Why do we have to save the orcs?

[leaks]

Night elves summoned demons into the world and shattered the whole damn continent cleaning up their mess. Then recently some of them even joined in with Deathwing and Rag to end the world. Dwarves released Ragnaros from his prison and worked for him for years to bring about the end of the world. Humans handed their own kingdom over the to scourge and tried to end the world. See the pattern? Why haven't we killed them off? Could it be because the actions of a few do not equal the actions of the a whole race?

[Grocalis]

What I find funny at the moment is that Garrosh is a Mag'Har, an uncorrupted Orc, yet he is doing this.

Many people don't seem to realize this, but the corruption only enhanced a drive that was already there. Orcs were always about conflict, but back in the old days conflict was treated with more respect. To a young orc, hunting and defeating a creature much bigger and stronger then you was a right of passage, and defending your clan from other orc (or ogre) clans was the highest form of honor. The Burning Legion only took that drive, and fueled it through manipulation and fear. The demon blood only made it even stronger. The "Bloodfury" was always part of the orcs.

They even hint to this back in BC, when you do the quest for Saurfang the Younger. It goes to lengths to show that after losing all his friends to a broken attack, that his blood was boiling over with rage until justice was carried out.

Garrosh has the problem of being his father's son, and Grom was well-known even before the corruption to be a violent, reckless warrior, that may have even killed his own father to become chieftan. It was only through age and wisdom, plus the crushing defeat of the Old Horde, that tempered Grom's old ways, and even then only barely. Garrosh does not have the luxury of that wisdom.

[Deleted]

Many people don't seem to realize this, but the corruption only enhanced a drive that was already there. Orcs were always about conflict, but back in the old days conflict was treated with more respect. To a young orc, hunting and defeating a creature much bigger and stronger then you was a right of passage, and defending your clan from other orc (or ogre) clans was the highest form of honor. The Burning Legion only took that drive, and fueled it through manipulation and fear. The demon blood only made it even stronger. The "Bloodfury" was always part of the orcs.

They even hint to this back in BC, when you do the quest for Saurfang the Younger. It goes to lengths to show that after losing all his friends to a broken attack, that his blood was boiling over with rage until justice was carried out.

Garrosh has the problem of being his father's son, and Grom was well-known even before the corruption to be a violent, reckless warrior, that may have even killed his own father to become chieftan. It was only through age and wisdom, plus the crushing defeat of the Old Horde, that tempered Grom's old ways, and even then only barely. Garrosh does not have the luxury of that wisdom.

Right. There's a reason the Horde version of Heroism is called Bloodlust. I always found that to be a pretty good fit.

[leaks]

Many people don't seem to realize this, but the corruption only enhanced a drive that was already there. Orcs were always about conflict, but back in the old days conflict was treated with more respect. To a young orc, hunting and defeating a creature much bigger and stronger then you was a right of passage, and defending your clan from other orc (or ogre) clans was the highest form of honor. The Burning Legion only took that drive, and fueled it through manipulation and fear. The demon blood only made it even stronger. The "Bloodfury" was always part of the orcs.

This is another good point and a lot of people do seem to be confused by this. Orcs didn't sit around camp fires singing songs until the Legion showed up. They were "peaceful" in the sense that they didn't recklessly try to conquer the world for power and glory. However they have always been a warrior race, they love battle, they live for it. They have short tempers and love to fight, their shamans and elders kept that more primal nature in check through wisdom. They lived a spartan like life style of constant marshal and physical training. Strength and battle prowess are held with the highest regard. Even Saurfang (Captain Wisdom of the orcs) said:

An orc - a true orc warrior - wishes for one thing: To die in the glory of battle against a hated enemy.

[Deleted]

An orc - a true orc warrior - wishes for one thing: To die in the glory of battle against a hated enemy.

I've never really understood that mentality, because it infers losing.

[Maximus Testiculos]

I do not hate orcs i just hate how they are written. Whenever there is a fight, some character comes and says that we always need orcs to save the world. I did not hear anyone saying we need trolls,nerubians,ogres,kobolds,gnolls,etc...Why can't alliance look at orcs as they look at other enemies? They have no qualms about destroying whole troll communities to take their lands, but when it comes to orcs they get merciful,or told to be merciful. Why could not those other races fight against legion?
Orcs caused much more harm for them than any other race in Azeroth. They kill trolls for little aggression ,they kill furbolgs for their tea. It seems like an orc warrior hacks my character while he is shouting 'you need me to fight the legion,pig.' Well, i could need all those other races too,but my character killed them,left their home in ruins, why should orcs get an exception to everything just because we might need them to fight the legion? It is like a free out of jail card for them. This time they look like just another aggressive tribal race that we kill in hundreds everyday. We lessen our chance against legion by killing those races yet we never feel remorseful or think a second at all.

[Grocalis]

I've never really understood that mentality, because it infers losing.

Depends on what you consider "losing". A single soldier being killed does not equal a war lost.

It was shown in Rise of the Horde that when elders grew so old they would likely pass in the near future, they would often go on warbands with the younger warriors, to take part in battles with ogres or other enemies. They wouldn't hold back during the conflict, but the intention of them being there is so that while they are old and weak, they would be more likely to be killed and have an honorable death in battle, then simply passing while laying sick on top of a bedroll. One of the elder shaman, the one that was Geyah's teacher, is killed during one of these.

[Deleted]

Depends on what you consider "losing". A single soldier being killed does not equal a war lost.

It was shown in Rise of the Horde that when elders grew so old they would likely pass in the near future, they would often go on warbands with the younger warriors, to take part in battles with ogres or other enemies. They wouldn't hold back during the conflict, but the intention of them being there is so that while they are old and weak, they would be more likely to be killed and have an honorable death in battle, then simply passing while laying sick on top of a bedroll. One of the elder shaman, the one that was Geyah's teacher, is killed during one of these.

I just think that, if I have an enemy that I hate so much that I want to kill him, I'd rather achieve that goal than to fail.

[Deleted]

There's a reason the Horde version of Heroism is called Bloodlust.

You got that backwards. Heroism didnt exist until BC.

And bloodlust is an old wc1 ogre spell that carried over.

Rise of the horde tells us that the orcs rarely warred with one another. Humans on the other hand fought plenty of war (though not neccesaily among themselves)

[leaks]

I just think that, if I have an enemy that I hate so much that I want to kill him, I'd rather achieve that goal than to fail.

They do intend to win, it's just that if they do die it's considered a good death. The most honorable way to die. A warrior who grows old becomes a burden to the clan. Most orcs could not stand to be a detriment to their people and would rather die fighting than become weak and useless.

[Trassk]

You got that backwards. Heroism didnt exist until BC.

And bloodlust is an old wc1 ogre spell that carried over.

Rise of the horde tells us that the orcs rarely warred with one another. Humans on the other hand fought plenty of war (though not neccesaily among themselves)

you know whats funny, you made me think. Whenever discussing the orcs and his past people, usually alliance, keep trying to label the uncorrupted orcs (before the legion) as bad because there clans sometimes faught, even when they held clan meetings and festivals, proving they were not mindlessly trying to kill one another..

And YET, if you look at the dwarves and there history, the three main clans have been at war and been trying to kill each other for generations, worse then the orc clans, and yet for some reason this gets overlooked and dwarves are ok?

[Nathane]

I've been wondering the same. The orcs keep causing far more death, bloodshed and destruction than what they "help" to avert. Other races could deal better with the Legion and other threats, if they wouldn't constantly need to keep half of their armies watching their backs against orcish treachery. In Icecrown the orcs were vile enough to attack the back of an Alliance army that was fighting the Scourge and was about to win the battle - until the orcs ensured that the day was lost, for both of them.

Gahmuret Do you even know the lore behind that at all or just watched the cut scene? The Horde and alliance stood side by side and fought the LK. It was a rogue band of undead that attacked US both.

[ghostblade]

What I find funny at the moment is that Garrosh is a Mag'Har, an uncorrupted Orc, yet he is doing this.

the reason why the Mag'har orcs are shown as 1 of the more.... bloodthirsty and warfare of the orcs is because they have not seen nor are keep the legacy of the corruption with them. There brown skin shows them as uncorrupted. While green orcs stil no what the reason is for there green skin.

So yea thats the reason why mag'har's maybe look a bit more crazy in time of warfare.

[Trassk]

the reason why the Mag'har orcs are shown as 1 of the more.... bloodthirsty and warfare of the orcs is because they have not seen nor are keep the legacy of the corruption with them. There brown skin shows them as uncorrupted. While green orcs stil no what the reason is for there green skin.

So yea thats the reason why mag'har's maybe look a bit more crazy in time of warfare.

Urm... no.

The Mag'har orcs are a group of orcs who, at the time the orc race was corrupted by the legion, these few orcs were considered to weak or frail to serve in the orcs army, so they were cut adrift by the rest of the horde, one of whom was Garrosh. It was even shown in beyond the dark portal when the remaining orcs, who were being chased down by the alliance across draenor, when they came to nagrand and found the mag'har, thinking they could force them into joining there army to beat the alliance, what they found was the mag'har orcs, suffering from a pox virus, puking up blood and unable to fight, to which the green orcs cast off again with disgust at there weakness (while Garrosh cried for his daddy i might add).

And the green skin. The orcs green skin came because as the warlocks tampted with fel magics, and corrupted the land and air around the orcs (you see the result of this in hellfire peninsula) the fel taint in that area slowly tainted the orcs skin colour to, as a scene between durotan and draka who found there brown skin pealing away to reveal the green skin under it.

[Penguintamer]

Because it's not 'every orc in existence' that is causing trouble in MoP? Is it that hard to figure that one out? It's Garrosh and some Orcs.

And it's not even the same orcs as the ones who committed any other past atrocities. Most of them are of the newer generation that missed all that.

[Deleted]

They do intend to win, it's just that if they do die it's considered a good death. The most honorable way to die. A warrior who grows old becomes a burden to the clan. Most orcs could not stand to be a detriment to their people and would rather die fighting than become weak and useless.

Why is it a good death to die in combat. Think about what more you could achieve if you lived. And it's not just old people, who die in combat. And old, weak people don't have to be useless and a burden. They can still guide the young with wisdom.

[checking facts]

the darkspear trolls had a second chance when they went from cannibalistic savages to what they are today after thrall saved them from murlocs.

the blood elves had a second chance after velen reignited the sunwell.

the gilnean people (worgen) had a second chance when varian let them rejoin the alliance after they had abandoned them (do remember gilneas abandoned the alliance in WC2 and didn't give a shit about lordaeron being destroyed in a zombie apocalypse in WC3, they just hid behind their wall and let shit happen outside.)

night elves had a second chance even though their nobility once tried to summon sargeras to azeroth.

the forsaken had over 9000 chances and they are still doing shit lol (the alliance never gave them a second chance, but the horde gave them many)

goblins had a second chance even though they'd sell their moms for a choccolate bar. do remember their leader tried to kill thrall.

in short: many races had second chances, not just orcs.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 11:53 PM ----------

I've never really understood that mentality, because it infers losing.

one day you just have to lose. imagine yourself, 90 year-old, going to war, as a soldier. do you think you'd survive?

that just means that to them, it's better to die in battle than to die sickly in bed.

[leaks]

Why is it a good death to die in combat. Think about what more you could achieve if you lived. And it's not just old people, who die in combat. And old, weak people don't have to be useless and a burden. They can still guide the young with wisdom.

Because they died fighting to protect their clan. When you fight a battle people are going to die regardless, their sacrifice of themselves over others is what makes it honorable. Some elders do stick around in old age for their wisdom, mainly shamans. Warriors on the other hand only know how to fight and once they can no longer do so they consider themselves useless and would prefer to die hacking down their enemies than lying around in bed being coddled.

[Yriel]

This is another good point and a lot of people do seem to be confused by this. Orcs didn't sit around camp fires singing songs until the Legion showed up. They were "peaceful" in the sense that they didn't recklessly try to conquer the world for power and glory. However they have always been a warrior race, they love battle, they live for it. They have short tempers and love to fight, their shamans and elders kept that more primal nature in check through wisdom. They lived a spartan like life style of constant marshal and physical training. Strength and battle prowess are held with the highest regard. Even Saurfang (Captain Wisdom of the orcs) said:

On the other hand you do have older Orcs, like Saurfang or Drek'Thar, who have traumatic remembrances and nightmares of the horrible things they have done and seen. So in that regard Orcs are just like Humans.

[Grim32]

I recommend reading the heart of war to see why Garrosh is the way he is, you can see why when you read here, how some small things lead him to be the way he is.

But don't act like the Racial leaders of the alliance are any better than him in the way they act towards other races...

-Grim