Disc Set Pieces

[Venaliter]

CD off Penance is going to be more valuable than a couple of stats. You probably should be using Penance more often if you think it's not valuable. Glyphed Penance is amazing on so many fights.

I agree with Mazi on this one!

I didn't realize that, given secondary stat homogenization, people still somehow think that skipping set bonuses can be a net gain. I mean, what is the argument there?

There IS no argument, some people are so focused on BiS they actually forget what the hell they are gearing FOR. Sheer stupidity.

I almost never use Penance.

Whoa. It's too late now, too many people have already seen this :P

it's funny that we are fighting over penance, a spell we actually use, whereas the real f**k you to disc is the 2piece set bonus.

It's good for our Holy brethren. No big deal, really.

I've heard Prayer of Healing might not stack Evangelism, though.

I think it's a net HPS LOSS to try and stack Evangelism when you are spamming Prayer of Healing. Evangelism is only a net gain when you have time to stack it before the OMG SPAM SPAM SPAM stage, isn't it?

[Maleric]

I think it's a net HPS LOSS to try and stack Evangelism when you are spamming Prayer of Healing. Evangelism is only a net gain when you have time to stack it before the OMG SPAM SPAM SPAM stage, isn't it?

Probably, but on the flip side that means that it is in fact a net gain to cast Penance at times when big raid damage isn't going out. Which is most of the time.

[KaPe]

Probably, but on the flip side that means that it is in fact a net gain to cast Penance at times when big raid damage isn't going out. Which is most of the time.

It's generally easier to sneak in instant cast Holy Fire than channel entire Penance. And if damage is low enough that you can afford to do the latter, you're probably sitting at 5 stacks from Atonement healing anyway.

It's not a bad bonus, but currently, PoH spamming is pretty much the best thing Disc can do and set bonus doesn't really help with it. Now, sure, if you got 3 stacks from single Penance, it would be a great thing - but you don't, and that probably won't happen anyway.

[Maleric]

It's generally easier to sneak in instant cast Holy Fire than channel entire Penance. And if damage is low enough that you can afford to do the latter, you're probably sitting at 5 stacks from Atonement healing anyway.

It's not a bad bonus, but currently, PoH spamming is pretty much the best thing Disc can do and set bonus doesn't really help with it. Now, sure, if you got 3 stacks from single Penance, it would be a great thing - but you don't, and that probably won't happen anyway.

Holy Fire takes 1.5 seconds, Penance takes two. And Penance heals for more.

That minor correction aside, though, I think we agree that PoH is great HPS, at least when it's effective on four or five targets. What we don't seem to agree on is how that applies to this tier's actual fights. From what I've seen, most of them have relatively short windows of burst damage mixed in between longer periods of light and moderate damage. From an HPS perspective, casting Penance (and Holy Fire, PW:S for Rapture, and Prayer of Mending) on cooldown is usually HPS and HPM positive over straight PoH spam because PoH is only hitting a few people per cast. And casting Penance and Holy Fire is especially HPS and HPM positive because it gives you Archangel for when the big damage does land.

So don't use Penance on cooldown during Feng's Arcane Velocity and Earthquake or Elegon's burn phase. But do use it on cooldown outside of fight stages like those, especially since it gives you Archangel for when those stages to occur.

[mcbeefy]

the full 4 piece bonus + FDCL + DI + grace + flash heals, penances and shields... tanks everywhere think this thread is rediculous

[Deleted]

Whoa. It's too late now, too many people have already seen this :P

Don't worry, I won't take it back.
I feel like using PoH all the time with the occasional Holy Fire to stack Archangel is more than enough to negate almost the entire damage on the raid.
Using Penance is kind of useless if you're not healing the tank.

[Brauhm]

Holy Fire takes 1.5 seconds, Penance takes two. And Penance heals for more.

That minor correction aside, though, I think we agree that PoH is great HPS, at least when it's effective on four or five targets. What we don't seem to agree on is how that applies to this tier's actual fights. From what I've seen, most of them have relatively short windows of burst damage mixed in between longer periods of light and moderate damage. From an HPS perspective, casting Penance (and Holy Fire, PW:S for Rapture, and Prayer of Mending) on cooldown is usually HPS and HPM positive over straight PoH spam because PoH is only hitting a few people per cast. And casting Penance and Holy Fire is especially HPS and HPM positive because it gives you Archangel for when the big damage does land.

So don't use Penance on cooldown during Feng's Arcane Velocity and Earthquake or Elegon's burn phase. But do use it on cooldown outside of fight stages like those, especially since it gives you Archangel for when those stages to occur.

You do realize that with the buff to DA and the fact that over healing goes into DA that it doesn't matter if someone gets healed with PoH anymore as disc, I use it when everyone is at full for incoming damage considering I have a 82% DA off of every PH, double that if it crits.

And with how little mana it costs, my natural Mp5 and rapture on CD is enough to regen me through it, there is literally no need to ever not use prayer of healing unless you are directly tank healing, and I can't think of a fight this teir (mind you i haven't done terrace yet on my alt priest) in which you absolutely have to focus a tank.

[Maleric]

You do realize that with the buff to DA and the fact that over healing goes into DA that it doesn't matter if someone gets healed with PoH anymore as disc, I use it when everyone is at full for incoming damage considering I have a 82% DA off of every PH, double that if it crits.

And with how little mana it costs, my natural Mp5 and rapture on CD is enough to regen me through it, there is literally no need to ever not use prayer of healing unless you are directly tank healing, and I can't think of a fight this teir (mind you i haven't done terrace yet on my alt priest) in which you absolutely have to focus a tank.

That's definitely a great healing strategy for LFR. Not so great for content where you need to spend your mana efficiently or deal with damage spikes.

[Venaliter]

Don't worry, I won't take it back.
I feel like using PoH all the time with the occasional Holy Fire to stack Archangel is more than enough to negate almost the entire damage on the raid.
Using Penance is kind of useless if you're not healing the tank.

Penance is far better to use, then Holy Fire, for several reasons. 1) Penance heals for more AND stacks Grace. 2) Penance interacts far better with the 4 priest tier, which Holy Fire interacts with none at all.

Maleric was correct in calling this out, and I think you've see improvement if you changed Holy Fire to Penance glyph.

[Brauhm]

That's definitely a great healing strategy for LFR. Not so great for content where you need to spend your mana efficiently or deal with damage spikes.

How are you running out of mana?

Rapture on cool down gives me 26k mana back, we run a resto shaman so when he pops mana tide I get upwards of 60-70k mana back.

Innately I have 12k Mp5, plus sleeping potion, mind bender, arcane torrent, and hymn of hope, I never ever go oom.

I don't see how you're spending so much mana that you can't preDA the entire raid all the time.

Edit: I could understand if you're doing heavy heroics to change up healing, but most of us in the community aren't, you should take that into account.

[Airia]

Would be interested in seeing Brauhms armory. Are you healing 10 or 25?

[Brauhm]

Would be interested in seeing Brauhms armory. Are you healing 10 or 25?

10 man normal. My priest literally raids one night a week for two hours, it was the raids way of keeping me "involved" with raiding since some stuff came up and we couldn't raid anymore. I was a main raider in Endless Waltz on Illidan until about two months ago and we are currently 22nd on Illidan.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...pisky/advanced

Don't take my lack of kills as ignorant. Every fight I do the same healing strat and every time I come out on top by far. If you'd fancy I'll run logs next week to show exactly how I'm healing and that you can, in fact, spam PoH and not oom, as well as prioritizing it over single target spells.

Edit: this is my main

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rauhm/advanced

I'm also rather active in the warlock community, only coming here because I don't raid on my lock much anymore, just pvp.

[Maleric]

How are you running out of mana?

Rapture on cool down gives me 26k mana back, we run a resto shaman so when he pops mana tide I get upwards of 60-70k mana back.

Innately I have 12k Mp5, plus sleeping potion, mind bender, arcane torrent, and hymn of hope, I never ever go oom.

I don't see how you're spending so much mana that you can't preDA the entire raid all the time.

Edit: I could understand if you're doing heavy heroics to change up healing, but most of us in the community aren't, you should take that into account.

Wait what? How does suggesting a healing strategy to maximize HPM and HPS mean that I'm "running out of mana"? Casting PoH when everyone is at full health is not mana efficient because it means the spell is guaranteed to be mostly overhealing - the absorbs might not overheal, but the actual healing will. And it's also not good for HPS because it means that you won't have Archangel for when you actually do need to heal burst damage. Nevermind that it is in fact possible to go OOM spamming PoH nonstop, regardless of what you say.

And if you want to use an inferior healing strategy because you're doing easy content, feel free. I like to spam PoH in LFR and wrack up huge absorbs too. But that doesn't make it a good strategy.

[Brauhm]

Wait what? How does suggesting a healing strategy to maximize HPM and HPS mean that I'm "running out of mana"? Casting PoH when everyone is at full health is not mana efficient because it means the spell is guaranteed to be mostly overhealing - the absorbs might not overheal, but the actual healing will. And it's also not good for HPS because it means that you won't have Archangel for when you actually do need to heal burst damage. Nevermind that it is in fact possible to go OOM spamming PoH nonstop, regardless of what you say.

And if you want to use an inferior healing strategy because you're doing easy content, feel free. I like to spam PoH in LFR and wrack up huge absorbs too. But that doesn't make it a good strategy.

You said to maximize mana efficiency. But if you never run out of mana then mana efficiency becomes null and void.

[Dorfie]

It's hard to go OOM on 4/6 normal MV I agree. Spam PoH non-stop if you please.

[Maleric]

You said to maximize mana efficiency. But if you never run out of mana then mana efficiency becomes null and void.

If you play well you shouldn't run out of mana often and you should achieve that by paying attention to your mana before you run out of it. I guess you can also achieve that by sticking to LFR and the first few bosses in MSV, too!

[Deleted]

Penance is far better to use, then Holy Fire, for several reasons. 1) Penance heals for more AND stacks Grace. 2) Penance interacts far better with the 4 priest tier, which Holy Fire interacts with none at all.

Maleric was correct in calling this out, and I think you've see improvement if you changed Holy Fire to Penance glyph.

Actually I'm using both glyphs. I mean, come on, what are the alternatives?
I just use Penance while moving. I can snipe in a Holy Fire without even targeting a mob thanks to a macro - Penance not so much since it can be cast on friendly targets as well.
Seriously though... spamming PoH has become the main mechanic for disc again. Just take a look at the logs. Not a single priest on top is making frequent use of Penance and there's a reason why. It's efficient but if you're running out of mana you're obviously doing something wrong. Simple as that. If you don't need to stack Archangel PoH is the better option almost always.

[Brauhm]

Actually I'm using both glyphs. I mean, come on, what are the alternatives?
I just use Penance while moving. I can snipe in a Holy Fire without even targeting a mob thanks to a macro - Penance not so much since it can be cast on friendly targets as well.
Seriously though... spamming PoH has become the main mechanic for disc again. Just take a look at the logs. Not a single priest on top is making frequent use of Penance and there's a reason why. It's efficient but if you're running out of mana you're obviously doing something wrong. Simple as that. If you don't need to stack Archangel PoH is the better option almost always.

A little off topic but has anyone else gotten disconnected using the penance glyph. I would love to cast while moving but sometimes it DC's me and that's extremely problematic.

[Rorschachs]

How are you saving people that are dropping? by casting prayer of healing on 1 person? I think penancing into renew is one of the best things to do to heal one person taking damage, whether it is the tank or not. It is not really a great set bonus especially for 25 man but I like it and will be using it. I really hate 2 set bonus tho.

[Deleted]

You said to maximize mana efficiency. But if you never run out of mana then mana efficiency becomes null and void.

Mana efficiency is never null and void in a non limitless scenario. You cannot spam only PoH & rapture 100% of the time, it's an impossibility in our current gear level. You're also running with max 10k spirit, which means rapture is returning 20k mana, which is mana positive by only ~2k - not enough to run mana neutral spamming PoH.

Plus you're not even going to get highest HPS running with this strategy. You're far better using smite/penance when there is no raid damage & then stack aegis / pump out big heals when the damage actually appears.