Welfare Epics

[Jaylock]

So you're mad at the color or the item link? If it were i489 gear and the link was blue, that would make you happy?

Not mad, just thought its worth discussing. I think epic quality items should be harder to obtain, but thats just my opinion.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 05:33 PM ----------

Actually, you also could get epics fairly easily in the late Vanilla model.

Dungeon Tier 0.5

Actually, Wrong.

Dungeon 0.5 took a lot of skill to overcome the challenges necessary to obtain them. Each peice was based off a quest associated with upgrading your dungeon 0 set.

[Grim Reaper]

nah epic quality also [s]has a factor in stat budget.

Not since last exp. Now, if you check this sample link you can check that the budget is standar for each iLevel, the only thing that changes is how well it is itemized.
I used a ilvl range from 372 to to 419 because it shows an interesting mix of green, blue and epic items from this and last exp. The only exception to this rule are legendaries, apart from that, you can check this rule for all items added since last exp for any ilvl, slot and quality.

[Jaylock]

Anytime there is a post like this it means one thing... The OP here has an e-peen problem. I find it to be quite pathetic.

No e-peen problem at all. Do you have an inferiority complex because you have a hard time obtaining welfare epics now?

[Moxal]

What are you mad about? Why is me asking about the current state of how easy it is to obtain epic items something you take offense to? Its like I have personally assaulted you and you are making a scene out of it. By the way, you also have the ability to ignore other posters and not post in their threads, Darthsis even commented to you in this manner.

Obtaining gear has always been about grinding.

-Grinding raids to get DKP (etc) to spend on loot.
-Grinding dungeons/raids to get badges/tokens/points to spend on loot.
-Grinding dailies for rep just to spend gold/points on loot.
-Etc

Shoot, if anything, it is slightly harder to get epics than it has been for a while because of the daily/rep requirement for valor gear.

This is a tired argument and should have been retired the moment transmog was released. Want to look different or unique? Transmog.

Beyond appearance, what does it matter if someone else has epics or not? I don't understand the hyperbole that people often repeat about "back in <insert speakers favorite time period>, people would inspect others and be awed by their epics." People don't run around inspecting you for reasons other than appearance (or maybe a giant HP pool or something).

Just let the poor horse die, until the next thread on this topic pops up.

[Jaylock]

It's never been hard to get epic gear, you know. From badges in BC to emblems in Wrath to JP/VP of Cata/MoP, I've never had a problem gearing everyone up.

I just wish people would drop the stupid "welfare epics" crap. It's not welfare epics. All the best gear in the world doesn't make you a good player. You still have to actually play your class right.

Why was the term coined in the first place if there wasnt some sentiment that it was easy to obtain epic gear? From justice badges in late TBC, to honor grinds in Wotlk, there have always been ways to get epics that take little to no skill to obtain. The proliferation of such ways has been growing astronomically since then.

[MasterHamster]

Let's take a different approach.

Epics only drops from the last boss, of the current tier, on 25man heroic.

Doesn't make a damn difference about itemlevel or anything, but atleast there'll be some prestige in having purple instead of blue text.

[Leonard McCoy]

Molten Core never was hard. What was hard was getting 40 players together, and then having at least 20 of them have any semblance of skill with their class. Most people at that time had no clue how to play the game.

and dealing with bugs, and shitty mechanics and shitty specs and shitty tuning. The boss mechanics themselves were ridiculously easy.

[Darsithis]

Why was the term coined in the first place if there wasnt some sentiment that it was easy to obtain epic gear? From justice badges in late TBC, to honor grinds in Wotlk, there have always been ways to get epics that take little to no skill to obtain. The proliferation of such ways has been growing astronomically since then.

Okay, well, "welfare epics" is I suppose acceptable, if only people realize that owning epics doesn't make you a good player. Too often I see the two connected: "OMG SCRUBS GET WELFARE EPICS NOW?? THEY'RE JUST LIKE ME!". They fail to realize that all the epics in the world mean nothing if someone can't do the job required of them in a dungeon or raid.

So honestly I don't care how you get epics or even how easy it is. Just that with them you do your job right.

and dealing with bugs, and shitty mechanics and shitty specs and shitty tuning. The boss mechanics themselves were ridiculously easy.

Absolutely. That was the problem. Bad tuning (C'thun in AQ) with horrible bugs

[Condemner]

Vanilla says hi.

Quite true, but this discussion is useless nonetheless since it's nog going to change, which is for the better. Stupid thing is, if they just change the lowest ilvl epic gear per tier in a blue item with the same stats, people would not be complaining.... I don't get why this is still an issue for some people, turning purples into blue's isn't changing anything.

[Leonard McCoy]

Doesn't make a damn difference about itemlevel or anything, but atleast there'll be some prestige in having purple instead of blue text.

I find this particular notion interesting. Who exactly are you getting prestige from? Why do you care? Of what benefit is it to you? Do you think others care? Conversely does it hurt the prestige if I have an epic of lower Ilvl, let's say 10 ilvl lower? Or say the difference bteween heroic DS gear and normal/valor vendor gear ilvl?

[Deleted]

obviously you weren't in there when it first released...

and on topic, this game is welfare epics now. Outside of heroic raids and High end arena, what gear is hard to get?

If you call it "hard" to have most in your raid suck so bad they can't run out of anything that resembles fire, okay it was sort of hard occasionally. But in the actual sense of the word, no, MC was NOT hard in the release.

[Jaylock]

OP thannks for bringing this to our attention...NOBODY since wotlk ever thought of it !......

Seriously how long will this:welfare epics shit go on ????

If you absolutely want to feel different...Raid in greens and outdps those welfare epic'ed baddies............

I have never called anyone a baddie, I just have started a discussion on how easy it is to obtain epic quality gear. I think there are great players all over, even ones who obtain welfare epics, but dont you think the bar should be raised on obtaining these epics? If it was, then it wouldnt be referenced to as welfare epics.

[tennesseej]

Cant we just have a nice civil discussion on the topic?

Civil discussion won't happen if they aren't started in a civil manner.

When your topic is named "Welfare Epics" you are immediately driving it towards a negative tone.

If you had simply said "It seems to me Epics are easier to come by than they used to be, do you guys think that is good or bad for the game" you would have a lot more civil discussion.

[mittacc]

Vanilla says hi.

If I recall correctly I got epic bracers lvl 35-ish and the imovable object at 55-ish. And I was a total scrub back then, didn't even make it to 60 before wotlk :P (started late vanilla)

[PetersenIII]

My Ret Pally friend who's still in green and pulls DPS on par with an Affliction Lock or Mage in Epics because he's skilled says Hi.

And you're judging this DPS based on what, minute long "Heroic" (or normal, since he's in greens?) fights where his ZOMGWTFPWNBBQCDs are up for half the fight? Also, must be an absolutely terrible mage or lock. I know I don't play Ret Perfectly, but I do pretty well and a half-decent mage in better gear will handily kick my ass.

[Jaylock]

Seeing as how it is the team that succeeds, not one player, your ignorance astounds me.

The problem with your logic here is that you think that automatically everyone (in a general sense) on that team are being carried. Thats just plain ignorant, and no logic whatsoever. The likelyhood of the raids these days succeeding when one player in a 10 man raid dies is slim. Same for 25 man, once 1 or 2 people die, shit starts hitting the fan. Or have you not raided recently?

[Mawnix]

And you're judging this DPS based on what, minute long "Heroic" (or normal, since he's in greens?) fights where his ZOMGWTFPWNBBQCDs are up for half the fight? Also, must be an absolutely terrible mage or lock. I know I don't play Ret Perfectly, but I do pretty well and a half-decent mage in better gear will handily kick my ass.

Actually based on the first 4 fights in MoguShan Vaults plus Elegon

[Condemner]

What they could do to get everyones epeen going, is give all difficulty's a different colour of gear. Say, lfr is light blue, normalmode is purple and hcmode is red. everyone happy?

[MasterHamster]

Why people feel strongly opposed to the term is because it was a common complaint about the game losing its spirit.
Classic? Epics was rare. Not because of difficulty, complex execution of boss fights, but because the game was broken. There was elitism that carried over to BC.
Yeah, Karazhan was also filled with welfare epics. Oh how many threads we had about how scrubs doing 10mans was getting epic gear. Preposterous!

But it was alright, because due to shitty design, and without different raidsizes, the vast majority of players never got past Karazhan anyway.

People are sick and tired of discussing the abundance of epics because it no longer matters. The game evolved from having only good players getting epics at all, to one where only those could attain the top level gear. But for whatever reason the tunnelvision on the purple itemname is still there. Look at itemlevel, because that's what matters.

[zephid]

Epics should only drop from raidbosses on normal/heroic difficulty imo.