Protection Paladin Threat

[Reg]

Am I doing something wrong, or is threat as a paladin seem to be below that of other tanks mainly DKs. It seems that on both single target and aoe trash packs that my threat is falling behind. Granted, I'm not rocking the best gear, but I am hit/exp capped and even switched from Light's Hammer to Execution Sentence for single target, but I still get blown away by DK tanks. With other tanks, it's not as bad, but it just seems there is not much I can do unless I pop wings. It only seems to even out when vengeance has kicked in, perhaps paladin tanks just scale better with vengeance while DK initial burst threat tops us?

[GreatSageCorban]

It's hard to provide any recommendations without knowing your gear, or what environment specifically you're running into issues in.

[Granitefist]

My main is a pally tank, and have been tanking since I started in BC...I haven't had any issues, other than hunters with pets having growl on, and have actually been pulling off other tanks in LFR or on Sha. If you're having issues with mobs, make sure you're tab targeting around while tanking, not just focusing on 1 target, if you don't tab around on a large mob, then you will lose threat when dps aoe. Don't use focused shield unless you're tanking a boss...I have a stack of dust on me so I can actually swap out the glyph for the xtra dps on those fights. And make sure you're popping your avenging wrath and Holy Avenger (if you took that talent)

[Malthanis]

There's a lot that you're leaving out. What's your ability usage on a pull? Can you link your armory? Does this happen on a specific boss, or in general?

[Reg]

I'm not losing threat to dps, but to other tanks easily. We go to pull a pack of mobs where optimally we would each take half, but I seem to have it ripped right off me.

Gear isn't that great since I only have done LFR, but here is the armory. One major glyph is missing at the moment since I have been trying out different ones. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Regaud/simple

[Kildarien]

I've also been having issues keeping threat over my fellow tank, who's a bear, on large trash packs. I feel that Paladin AoE threat isn't as bursty as a bear's at least. Maybe I'm doing something wrong as well, but I don't have any issues with single target threat.

[Ninotchka]

Vengeance ramping often means that the first tank to get hit gets much bigger dps, which gets you into a self-reinforcing loop of lost threat. I'm doing all right if I remember to consecrate on pull and on cooldown and tab target things, but I have to pay attention or my DK partner yanks all the little stuff away.

[Deleted]

You're missing the expertise cap, but AoE burst threat is quite poor for paladins. For single-target I don't have a lot of problems, really. If you can't keep up with the aggro you'll be more and more behind due to the way Vengeance works... unfortunately.

[Jstang]

I have noticed tanking some raids that when I am tanking trash mobs before bosses in the raids I dont keep the aggro as well as warrior tanks as much on the mobs. But when it comes to tanking bosses other tanks actually have trouble taking aggro from me. I know I am not expertised capped atm but that will come with gear and time. I have no trouble keeping aggro on bosses what so ever.

[trystero]

Just agreeing with the others here. In trash pulls I have trouble holding aggro to my co-tank, but single-target (boss) it's no problem.

[Jstang]

Just agreeing with the others here. In trash pulls I have trouble holding aggro to my co-tank, but single-target (boss) it's no problem.

I am glad it is happening to someone else not just me

[Scinder]

Paladin single target threat is fine. AOE threat is another story. Monk and DK AOE threat is incredibly strong.

[Deleted]

don't let vengeance fool you ...

in a fight where the DK tank was hit by the boss for the last 20-30 seconds and you hardly got any dmg he'll have loads of vengeance while you have ZERO ...
if you taunt the enemy he'll still have LOADs of vengeance and you'll build yours up slowly ... that's the moment when he pulls aggro again.

i play a pala tank too and i don't have any threat issues at all ... i'm hit /exp capped and use mainly Lights Hammer, also for single target fights ...
i use Holy Avenger to start a fight ... that's quite nice because i can: -->

CS --> ShotR --> JD --> ShotR and so on

[casually]

pally aoe threat is kinda shitty.. u need to get hit hard first.. to build vengeance.. lay down consecrate and hor.. like mad.. that'll help.

[Simulacrum]

You can't beat blood DKs for burst aoe threat, at least as a paladin. With 6 runes up (and maybe 40+ RP and some vengeance from the previous pull) he can drop contagion then open up with up to 6 blood boils in a row (as a pack is about to die, a DK should be looking to turn all his frost/unholy runes into death for the next pull); 12 in a row if he feels like using Empowered Rune Weapon.

Monks are similarily trolly, throwing around their stupid ranged aoe threat barrels to gain initial threat then rendering you unable to do anything by outdamaging you with the vengeance they have built up from having everything beating on them, and warriors can just drop a mocking banner to make it impossible for you to do anything while it's up. I also see guardian druids blasting out 3-400k dps on the trash in Hof, so (not haing played one) I can only assume that they hold great aoe threat through sheer DPS alone.

Paladins have nice snap-aggro on 3 mobs... beyond that we kinda suck at it, lacking any kind of AoE-damage cooldown to pop on the pull for massive instant aoe threat (other than possibly Light's Hammer I guess, though I'm not sure how that works with threat, being a pet an all, and even it does its thing over 16 seconds rather than instantly).

You shouldn't be fighting with your co-tank, though... he should be letting you tank some stuff, for the sake of his own survival if nothing else. I see tanks dropping from 100% to dead in 2-3 seconds in LFR all the time, from taking on entire packs by themselves then getting stunned.

[Deleted]

i play a pala tank too and i don't have any threat issues at all ... i'm hit /exp capped and use mainly Lights Hammer, also for single target fights ...
i use Holy Avenger to start a fight ... that's quite nice because i can: -->

CS --> ShotR --> JD --> ShotR and so on

... What?

You definetely don't want to use Light's Hammer in a single target fight unless you ABSOLUTELY need the extra healing from it (seriously, you won't).
Also, don't... just don't use Holy Avenger offensively (especially to help grab aggro). Unless you need the extra cooldown, most of the time you'll want Divine Purpose instead.

[Deleted]

... What?

You definetely don't want to use Light's Hammer in a single target fight unless you ABSOLUTELY need the extra healing from it (seriously, you won't).
Also, don't... just don't use Holy Avenger offensively (especially to help grab aggro). Unless you need the extra cooldown, most of the time you'll want Divine Purpose instead.

The phrase raid utility springs to mind. LH is a valid raid cd and the damage difference between it and ES isnt mindboggling on single target fights.

Nothing wrong with using HA aggressively at the start - builds a nice aggro lead and long physical reduction buff on you from the get go so healers can chillax on tank healing for the first 30 secs. Agree on further uses it should be used at specific boss events and not just spammed on cd however.

Cant agree with the DP comment tbh - random procs and tanking arent best of friends imo, as such having HA as an extra guaranteed survivability cd is awesomesauce.

[Simulacrum]

Cant agree with the DP comment tbh - random procs and tanking arent best of friends imo, as such having HA as an extra guaranteed survivability cd is awesomesauce.

I don't know man. 25% isn't very random as far as 'random' goes (and in reality it's much higher than 25% anyway, since each proc can proc another proc, but don't ask me what it maths out to be cause I can't deal with that infinite probability math). The procs from DP often give me enough free shield uses that my uptime on divine protection is frequently doubled, and the uptime on the shield's protection is itself very high throughout all the fight as well.

I probably would go HA if I thought the extra cooldown was needed for a particular fight, but otherwise I roll with DP standard.

[smokii]

as far as i can tell from running as a monk tank with a pally tank, it's only initial snap threat building that seems to be the problem, sustained sinle target threat is fine, AoE snap threat, as always, is a bit shit.

but i guess it depends on your playstyle, i dont think i've ever seen my offtank use lights hammer, or the glyph of consecration that lets you target when you want it, when he's pulled AoE packs. but with an AoE threat monster running beside him, he doesn't really need to worry about it unless i die, in which case, he's always second on threat so they go straight to him.

it's a quality of life issue for paladin tanks for sure, but as long as you've still got more aggro than the dps, you'll be fine.

is popping wings + selfcast holy prism any good for snap threat? or would lights hammer be better? i might have to shout at my offtank a little

[Nairobi]

Having the same issues as above, especially on pulls with my co-tank as a monk or DK. With the changes to Keg Smash, it's not AS bad with the monk, but with the scaling of Blood diseases, it's still pretty noticeable with a DK partner.

Wings -> Judge -> AS -> Cons -> HotR as they get to melee seems to be decent for getting about half a pack. When doing Wind Lord last week, I had to actually have the monk hold off on KS's to let me get some adds, else I ended up frantically tab-taunting/chasing them while his vengeance rolled in.

I love vengeance, esp the way it works for us with our raid healing (95k HPS as a tank on Wind Lord, lolwut), but I agree that the positive feedback loop system we currently have seems to play favorites to DK/Monk on larger pulls. That said, with all the stunning trash in HoF, once the other tank goes down I get all the adds stuck to me like glue

Anyhow, glad to see it's not just me having these problems with large packs. And as stated, single target threat is fine/balanced.