Lyoness. Anyone ever really heard of them?

[StayTuned]

My cousin is totally into this cashback company Lyoness and he wants me to join.

Now, he kinda got me interested since they have Nelson fucking Mandela on board, gazillions of certificates and they seem to be a legit company. I first thought they are something similar to Payback.

However, after some in depth research and fighting through mumbo jumbo explanations and bogus drawings, I have kinda realized that this is basically a MLM system that depends on how many "friends you recruit", so that they go shopping and you profit from what they buy.

It is not a pyramid system, however.


If you never heard of them, trust me, it is no use asking what it is. I have never, ever in my entire life seen a system that complicated and shrouded in mumbo jumbo terms like Lyoness, but they have a user base and they are legit (in terms of... they are not operating illegal).

So I really can't make up my mind... give it a try, or bin it and try to talk my cousin out of it, too?

[Porcell]

The people who get rich are at the top. They get rich under the promise of making others rich.

It's a scam. Don't get involved. Tell anyone who is already involved that they are stupid.

[Deleted]

If they are offering a lot of reward for very little work, they are full of shit.

[Realsykes]

My cousin is totally into this cashback company Lyoness and he wants me to join.

Now, he kinda got me interested since they have Nelson fucking Mandela on board, gazillions of certificates and they seem to be a legit company. I first thought they are something similar to Payback.

However, after some in depth research and fighting through mumbo jumbo explanations and bogus drawings, I have kinda realized that this is basically a MLM system that depends on how many "friends you recruit", so that they go shopping and you profit from what they buy.

It is not a pyramid system, however.


If you never heard of them, trust me, it is no use asking what it is. I have never, ever in my entire life seen a system that complicated and shrouded in mumbo jumbo terms like Lyoness, but they have a user base and they are legit (in terms of... they are not operating illegal).

So I really can't make up my mind... give it a try, or bin it and try to talk my cousin out of it, too?

How is that not a pyramid scam?

[StayTuned]

Please people, I know this is MMO but comon, I cant just tell my cousin that he's stupid without providing info as to why he is stupid.

And Porcell, this is the thing that confuses the shit out of me. They are not a pyramid system. They have been tested by the Office of Fair Trading and they are a legal operating company. Which they wouldnt be if they are a pyramid.

Rich, according to the internet and their website, if you don't invest a lot of time ( and actually consume stuff from their "partner" stores ) you won't be making any money at all.

That's why I said please don't ask me how they work or anything else... I'm looking for someone who has experience with them to tell me if it's a safe thing to try out.

How is that not a pyramid scam?

Dunno. Really it screams pyramid to me, but according to various court decisions and consumer protection groups they are just fucking complicated, but not a pyramid.

[antonatsis]

well its simple actually,see what you gain and how you gain it.For instance i know a company that works the way you mentioned that company works but with house consumables that even if you dont know anyone you benefit by their lower prices at their products.If you give us some more details on what they offer we might help you deciding.

[StayTuned]

well its simple actually,see what you gain and how you gain it.For instance i know a company that works the way you mentioned that company works but with house consumables that even if you dont know anyone you benefit by their lower prices at their products.If you give us some more details on what they offer we might help you deciding.

I have spent hours and hours on the internet looking for this answer, and I was unable to find it.

Basically what I've understood so far is that they are partners with big consumer companies, such as BP, C&A, Walmart, bauMax, McDonalds etc (big names, btw...) and you gain a "discount" of 4-36% (that number is so fucking huge, I have no idea how that works out for them). Then something happens with this discount, something is being paid back to you, something goes to some kind of loyalty account and after some super complex space magic you make money with it if others also buy stuff and contribute to the "shared" loyalty account.

I study economics, I've seen quite some share of wannabe professional terms and expressions, but this takes the cake. I don't know if somebody without a PhD actually understands what's going on.

But why does it have millions of users and is ISO, TÜV and Leitbetrieb certificated?!

[Deleted]

If someone comes along and offers you magically high rewards for little to no investment, chances are they're full of crap.

And legally it's not a pyramid scheme if there is actual tangible merchandise. The money still moves up, however. And guess where you'll be. Not at the top.
Probably it work's like this.. you buy a certain amount of merchandise to resell and pay a chunk of your earnings to whoever is above you, who pays a chunk of his earnings to... etc.

---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:48 PM ----------

I have spent hours and hours on the internet looking for this answer, and I was unable to find it.

Basically what I've understood so far is that they are partners with big consumer companies, such as BP, C&A, Walmart, bauMax, McDonalds etc (big names, btw...) and you gain a "discount" of 4-36% (that number is so fucking huge, I have no idea how that works out for them). Then something happens with this discount, something is being paid back to you, something goes to some kind of loyalty account and after some super complex space magic you make money with it if others also buy stuff and contribute to the "shared" loyalty account.

I study economics, I've seen quite some share of wannabe professional terms and expressions, but this takes the cake. I don't know if somebody without a PhD actually understands what's going on.

But why does it have millions of users and is ISO, TÜV and Leitbetrieb certificated?!

From the website.....

Recommend Lyoness! As Recommender you will receive 0.5% of the purchase revenues generated by your new recommended Member (the so-called Direct Friendship Bonus). If this Member recommends Lyoness to a new Member, you will receive a further 0.5% of the purchase revenues generated by this new Member (the so-called Indirect Friendship Bonus)!

Ergo.. pyramid. If enough money goes around, it's feasible to think that they'll sell advertisement via a sub company or some other kind of sponsorate to keep the stores interested.

[StayTuned]

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=640882


This board here had the best discussion about it. But I was still unable to filter out wtf is going on, since they couldnt agree on anything

[MarizzaDraenor]

Well a friend of mine is into it and i got approached also in case i wanted to participate. from a quick check i did on the company Its a pyramid scheme and started to encounter legal problems in Germany/Austria and iirc Switzerland. The main problem is that you cant get out of it easily with a return of your initial deposit and even if you start getting a return it would take way to long to break even and if you ever manage it.

I would stay away. Company makes money, you dont or not enough to make it worth the investment.

Lyoness is actually the definition of a pyramid scheme. They have found ways to work around the legal details ofc but its 100% a pyramid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

"A successful pyramid scheme combines a fake yet seemingly credible business with a simple-to-understand yet sophisticated-sounding money-making formula which is used for profit. The essential idea is that a "con artist" Mr. X, makes only one payment. To start earning, Mr. X has to recruit others like him who will also make one payment each. Mr. X gets paid out of receipts from those new recruits. They then go on to recruit others. As each new recruit makes a payment, Mr. X gets a cut. He is thus promised exponential benefits as the "business" expands.

Such "businesses" seldom involve sales of real products or services to which a monetary value might be easily attached. However, sometimes the "payment" itself may be a non-cash valuable. To enhance credibility, most such scams are well equipped with fake referrals, testimonials, and information.

The flaw is that there is no end benefit. The money simply travels up the chain. Only the originator (sometimes called the "pharaoh") and a very few at the top levels of the pyramid make significant amounts of money. The amounts dwindle steeply down the pyramid slopes. Individuals at the bottom of the pyramid (those who subscribed to the plan, but were not able to recruit any followers themselves) end up with a deficit"

[Deleted]

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=640882


This board here had the best discussion about it. But I was still unable to filter out wtf is going on, since they couldnt agree on anything

People and companies shroud their activities for a reason - they don't want anyone to get the full picture. It means either it's unprofitable or simply illegal.

[antonatsis]

ok then look at it this way

IF you already consume what they offer and you actually save money,then being with them actually works for you
IF they deman for you to actuall pay something and you will eventually see that discount at the end of the month or something like that...then tread carefully.If its for 1 month check it out if its for more then dont touch it unless you have hard evidence that they are true to their words.

even in 5% its pretty big for a yearly discount.Remember if you actually save money and what you eventually get back is from that saved money then its all ok if there is something else then it might be a scam.

As for the way you make money its usually this way(btw iam not an economist but its simple logic in most cases)

You buy something with that 5% discount and you are finished IF you become a parthner,meaning that you must find new players for the game :P you will gain those money from the people you will bring.From the money you give to the products they sell after the discount the money takes a part of the pie(the actuall discount is larger)and from those money a portion is coming back to you,lets say 5% of what the person you brought will buy will be at your account.Now the extra acount that you said that will bring more money...well i dont know :P we need more information.Finally for all those certificates,keep in mind that companies like that have huge investing funds behind them(when they are legit :P when they are not they just lie :P )So taking those certifications is not that hard and there might be some trick on those certifications for instance they might have something from ISO but its not for their entire package,but they make it appear so.

---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:03 PM ----------

just saw their site and saw Mandela.Well they dont have him on board they just donate money in S.Africa as it seems.Which means that its easy to take a picture and market it.No one will deny something like this if it means that his community will be helped meaning its just marketing.

---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:07 PM ----------

and something else.Ask what you need to do to participate and if they ask for money you must have a time table of when your investemt will come back,based on your standards .Meaning that if you i.e go to McDonalds and eat 2 times a week,you must fix the numbers in that base.

[StayTuned]

Thanks guys so far. I guess the only thing that makes them special is that they are just the smartest (read: most complicated) pyramid system out there.

[antonatsis]

well you never know it might be off your interest to try them out.The thing is the initial investment you would have to put in them.For instance in the previous example i gave it was 40 euro for osme products that i would use and if i wasnt happy with their quality then if i returned them i would get a full refund.Some of those pyramids schemes can work out for you as long as you dont think you are the most clever and best bussiness man there.

[StayTuned]

And what exactly should I tell my cousin now? He most likely wont understand "stop it, its a pyramid system".

He will only listen if I tell him that hes going to lose money, and how hes going to lose it

[bekilrwale]

It sounds like the very definition of a pyramid scheme to me. What Rich said tbh, if it is too good to be true, it probably isn't.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Multi-level Marketing = Pyramid Scheme that occasionally sells something to 'legitimize' itself.

Stay the fuck away from it.

[Darsithis]

Closing this necro by a spambot. Apparently even this company creates them.