So where are the panda's on pandaria then?

[Shampro]

According to the RPG book, which is not considered to be canon, the Panderan are originally from Kalimdor.

It also claims they were friends of the Night Elves until they became obsessed with the Well, at which time they broke ties and moved to the current isle of Pandaria.

Well everything (or mostly) everything was Kalimdor at some point, until the Elves started to mess with Magic, yada yada. But i would imagine or bet they originted from Ursoc which is an ancient, or another ancient which hasnt been stated directly yet. My bet would honestly be Fulborg's which are also as old as Trolls.

[Deleted]

Yep, Tauren actually were present at the War of The Ancients.

And the Lorewalker hand in for Yungol shows that they were a tribe of nomadic Tauren hunters who got trapped on Pandaria when the Sundering happened.

[Trassk]

Wrong. The tauren predate both the arrival of the Titans and the Well of Eternity. They were most likely created by an unnamed bull ancient, similar to how the quilboar were created by Agamaggan.

Hee, excuse me?
Azeroth was said to be a chaotic world ruled by the old gods and the elemental lords. The titans came, cleaned it up, locked the old gods below the earth and elemental lords in there prison domains, gave azeroth balance, and created the well in the center of it all. The tauren do not predate the titans cleaning up the world.

[Static Transit]

Hee, excuse me?
Azeroth was said to be a chaotic world ruled by the old gods and the elemental lords. The titans came, cleaned it up, locked the old gods below the earth and elemental lords in there prison domains, gave azeroth balance, and created the well in the center of it all. The tauren do not predate the titans cleaning up the world.

http://www.wowpedia.org/World_of_War...lume_2_Issue_1

Read the "Lore Information" section.

[Grocalis]

Hee, excuse me?
Azeroth was said to be a chaotic world ruled by the old gods and the elemental lords. The titans came, cleaned it up, locked the old gods below the earth and elemental lords in there prison domains, gave azeroth balance, and created the well in the center of it all. The tauren do not predate the titans cleaning up the world.

Just because the Old Gods ruled does not mean other creatures couldn't exist at that time. Newer lore actually implies that the Old Gods spent most of their time fighting eachother then worrying about the rest of the planet. Trolls, Aqir and Tauren all predate the Titans.

[Golden Yak]

Right here:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7228/ianwow023.jpg

Don't like it myself. I preferred it back when it was all weird races that pre-dated the Titans - aqir, faceless, and trolls. Apparently the furbolg predate the Titans as well and the pandaren predate the furbolg, so who knows how they came to be. Don't like that either, but it was from the RPG books originally so maybe it's non-canon. I'd be much happier with a Panda ancient.

Y'know, the original chinese mythology about the four gods that protected the four cardinal corners of the land actually had a 5th god, who guarded the center - a yellow dragon. We've already got a serpent guardian in the MoP version, but perhaps a 5th guardian of another sort still waits to be discovered. Giant panda august celestial, perhaps..?

Rest of the journal entries are here:
http://www.wowpedia.org/User_talk:Co...ebeard_journal

I'd frankly like to know where the animal Ancients figure into things as well - did they arise before or after the Titans? Does their rise have anything to do with the Well? Were they around when the Old Gods were running the place?

[Deleted]

Hee, excuse me?
Azeroth was said to be a chaotic world ruled by the old gods and the elemental lords. The titans came, cleaned it up, locked the old gods below the earth and elemental lords in there prison domains, gave azeroth balance, and created the well in the center of it all. The tauren do not predate the titans cleaning up the world.

You're 100% right, and the other guy is probably also right, because it happened during different times in Azeroths lifespan.

Chaotic / Old God ruled Azeroth > Titan cleared the place, enprisoned the Elementals along with them and appointed the NOTE(!) most sentinent life-form as guardians (dragon aspects) >>>>>>(a lot of stuff happened here)>>>>>> several 100 thousend years later the Well of Eternity exploded >> 10,000 years later we're here.

[Kaleredar]

Well for that matter, where are all the monkeys that turned into hozen? Not a single monkey on the entirety of Pandaria (Though their are a few gorillas in jade forest.) There are several bear "spirits" wandering the wilds of Krasarang (southwest of Nessingwary's expedition) and Jade forest (near the waxwood,) yet not a single living bear to be found on Pandaria.

The questions are endless...

[Deleted]

See the waters of the Vale and Well of Eternity as a evolution speed up, rather than an instant transformation into a perfect being. It is clear that some creatures on Pandaria got more in touch with the water than others, but I doubt that Pandaren, Mogu or Klaxxi were transformed by them. Taking this as an argument, the process of being affected by the waters takes several 10,000 years.

[Dreogan]

snip.... the process of being affected by the waters takes several 10,000 years.

Aren't the mantid vale evolved aqir though?

And doesn't one of the mogu lore points state that they were made larger and more intelligent by the proximity of the vale?

[Deleted]

i wouldnt find it strange if the pandaren were shaped out of a furbolgs by the mogu.
it certainly wouldnt be the only race the reshaped.
saurok were made out of basilisks and the grummles out of troggs.
so since it aint clear where they came from this is a valid option.

[Deleted]

Aren't the mantid vale evolved aqir though?

And doesn't one of the mogu lore points state that they were made larger and more intelligent by the proximity of the vale?

Nope, according to http://www.wowpedia.org/Mantid

I think the only reason why Mantid became so much more intelligent compared to Qiraj and Nerubians is this behaviour:

"Every mantid generation, the young hatch in incredible numbers and then swarm toward the rest of Pandaria, devouring anything in their path. Only the strongest return. Although the ancient mogu managed to protect their lands by building a gigantic wall between themselves and the mantid, the generational swarms require an all-hands defense of the wall or the very heart of Pandaria will be lost"'

As far as I understood, the Aqir ceased to exist 6,000 years before the Sundering happened. While every sister race of the Aqir evolved differently, the Mantid are the most sentinent of them because of the reasons pointed out above.

[Jervaise]

pandas do not exist in the lore.

I know this cause my guild was forced rename in the start of cataclysm due to having panda in its name, which is not a part of lore apparently.

then they release pandaland

[Boogums]

Hee, excuse me?
Azeroth was said to be a chaotic world ruled by the old gods and the elemental lords. The titans came, cleaned it up, locked the old gods below the earth and elemental lords in there prison domains, gave azeroth balance, and created the well in the center of it all. The tauren do not predate the titans cleaning up the world.

Yes they do. I mean, you can SAY they don't, but that just makes you wrong. The Old Gods came to Azeroth AFTER the Titans had already left. The Titans then came BACK to Azeroth and imprisoned the Old Gods because if they killed them, then everything affected by the Curse of Flesh would die.

The Tauren existed before the Emerald Dream, which means before Ysera, which means before Titans. REGARDLESS of any of that shit. They weren't cows that evolved because of the Well of Eternity (your initial point). They were created by a spirit animal.

[Idoru]

Which, I think, is his point. Did ALL the Murlocs of Pandaria suddenly become Jinyu? Then why couldn't all pandas had become Pandaren aswell?

During the daily Angler quest Jagged Abalone you will sometimes see a baby murloc escape from the clam shell.

[Deleted]

pandas do not exist in the lore.

I know this cause my guild was forced rename in the start of cataclysm due to having panda in its name, which is not a part of lore apparently.

then they release pandaland

Highly doubt that.

[Deleted]

Yes they do. I mean, you can SAY they don't, but that just makes you wrong. The Old Gods came to Azeroth AFTER the Titans had already left. The Titans then came BACK to Azeroth and imprisoned the Old Gods because if they killed them, then everything affected by the Curse of Flesh would die.

While this was true at some point, this version got reversed into: "Old Gods were there before Titans arrived" - http://www.wowpedia.org/Old_gods

[Boogums]

While this was true at some point, this version got reversed into: "Old Gods were there before Titans arrived" - http://www.wowpedia.org/Old_gods

No, that says that the Old Gods were on Azeroth before the Titans came back to stop them. Wowpedia (a fansite, I remind you) is wrong. The Old Gods were able to corrupt the Earthen before the Titans showed up to stop them. How exactly did the Earthen get there if the Titans never visited Azeroth before the Old Gods?

[Kaleredar]

Yes they do. I mean, you can SAY they don't, but that just makes you wrong. The Old Gods came to Azeroth AFTER the Titans had already left. The Titans then came BACK to Azeroth and imprisoned the Old Gods because if they killed them, then everything affected by the Curse of Flesh would die.

In this instance, it is YOU that is wrong. The titans found Azeroth when it was in the clutches of the old gods. The old Gods and titans duked it out, the titans then struck down the old gods, killing at least Y'shaarj, believed they had killed C'thun, and imprisoned N'zoth and Yogg-saron. The Titans banished the Old God's Elemental Lieutenants (Ragnaros, Therazane, Neptulon, and Al'akir) to the Abyssal plane.The titans, thinking everything hunky dory, "civilize" Azeroth by placing the Vrykul, Earthen, Giants, and Mechagnomes to watch over Azeroth. They notice, however, that the old gods have begun to spread the curse of flesh, and upon further investigation, find that they can't completely remove the old gods without destroying Azeroth. They re-strengthen their defenses by placing down the watchers and appointing the Dragonflights, and then depart from Azeroth to continue spreading rainbows and sunshine throughout the universe.

If you wont accept WoWpedia, try in-game dialogue, from Kil'ruk of the Klaxxi:

When the usurpers came - the ones you call "Titans" - Y'shaarj was destroyed.

He didn't say "when the titans came back."

Or maybe "The fall of Gurubashi" tablet.

But the Krakken are old, very old. They remembered when the land was first born from the sea.

They remembered when the Old Ones ruled and when the Travelers came and cast them down. They remembered when magic was new.

[StationaryHawk]

No, that says that the Old Gods were on Azeroth before the Titans came back to stop them. Wowpedia (a fansite, I remind you) is wrong. The Old Gods were able to corrupt the Earthen before the Titans showed up to stop them. How exactly did the Earthen get there if the Titans never visited Azeroth before the Old Gods?

As far as I'm aware, the Titans never returned after the Earthen were corrupted by the Curse of Flesh. As it goes, the Old Gods were there first, the Titans arrived and beat them down, imprisoned them, and then set up the world the way they wanted it. Then, after they left, the Old Gods began to taint it from their prisons.

If the Titans had come after the Curse of Flesh was put into place, they would have cured it. It's already been proven that it can be removed, as the quest involving the Mechagnomes in Borean Tundra showed us.