Collegiate Edumacation

[ares1023]

We all know the issues concerning the US education system, particularly K-12. But many forget to mention College/University, I mean everyone pays into public education through taxes and such. But when you reach the holy grail of education, College/University, you start having to pay in a more direct manner. You not only pay thousands of dollars for this level of education, but you essentially become an employee of that College/University while also being a paying customer. You are then at the mercy of the professors at that point........excuse me I mean Doctors, that become your managers basically. Since they have that title, you should respect their "authoritay", abide by their rules since their are living Gods and we are mere mortals.

You go through college trying to hone your skills, and further develop as a person. When you are finally near the end of your college career, you realize that you have accumulated a massive amount of debt, and that you don't have a guaranteed opportunity for a job afterwards due to this poor job market in the US. You then realize that most of what you learned in College will not be applied later in life since most people do not end up in the career they envisioned anyway.

Now I am not trying to use a "woe-is-me" way of thinking, since everyone who goes to college experiences this, some worse than others. But my disdain for the College process, it's glorified meaning, overall lack in effectiveness, and the black hole it places it's college graduates in, has really hit a high as I am nearing the end of my second to last semester (in a SUNY college fyi).

We are the customers, these professors really are the employees of the college that should be servicing us in the best way possible so that we can learn what we need to learn for our particular major. We have to put up with at least four years of these over inflated ego's that they possess, pay for the ridiculously priced textbooks that you may not even touch throughout the semester I have taken several classes that do not pertain to my interests, outside of the general education requirements, because they are required to receive my degree. I have also taken several classes that my adviser said I must take, to then find out a semester or two later that they are not in fact required, and do not even help me fulfill any of the requirements for the degree. This is just a handful of complaints I have, and really don't feel like I need to express all of them to get my point across. I would like to see a healthy discussion about this topic, and want to see what everyone else thinks.

What do you all think needs to change? What doesn't need to change? What have you experienced? etc.

[OneSent]

I agree with everything you said. There is a lot of unnecessary BS in between the lines of what you are really aimming to accomplish in college/university nowadays.

But just about everyone else here on MMO Champ will say things like "life is hard, better get used to doing things you don't enjoy" or "education isn't all about learning just the skills of your trade but learning everything you can because it will make you a better person" blah, blah, blah.

I can't comment on what I think should or shouldn't be changed because I would go in and gut the entire system. None of it works, if I'm going to be completely honest.

[ares1023]

But just about everyone else here on MMO Champ will say things like "life is hard, better get used to doing things you don't enjoy" or "education isn't all about learning just the skills of your trade but learning everything you can because it will make you a better person" blah, blah, blah.

See I can agree with those arguments people make, when it pertains to K-12, not so with college.

[conscript]

We are the customers, these professors really are the employees of the college that should be servicing us in the best way possible so that we can learn what we need to learn for our particular major. We have to put up with at least four years of these over inflated ego's that they possess, pay for the ridiculously priced textbooks that you may not even touch throughout the semester I have taken several classes that do not pertain to my interests, outside of the general education requirements, because they are required to receive my degree.

100% agree. When I got a degree for accounting, I should not have been forced to take several science classes, diversity classes, and about a dozen other completely 100% useless classes that were written into the curriculum just as a way to ring me up several thousand more dollars in student loans and textbook costs. You should go to school and take classes for only what you plan on doing. Screw electives. Screw unrelated classes. If they are padding it just because of the requirements to graduate then all of those requirements should be shifted to classes you actually need, not totally worthless classes you are forced to take so you pick the one you enjoy the most or that won't make you want to die.

As for textbooks, I wish I was born a decade later, I really do. Instead of textbooks, everything is going to be digitized soon enough. The books will still be expensive, but they won't be the absurd expense they are now without being completely cracked down on by the government. Charging hundreds of dollars for a book that they then slightly alter every year to tank resell value is just a money making racket and nothing else.

[Spectral]

I'm very happy with my education and the "black hole" that I've been placed in. I went to one SUNY school for undergrad and another for grad school. I don't really understand many of the complaints. I liked my professors for the most part (I'm still in touch with one that taught my first class 15 years ago), graduated with reasonable loans, had a job lined up 6 months before I finished grad school, and I'm happy with the career I've got because of it.

The one thing I'm with you on is textbooks. They're a complete scam and should be done away with, there's absolutely no reason for physical textbooks to exist.

[conscript]

See I can agree with those arguments people make, when it pertains to K-12, not so with college.

Ya when its being paid for with my families tax dollars, super, make me a more well rounded individual. When I am shelling out thousands and thousands of my own dollars, don't force me to take classes you think might someday maybe matter. Times I have used the geography class I shelled out $1000 for in tuition and book? Zero and I didn't learn a single thing in there I didn't know in 7th grade.

[Obamatheone]

You go through college trying to hone your skills, and further develop as a person. When you are finally near the end of your college career, you realize that you have accumulated a massive amount of debt, and that you don't have a guaranteed opportunity for a job afterwards due to this poor job market in the US. You then realize that most of what you learned in College will not be applied later in life since most people do not end up in the career they envisioned anyway.

.

To be fair you don't have a job because you majored into some mickey mouse bull shit like art history a long with another horde of other coasting through. Go into STEM and you can't beat the jobs away with a stick, a big one!

Though I guess you could argue its the colleges fault for accepting so many people in these programs, and that argument does have quite a bit of merit. In the end though they are a business, and they want $$.


What is a SUNY school? I don't feel like using google.

[ares1023]

I'm very happy with my education and the "black hole" that I've been placed in. I went to one SUNY school for undergrad and another for grad school. I don't really understand many of the complaints. I liked my professors for the most part (I'm still in touch with one that taught my first class 15 years ago), graduated with reasonable loans, had a job lined up 6 months before I finished grad school, and I'm happy with the career I've got because of it.

The one thing I'm with you on is textbooks. They're a complete scam and should be done away with, there's absolutely no reason for physical textbooks to exist.

See I consider you very fortunate then lol, cause that has not been my experience, yes there are good professors out there that deserve praise, but there are many that bog down students with irrelevant work for the sake of doing it. Half my teachers don't even fully grade the papers I write, they read the intro and summary, then grade it. There are jobs out there now, but there aren't many that will pay well.

[Badpaladin]

Unemployment rate of college graduates is drastically lower than that of non-graduates. One of the reasons certainly is that they make you be a well-rounded student, able to contribute in more than just what your major emphasis was.

[Arlon]

I would suggest going into a European university if you want less bullshit and less loans. Especially something from Germany, France, England, Netherlands or Scandinavia. Getting a job in US might be tricky, but im sure that there are lots of US companies that need people in Europe or value education from those countries. Then again, you might not even want to go back to US.

[Obamatheone]

Ya when its being paid for with my families tax dollars, super, make me a more well rounded individual. When I am shelling out thousands and thousands of my own dollars, don't force me to take classes you think might someday maybe matter. Times I have used the geography class I shelled out $1000 for in tuition and book? Zero and I didn't learn a single thing in there I didn't know in 7th grade.

I personally think the whole concept of the well rounded student is a failed model, but at the very least it should be restricted to high school.

One thing I can suggest to any HS kids is to go to a Community College.
Its Cheap, you might even make money. If you have decent grades, you could even get a scholarship.
Its easier. The egos of the professor are much toned down, and the professors kind of understand that this is just a GE bullshit class for most. Not so for 4 year schools! Lots of professors treat their class like everyone is majoring in this shit, and its crazy important!

[ares1023]

To be fair you don't have a job because you majored into some mickey mouse bull shit like art history a long with another horde of other coasting through. Go into STEM and you can't beat the jobs away with a stick, a big one!

Though I guess you could argue its the colleges fault for accepting so many people in these programs, and that argument does have quite a bit of merit. In the end though they are a business, and they want $$.

Love how you assume I took general education or some weird major, I am in Business Administration; yes I know they are a business, but then why are we not treated like customers? Also, it's the fact that although you choose which college you got to, you are limited by how much you can afford, what their requirements are, and you really don't know if that college fits what you want to spend your money on until you actually attend it.

[Spectral]

Ya when its being paid for with my families tax dollars, super, make me a more well rounded individual. When I am shelling out thousands and thousands of my own dollars, don't force me to take classes you think might someday maybe matter. Times I have used the geography class I shelled out $1000 for in tuition and book? Zero and I didn't learn a single thing in there I didn't know in 7th grade.

This seems, to me, like a football player saying that they've never had to lift weights on the field, so weightlifting is obviously pointless.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 07:58 PM ----------

See I consider you very fortunate then lol, cause that has not been my experience, yes there are good professors out there that deserve praise, but there are many that bog down students with irrelevant work for the sake of doing it. Half my teachers don't even fully grade the papers I write, they read the intro and summary, then grade it. There are jobs out there now, but there aren't many that will pay well.

I wouldn't say mine pays well (at least for the degree it requires), but it's fine. There's plenty of jobs if you're in the right fields.

[Obamatheone]

This seems, to me, like a football player saying that they've never had to lift weights on the field, so weightlifting is obviously pointless.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 07:58 PM ----------



I wouldn't say mine pays well (at least for the degree it requires), but it's fine. There's plenty of jobs if you're in the right fields.

Pre-college you can be as rounded as you need to be.

So for crying out loud, stop with the everything is useful in some way argument. It is just utter non sense. Just because there may be some small merit for someone to take a class, does not make it justifiable to force students to take something that is mostly unnecessary.

You might have an iota of credibility if education was free, but its far from it.

[ares1023]

This seems, to me, like a football player saying that they've never had to lift weights on the field, so weightlifting is obviously pointless.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 07:58 PM ----------



I wouldn't say mine pays well (at least for the degree it requires), but it's fine. There's plenty of jobs if you're in the right fields.

Yea this is true, but does that mean you enter a specific major to get a job in a specific field to then not enjoy what your doing in life? I'm looking to do something in life that interests me, keeps me engaged so I continue to learn and love my life. I am not looking for some random job in some random field just to get good pay.

[Spectral]

You might have an iota of credibility if education was free, but its far from it.

Likewise, you might have an iota of credibility if, "I don't want to do it" was a real argument.

[nevermore]

University education is a massive global scam.
You spend 3-4 years of your life and ridiculous amounts of money on learning stuff that have absolutely nothing to do with anything you will ever do in your life, just so you get a piece of paper that is somehow required by employers (?)

It doesn't make sense. It's all about the money... Have you noticed that your professors make you buy the £200 textbooks (most probably written by them!) when there are other books with almost the exact same content for 1/5th the price? It's actually ridiculous.

education isn't all about learning just the skills of your trade but learning everything you can because it will make you a better person

Yep, that's what primary and high school are for.

I graduated from a Russell Group university in the UK (it's a similar thing to the Ivy League in the US) and I genuinely feel dumber than before. I can honestly say that it contributed absolutely nothing to my life in any way, and when you're trying to find a job the only thing employers give a sh*t about is your work experience (even if an internship).

This whole university hype... ugh. We're basically puppets being exploited by corporate greed.

[TCD4LYFE]

Credit Hours. Those SUCK. You need this many, this class counts as this much, and you need one of the classes in this category. Seriously, it needs revision. I am going into Health Education, I need so-and-so many hours to get my piece of paper.

I don't think I should be forced to take certain class, BUT I do think I should have to take some different classes than my Major. Now, sounds contradicting, but I had to take a creative class... apparently learning what music history and listening and identifying it is Art...I am AWFUL at it, to the point where I study for hours and cannot comprehend it. I am taking a Psychology...dat shit is interesting and I love it!

Less restrictions on what I can take and not being forced to take some classes is what I want. So...yeah

[Obamatheone]

Love how you assume I took general education or some weird major, I am in Business Administration; yes I know they are a business, but then why are we not treated like customers? Also, it's the fact that although you choose which college you got to, you are limited by how much you can afford, what their requirements are, and you really don't know if that college fits what you want to spend your money on until you actually attend it.

I wasn't talking about you, but students in general these days.

[Spectral]

Yea this is true, but does that mean you enter a specific major to get a job in a specific field to then not enjoy what your doing in life? I'm looking to do something in life that interests me, keeps me engaged so I continue to learn and love my life. I am not looking for some random job in some random field just to get good pay.

Yeah, I'd never tell someone to pick a field they don't like unless they literally didn't like any useful fields

Honestly, the unemployment rate among college grads is so low that you'll fine as long as you stick with it and put the effort in. You might have to do some crap you don't really want to for awhile, but it usually works out pretty well for bright people that do their best (or close to it).