.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    How you and fencers aren't grasping this I beyond me it's in ONE instance that's infinite!! If you want to grin endlessly to get past wave 10 more power to you but those extra progression stats if you don't want to chase a carrot fine! Do it! But you don't get past wave 10 in an INFINITE AND RANDOMLY GENERATRD INSTANCE
    apart from "you don't get it", this post is unfollowable. We should try again, this time so everyone (myself included) can follow along. I'll start:

    "So the design mantra of 'You shouldn't need a carrot telling you what to enjoy, just do it because it's fun' is really just bullshit?"

    Now you respond. Coherently, please.
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  17. #97
    NINE mini dungeons, a new zone, pvp map, infusion armour - this is a lot of content for free! thank you Anet.

    looking at infusion armour its not a pvp buff but more like those potions you take -10 damage against ghosts etc. not a damage buff against players.
    Last edited by MrSerious; 2012-11-12 at 10:58 PM.
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  18. #98
    Pandaren Monk Beefsquatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Whatever happened to "you shouldn't need to have a carrot guiding you on what to do, but to find something fun just for its own sake"?

    This was their mantra, all through development. Or is it complete bullshit?
    Guess they learned that it doesn't work?

    The "fun" in mmo's, imo, has always been progressing your character. That kind of ends a few weeks after hitting 80 at the moment. PvE wise that is.

  19. #99
    I am Murloc! Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Whatever happened to "you shouldn't need to have a carrot guiding you on what to do, but to find something fun just for its own sake"?

    This was their mantra, all through development. Or is it complete bullshit?
    I agree that departing from this will be highly controversial not to say potentially detrimental. It does however hint that given the massive complaints about lack of power-based progression and raids caused them some sort of philosophical crisis. Paired with their constructive criticism filter in their Suggestion forums that must have got them thinking. It wouldn't be the first game to turn away from their initial philosophies though. Also I want to add that criticial thinking about their own philosophies can be a gamble but is part of the iteration process.

    Also the points brought forward about GW2 not being stat-based are very much spot on and I am personally agreeing with them because I did buy this game under the premise of a lack of linear and infinite stat progression after all. I am however not a person who's not willing to agree to some sort of consensus as long as it's not ending in a slippery slope towards mainstream with their standardized treadmill systems. Hence why I am holding back with my outrage and people like to be outraged these days. Wait and see I'd say.
    Last edited by Ravenblade; 2012-11-12 at 11:01 PM.
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  20. #100
    Next thing they will reveal...raiding.

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