Content Gates Vs Gear Gates

[Cyclone Jack]

Yall are getting worked up for nothing and someone at Anet is laughing right now.

Except, we don't know how this new, unnecessary, gear will affect WvW. Will this new, unnecessary, gear be craftable? If not, there goes the whole "craft the best gear in the game". The whole "horizontal progression" idea was just thrown out the window. There is absolutely no reason to add in a new tier of armor, and now there is nothing stopping them from adding further tiers. And before you counter with "they won't need to" or "they said they won't" need I point you to the subject of the ongoing discussion.

[rylangel]

What they should have done is just completely removed stats from every piece of gear and just let your 80 attributes at level cap be the maximum power you would ever be at. After all, you're only in this for looking pretty and having a casual experience, right?

"Loyal fans" you are not loyal fans, especially with such a harsh outcry in the way you guys have been going on about nothing. "Well they lied to me!" Companies change. Never forget Anet is a company that is going to need to make money to continue. Just like Blizzard, Trion, Bioware, etc they have to try and appeal to the largest possible crowd. Die hard fans will support their company/game to their end. People who claim to be a loyal fan base, yet are up in arms ready to quit are not actually loyal fans. Their view of what they expected the game to be had changed, and it scares them.

The reason I play GW2 is not because there is no gear grind, not because it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. No. I play it because I enjoy a casual game with my friends, who will never exclude me based on my gear, time invested, or anything like that. If you have people like that in your life, they aren't your friends, and I suggest you go find some like mine. I play this game because after my $60, I can do whatever I want with the game. I can do casual dungeons on a naked character for all I care. I can level an alt. I can buy some gems and get some cool looking armor skins. THIS is why I play.

So long as Anet holds to the fundamentals that gear is not required to do everything in the game, there will be no problem. I personally have never seen X, Y, or Z difficulties of the same thing as content, nor will I ever. If you view it as such, that is your own problem, not mine, not Anet's, not Zeek's. Yours and only yours.

This whole Ascended gear situation hasn't made me want to stop playing the game. However, this so called "community" has. People arguing over what someone else finds fun. You don't find that fun and that's ok. I'm pretty sure Fencers made an argument regarding people finding the downed mechanic in dungeons as fun and that being ok. There is nothing fundementally wrong with this new change, again so long as they follow what they have been up to this point of being able to do everything with what you got.

sPvP is completely unaffected by this, WvWvW will remain largely unchanged because of its very zergy nature (In -MY- opinion). I'm fairly certain Anet doesn't even do any balancing around WvWvW anyway.

There is a reason for Anet doing this. You don't like it, some of you may quit and that's ok. You don't have a sub anyway, so if you leave and decide it's not so bad, you can come back. THAT is the beauty of this game. Overall, I think it's better you are not here, but if you leave and come back, alright. That's your perogative.

LF2M FoTM (dat acronym...)

Must link Ascended gear!!!!!

Welcome to 2007. GW2 now has hit and resist gear. And according to the blog post, I'm going to have to run these dungeons for WvW because that is not a small jump in stats that they showed.

They just did everything that they preached against. The lack of sub for PvP/WvW is the only thing keeping me around at this point because the PvE is lackluster and other games do it better. Before Ascended gear at least you knew you didn't have to do gear grinds...

You already have player-imposed gear restrictions on current content, so I don't see the point there.

I've even seen it so far as to be required to have full Exotics to run with a guild in WvWvW. Here's the beauty of WvWvW, you can follow around a zerg and still contribute even on a level 2 character with only their dagger weapon skills unlocked. This new gear set doesn't change that. Skill, subtlety, and numbers are still what will dominate WvWvW. Gear has never, and will never be in that equation.

[rylangel]

Except, we don't know how this new, unnecessary, gear will affect WvW. Will this new, unnecessary, gear be craftable? If not, there goes the whole "craft the best gear in the game". The whole "horizontal progression" idea was just thrown out the window. There is absolutely no reason to add in a new tier of armor, and now there is nothing stopping them from adding further tiers. And before you counter with "they won't need to" or "they said they won't" need I point you to the subject of the ongoing discussion.

Did they ever actually need to have stats on gear at all then? What if Ascended gear was in the game from D1 and they said they had plans of adding another tier of rarity in the future? You guys are crying over spilled milk that hasn't even been poured into the glass yet.

[Cyclone Jack]

This wouldn't be an issue if they stated, preferably before launch, that they had a tier of armor that would be between Exotic and Legendary that would be added to the game shortly after launch for a new mode of content that was not yet ready. They did not. Instead, players will have to get all new armor, then use Transmutation stones to keep the appearance that they want. With them doing this now, what's to prevent them from doing the same thing in a few months with another dungeon?

I'm just saying that it is unnecessary and a poor decision that undermines their own manifesto.

[Zeek Daniels]

LF2M FoTM (dat acronym...)

Must link Ascended gear!!!!!

Welcome to 2007. GW2 now has hit and resist gear. And according to the blog post, I'm going to have to run these dungeons for WvW because that is not a small jump in stats that they showed.

Pretty sure that was a small jump in stats. I am still not sure how Gear is a factor in WvW when your either getting hit by 20 players at once or using siege equipment. The only place it matter is small skirmishes and those dont provide an advantage for any server unless its over a supply camp.

This wouldn't be an issue if they stated, preferably before launch, that they had a tier of armor that would be between Exotic and Legendary that would be added to the game shortly after launch for a new mode of content that was not yet ready. They did not. Instead, players will have to get all new armor, then use Transmutation stones to keep the appearance that they want. With them doing this now, what's to prevent them from doing the same thing in a few months with another dungeon?

I'm just saying that it is unnecessary and a poor decision that undermines their own manifesto.

The bolded part is not true. All players will not want to do higher difficulties of FoM. Only players who want to do the higher difficulties will have to get all new armor. And at this point thats 2 rings and a backslot. And from personal experience i would love a place to get a backslot item cuz mines like level 25 or somthing.

[rylangel]

The bolded part is not true. All players will not want to do higher difficulties of FoM. Only players who want to do the higher difficulties will have to get all new armor. And at this point thats 2 rings and a backslot. And from personal experience i would love a place to get a backslot item cuz mines like level 25 or somthing.

I am quite sure the unlimited difficulty design of this dungeon will sprout some interesting challenge runs for people to brag and flex epeens about.

"YouTube: Fractals of the Mists Difficulty level 10 white gear only run"

[Lazuli]

Ascended gear is so retarded. I don't see why they need to add an entire tier of gear when they could, just like in GW1, allow us to literally infuse our armor that we already own. Catering to the WoW-babies (no offense) that feel their character isn't progressing in power is not the way to go. That is not Guild Wars. This is a very slippery slope... a sad one at that. RIP GW2 this makes me so emo. The amount of lies coming from ANet lately is just disappointing as fuck. When in doubt, turn your game into a WoW clone I guess. Hope all you kids that cried about progression and lack of end-game are happy you get your world of guildwars craft at last.

[Deleted]

The whole thing I loved about GW2 was that I never had to play with others and that I never had to rely on others to get best gear in game. I crafted most of it myself and it was pretty cheap and fast. This was the sole reason why I'm still playing it. But now they went and ruined it all, they FORCING me to play with others and farm some stupid dungeon if I want best gear, and yes I do, because it DOES fucking matters. I do NOT want to lose to somebody ever again in any game just because he has better gear. I might be wrong here or we misunderstood how it's gonna work, but EVEN if I can craft this new gear through mystic forge or buy it from TP, it's going to hit RIGHT in my wallet which is 100% reserved for legendary and which is still pretty empty despite my best efforts.
I'm not going to take this shit. If I can't have easy fast cheap best gear possible in game, I'll quit. I have a fucking xbox waiting for me in some shop, xbox with fuckloads of awesome games I have never yet played because I'm a pc gamer. But I suppose now that last good mmo turns into wow-like shit, I have somewhere to go.
GW2 is a casual game for casual players with life. Hardcore gear grind does not belongs here. Forced grouping with others not only doesn't belongs here, it pretty much ruins whole concept of the game. They could've AT LEAST made a proper lfg tool, if we'll have to run dungeons for best gear. But they not doing even that...

[mafao]

LF2M FoTM (dat acronym...)
Welcome to 2007. GW2 now has hit and resist gear. And according to the blog post, I'm going to have to run these dungeons for WvW because that is not a small jump in stats that they showed.

There are only two rings and one backpack. A 10% increase of stats on these 3 items is what, less then 1% of your current attribute score? Do you really think that 1% more life or 1% more power will be a significant advantage?

[Zeek Daniels]

@chrom who are you losing to? Why is everyone so concerned with gear in an MMO that does not require gear to experience all the content. You guys who praised GW2 for not having a gear ladder, and praised them for having content that was access-able to everyone. Are now critisizing them for adding gear that isnt required to complete content.

You guys are more concerned about gear than the actual content of the game. If a game came out that was purely cosmetic where gear had no stats and there was no character progression at max level, non of you would play it. No matter how many cosmetic sets they added, or how much they expanded the world, or how many dungeons they added. You would not do them because their isnt shiny stat increases at the end.

[Lazuli]

There are only two rings and one backpack. A 10% increase of stats on these 3 items is what, less then 1% of your current attribute score? Do you really think that 1% more life or 1% more power will be a significant advantage?

It doesn't stop there though, they set an entire set will eventually be in the game. And yes a set of ascended gear will be a significant advantage.

You guys are more concerned about gear than the actual content of the game. If a game came out that was purely cosmetic where gear had no stats and there was no character progression at max level, non of you would play it. No matter how many cosmetic sets they added, or how much they expanded the world, or how many dungeons they added. You would not do them because their isnt shiny stat increases at the end.

Oh I guess you're right, I didn't played Guild Wars for over 5 years... owait I did, and so did a ton of other people... just proved you wrong.

[rylangel]

The whole thing I loved about GW2 was that I never had to play with others and that I never had to rely on others to get best gear in game. I crafted most of it myself and it was pretty cheap and fast. This was the sole reason why I'm still playing it. But now they went and ruined it all, they FORCING me to play with others and farm some stupid dungeon if I want best gear, and yes I do, because it DOES fucking matters. I do NOT want to lose to somebody ever again in any game just because he has better gear. I might be wrong here or we misunderstood how it's gonna work, but EVEN if I can craft this new gear through mystic forge or buy it from TP, it's going to hit RIGHT in my wallet which is 100% reserved for legendary and which is still pretty empty despite my best efforts.
I'm not going to take this shit. If I can't have easy fast cheap best gear possible in game, I'll quit. I have a fucking xbox waiting for me in some shop, xbox with fuckloads of awesome games I have never yet played because I'm a pc gamer. But I suppose now that last good mmo turns into wow-like shit, I have somewhere to go.
GW2 is a casual game for casual players with life. Hardcore gear grind does not belongs here. Forced grouping with others not only doesn't belongs here, it pretty much ruins whole concept of the game. They could've AT LEAST made a proper lfg tool, if we'll have to run dungeons for best gear. But they not doing even that...

If you're losing to a +15 power increase, then I hate to say it's not the gear you are losing to...

Why do you want the best gear in the game? Are you out in EB soloing points?

Guess what bud, you are going to have to make sacrifices monetarily for your legendary even if they didn't add a new tier of gear, but added something else you would want. That's the sacrifice yuou make for a legendary. You either sit on other shit you want, or you sit on your legendary for awhile longer.

Quit, go play your Xbox. Guess where GW2 will still be while you're away. That's right, here, still free.

[Zeek Daniels]

Oh I guess you're right, I didn't played Guild Wars for over 5 years... owait I did, and so did a ton of other people... just proved you wrong.

Oh and what content was held from you in those 5 years of GW1? What content is being held from you in GW2? Gear does not equal content. If it did games would just throw tons of gear at you till you had so much you wouldnt know what to do with it. I on the other hand would rather play a game with a progressing story, new areas, and new characters. Not gear set A, set B, set C.

No content is being held from you in this patch. The only thing you cant get if you dont try is the shinys at the end of an infinite tunnel; and to be honest the only thing those shinys do is make that tunnel even longer.

When GW2 doesnt allow you to do a dungeon as a fresh level 80, then you have the right to complain. Until then let the game work its magic.

[SamR]

If they're trying to appeal to WoW players, I'm not sure putting in resistance gear is the way to do it. There are very few people still playing WoW who want anything to do with resistance gear. It's popular with the "man, vanilla WoW was so awesome" forum warriors who haven't played in years, but not with the current playerbase.

[Deleted]

The whole thing I loved about GW2 was that I never had to play with others and that I never had to rely on others to get best gear in game. I crafted most of it myself and it was pretty cheap and fast. This was the sole reason why I'm still playing it. But now they went and ruined it all, they FORCING me to play with others and farm some stupid dungeon if I want best gear, and yes I do, because it DOES fucking matters. I do NOT want to lose to somebody ever again in any game just because he has better gear. I might be wrong here or we misunderstood how it's gonna work, but EVEN if I can craft this new gear through mystic forge or buy it from TP, it's going to hit RIGHT in my wallet which is 100% reserved for legendary and which is still pretty empty despite my best efforts.
I'm not going to take this shit. If I can't have easy fast cheap best gear possible in game, I'll quit. I have a fucking xbox waiting for me in some shop, xbox with fuckloads of awesome games I have never yet played because I'm a pc gamer. But I suppose now that last good mmo turns into wow-like shit, I have somewhere to go.
GW2 is a casual game for casual players with life. Hardcore gear grind does not belongs here. Forced grouping with others not only doesn't belongs here, it pretty much ruins whole concept of the game. They could've AT LEAST made a proper lfg tool, if we'll have to run dungeons for best gear. But they not doing even that...

my lvl 69mesmer kills lvl 80 exotic geared daily solo in EB puzzle so if you guys are 80s with exotic complaining against someone with full ascalon gear or whatever its called

never grinded for any gear still enjoying it grinding aint a must only if you want to


do you even play the game?



sry for my bad english

[Zeek Daniels]

If they're trying to appeal to WoW players, I'm not sure putting in resistance gear is the way to do it. There are very few people still playing WoW who want anything to do with resistance gear. It's popular with the "man, vanilla WoW was so awesome" forum warriors who haven't played in years, but not with the current playerbase.

Theres multiple types of infusions so its not just Agony mitigation. Blog says theirs going to be Offenseive, Defensive and Omni infusions. So by the looks of it you can customize your gear somewhat.

I also think Resists in WoW were encount specific. Which is why its not popular today. You dont want to farm gear for a single encounter and then never use it again. Thats not the case here as Agony mitigation is only relevant to this dungeon. One would assume the Offensive and Omni infusions only play a role in this dungeon as well. So this is a self contained thing. Also since they will be expanding the dungeon it wont feel like the 1 off fights from WoW where the gear is never used again. The gear will be used infinitely provided you want to keep increasing your difficulty.

[Sylvanie]

Theres multiple types of infusions so its not just Agony mitigation. Blog says theirs going to be Offenseive, Defensive and Omni infusions. So by the looks of it you can customize your gear somewhat.

And how on earth is this going to be any better? If infusions are anything but Agony mitigation, i.e. increases to existing stats, then I fail to see how this going to alleviate concerns about a gear treadmill; if anything, it's going to make these concerns more justified. It would also introduce other problems that gear spirals typically create, such as outgearing existing content.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 11:11 PM ----------

Oh this is causing a mandatory gear treadmill? Please tell me how i need to get Ascension gear in order to do any of the current content or do the 9 new mini dungeons in the fractals of the mists?

Please read ArenaNet's post in its entirety rather than trying to parse that one excerpt a bit too literally.

Quote: "The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too."

[Fencers]

Wow... Content difficulty settings gates are now content gates?

Of course it is. And it's directly contradiacotry of all 5 of the games shipped with the Guild Wars name on it.

Up till now the limiting factor in content in access and difficulty was largely tied to character level and skill. Level 20 armor was the best there was and despite additional, harder content-- that's all you needed.

In later expansions Anet even gave in on the conceit of character level with the 'just fuck it we'll act like your 20 anyways" buffs.

GW2 up till now followed the same model simply extrapolated out over 80 levels versus 20.

Now this is both a shift in series design and stated intention. Gear treadmill is not the concern, those worried about that are idiots frankly. The renouncement of 'skill over gear' is hypocritical and totally 180 degrees from the series up to this point.

What limited you in Urgoz or Arah was largely your ability to play well. There was no gear based artifice. A linear, post level gear progression in a descriptively bimodal endgame has never once existed in the Guild Wars franchise up till now.

There was never even a an endgame in Guild Wars. The premise was false by reason true by marketing.

k fencers im reading the blog and im having trouble finding where it says they are gating content. Infact the only thing in the blog that has 'gate' in it was mitigate and i found that word 3 times. =O

"Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge."

"As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content."

"The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content)."

Paragraphs state the necessity of infused armor and that addition content will be coming with this infusion mechanic built in.

I would refer you to my earlier post w/r/t the validity of these "complimentary" items.

I really wish someone would answer my question about how they would design an infinite dungeon that actually keeps players playing.

As I told Durz, maybe an infinite dungeon is just a bad idea.

Maybe they could just have designed new dungeons. Ya'know, like other MMOs.

[Zeek Daniels]

"The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content)."

This part doesnt state that new high-level content requires ascended gear, but that that gear is a reward for doing that content.

It really just depends if their "new high-level content" means expansions on the Fractals dungeon, or other areas of the game. If its other areas of the game then yea we have a problem. If its limited to Fractals of the Mists, then im ok with it.

[Sylvanie]

This part doesnt state that new high-level content requires ascended gear, but that that gear is a reward for doing that content.

It really just depends if their "new high-level content" means expansions on the Fractals dungeon, or other areas of the game. If its other areas of the game then yea we have a problem. If its limited to Fractals of the Mists, then im ok with it.

How likely do you think it is that there will be tons of shiny new gear without accompanying content to use it for?