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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    You would assume incorrectly, especially since I even posted that I support the legalization of marijuana.
    Yes, but marijuana is one of the lesser harmful, less addictive substances people (ab)use recreationally. Alcohol and certain painkillers can be as addictive, and socially and medically harmful as cocaine and heroine; in fact your list of "lost productivity, welfare, permanent disfigurement and disability, unwanted pregnancies and welfare for those children" pretty much highlights the social harm caused by alcoholism.

  2. #42
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    It's about as practical and logical as people thinking legalization of hard drugs is in any way beneficial to society. Drug addicts are not productive members of society. They not only take down themselves, but their families as well.
    Which is why treating them, and ending the crime of drug use is the only answer.

    I pose a question to you, would you think a person who drinks a beer on a Friday after work when he get's home is a drain on society?

    In 1919 he was considered a drain, in fact drinking that beer could land him in Jail. But wait there's more once he went to jail for drinking a beer he would meet professional criminals who offered him a job dealing beer, to protect his beer business he bought guns and was forced to kill others to protect his beer.

    So when you look at the history of alcohol in America you can see a lot of parallels, sure there where some people who drank a lot ruined their families over alcohol, but many more people can sit and enjoy a beer or two and not have problems. The same is true with all illegal drugs, Heroin is one of the best pain killers ever, cocaine is a topical pain killer and has the ability to prevent nausea. With these drug illegal there is no option in our supposedly free market to legally buy them for the proper use. Saying that a junkie is a lowlife scum is not a good enough answer to keeping these things illegal, because an Alcoholic and an over eater could also be called lowlife scum, but it is perfectly legal to be either.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2012-11-16 at 05:00 AM. Reason: dam auto correct.

  3. #43
    I'm pretty sure some of these people are basing their facts off of the information they learned about drugs in elementary school..

    Yes drugs like cocaine, heroine and meth are very dangerous and highly addictive but LSD should not be bunched with those drugs. I've personally never done acid but I know it is one of the least addictive/dangerous drugs.

    I also find it hilarious that people condone the drinking alcohol over many drugs.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Cocaine and everything harder that is currently illegal.

    It does affect me. I pay taxes that pay for supporting these lowlives since addicts are unable to function in everyday life. In addition, widespread health problems have been proven from these drugs. You expect me to be perfectly content with letting my premiums rise even more simply so these losers can get their fix? Seriously?
    And you currently do all that with Alcohol and Tobacco? Your roads are paved with Alcohol and Tobacco taxes. You want to stop those too?

    People get addicted to just about anything. You cannot criminalize addicts, that is the real crime.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    And you currently do all that with Alcohol and Tobacco? Your roads are paved with Alcohol and Tobacco taxes. You want to stop those too?

    People get addicted to just about anything. You cannot criminalize addicts, that is the real crime.
    http://whyquit.com/whyquit/A_Henningfield_Benowitz.html

    not all drugs are the same.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Yeah cigs are a bitch.

    I am an abuser. I have to drink to get drunk, smoke until I pass out, and abuse until I am dead or nearly, in my case. Yet, in all the things I have abused, nothing ever really gets me addicted.

    Used to abuse to get away. I don't need to get away anymore. I'm truly happy now. It was a long road to get here. I fell off many times. I have seen sober for over a year now, and I didn't even need DAA. Hahah.

    I have never been to jail for my abuse, never stolen, nor not went to work. There are more people like me. Especially, if you count alcohol. Then there are people that abuse until death and non-productivity. You just hear about them a lot more.

    Nothing will prevent abuse, it's a much bigger problem then just the drugs. The real question and the real problem. Why do people use drugs? That is the real problem we need to solve.

    Most people don't want to go down that road. They just want to ban, jail and trivialize these peoples problems.

    Fix the stemming issue, not band-aid the problem.

  7. #47
    Hey, Rukentuts, I don't know what afterschool special you're watching that paints all drug users to be some poor, distraught, I need a handout and other people to pay for my well being so I can score a hit type of lowlife, but most are not.

    In fact, most hard drug users I know have great jobs, and families. My best friend is a recovering heroin addict, and he had a job for 3 years, with health insurance. He also paid his taxes on time.

    I also know an eye surgeon, and a lawyer who are both habitual cocaine users.

    In fact, most drug abusers have a steady income. And, in fact, they function in normal life quite well. Yes, they might have times where they'll miss a day or two of work, but they'll keep on working.

    You just stereotype people. Most drug addicts don't show the usual symptoms of being drug addicts, and in fact, hide it quite well.

  8. #48
    All drugs should be decriminalized, which is different then making them legal. Ones with no physical addictions (such as weed, mushrooms, acid) should be legalized the same way Alcohol is. The rest should remain illegal, but you shouldn't go to jail for using them, rather you should be placed in a facility to break your addiction then a half-way house to reintegrate you to society. Those dependence facilities and halfway houses can be funded by a small percentage of what the US currently spends to prosecute and incarcerate people for marijuana.

    Selling illegal drugs should remain criminalized and carry harsh-ish penalties.

  9. #49
    All drugs legalized, including prescription drugs on ethical grounds. Forget the pragmatic arguments--- are you willing to come into my house which I'm willing to defend with a gun to stop me from doing drugs? If not, why are you sending the police instead?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    All drugs should be decriminalized, which is different then making them legal. Ones with no physical addictions (such as weed, mushrooms, acid) should be legalized the same way Alcohol is. The rest should remain illegal, but you shouldn't go to jail for using them, rather you should be placed in a facility to break your addiction then a half-way house to reintegrate you to society. Those dependence facilities and halfway houses can be funded by a small percentage of what the US currently spends to prosecute and incarcerate people for marijuana.

    Selling illegal drugs should remain criminalized and carry harsh-ish penalties.
    Not sure if I agree with this. I think full legalization for everything is the best solution, not just because it'll weaken cartels and boost income via taxes and whatnot, but also because it doesn't matter if it's illegal - that heroin addict is still gonna get his fix. If you apply the same type of rules to drug use as you do to alcohol use (which is itself a drug, really), I don't think it'd be too chaotic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Not sure if I agree with this. I think full legalization for everything is the best solution, not just because it'll weaken cartels and boost income via taxes and whatnot, but also because it doesn't matter if it's illegal - that heroin addict is still gonna get his fix. If you apply the same type of rules to drug use as you do to alcohol use (which is itself a drug, really), I don't think it'd be too chaotic.
    Not to mention, there's a historical precedent for the weakening of cartels. Once Prohibition was ended, the majority of the Mafia families started to lose vast amounts of power, seeing as how their cash cow had been milked.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Not to mention, there's a historical precedent for the weakening of cartels. Once Prohibition was ended, the majority of the Mafia families started to lose vast amounts of power, seeing as how their cash cow had been milked.
    I'd be interested to see how the weakening of a drug cartel would affect countries like Mexico and Colombia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Not sure if I agree with this. I think full legalization for everything is the best solution, not just because it'll weaken cartels and boost income via taxes and whatnot, but also because it doesn't matter if it's illegal - that heroin addict is still gonna get his fix. If you apply the same type of rules to drug use as you do to alcohol use (which is itself a drug, really), I don't think it'd be too chaotic.
    I'm aware, but decriminalizing it would mean those who are breaking the law for getting their fix aren't thrown in jail, but rather sent to detox centers. I'm not really comfortable with heroin and meth being available at the 7-11 down the street, honestly.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I'd be interested to see how the weakening of a drug cartel would affect countries like Mexico and Colombia.
    Less and Less, as it turns out. Many of the Border Cartels in northern Mexico are turning away from all-drug income to kidnapping and protection rackets. If we had legalized weed in the nineties it would have crushed a lot of those cartels quite quickly.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I'd be interested to see how the weakening of a drug cartel would affect countries like Mexico and Colombia.
    Probably a lot more immigration to the north looking for legitimate jobs. But to be honest, the more conservative countries like many Muslim and Asian ones with harsher penalties will probably see a surge in cartel activity.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    So I was thinking with all the global turmoil, Terrorism, Gaza, Separation of Texas, ect...

    Why is America still waging a losing war on Drugs? There are better options.

    So I made a petition and now I ask MMO-C what is your opinion on the War on Drugs?


    Facts:
    over 2.3 million people are in prison in the United States, This gives us the highest number and highest percentage of population in prison.
    The majority of people in Prison are there on drug related offenses.
    It costs $24k a year per prisoner. Which means $55.2Billion on prisoners.
    Mexican cartels reap $18 billion to $39 billion from drug sales in the United States each year. All tax free, or a lost $1billion+ a year in lost taxes, not counting local sales taxes, just the tax on profits.





    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...olled/TktPFFhL

    P.S. I mean all Controlled substances not just pot.
    At the present state the economy is in if the "war" stopped all of a sudden then who would replace those decent paying jobs in the marketplace? If you can come up with a good answer then you'll be the first person I've seen to do it.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    At the present state the economy is in if the "war" stopped all of a sudden then who would replace those decent paying jobs in the marketplace? I'm yet for people against the "war" to have a good answer to this question.
    Who is going to replace the drug dealers? Pharmecutical and Cigarette companies, mostly. I know Malboro has packaging ready to go for Malboro Greens.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Who is going to replace the drug dealers? Pharmecutical and Cigarette companies, mostly. I know Malboro has packaging ready to go for Malboro Greens.
    I think he's asking about the DEA and related agencies. I'd assume they'd just find employment through other law enforcement services... FBI or ATF, most likely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    As for LSD, I personally think every adult should try it once.
    Not a good idea. I have personal experience with it and it has fucked up my life.

    Every now and then when I'm out drinking, the LSD comes back and I do crazy things. It can take quite a few years before it will stop doing that completely.
    I think it's called residual effects or something like that. I'm not making this up, one time I had a blackout after only drinking two beers and my friend told me I was having an argument with a wall. Not much later I apparently decided to go home because I was angry at everyone. If you know me, you would know that this is so not me, I only spend like 30 minutes at the bar when normally I like to stay till it closes.

    Luckily these occurences seem to have gotten less frequent. But every now and then I wake up at night only to find out I'm tripping because I see random people walking around my room. And I'm sane enough to understand that it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

    Anyway, like I said. Not a good idea to try it. Some are sensitive to it, like me.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I think he's asking about the DEA and related agencies. I'd assume they'd just find employment through other law enforcement services... FBI or ATF, most likely.
    DEA would still be needed to regulate and patrol the market. Verify that your Malboro Greens dont have Angel Dust on them, or that the quality of lsd meets the correct standard?

    You would be getting a more efficient marketplace, a more standardized product, and faith in knowing that the Joint you are smoking doesn't have crystal meth in it. Regulation and Enforcement would still be needed, especially if we decriminalized but did not legalize a lot of the harder and very physically addicting stuff.

  20. #60
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Not a good idea. I have personal experience with it and it has fucked up my life.

    Every now and then when I'm out drinking, the LSD comes back and I do crazy things. It can take quite a few years before it will stop doing that completely.
    I think it's called residual effects or something like that. I'm not making this up, one time I had a blackout after only drinking two beers and my friend told me I was having an argument with a wall. Not much later I apparently decided to go home because I was angry at everyone. If you know me, you would know that this is so not me, I only spend like 30 minutes at the bar when normally I like to stay till it closes.

    Luckily these occurences seem to have gotten less frequent. But every now and then I wake up at night only to find out I'm tripping because I see random people walking around my room. And I'm sane enough to understand that it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

    Anyway, like I said. Not a good idea to try it. Some are sensitive to it, like me.
    LSD has different effects for different people - makes sense, given it induces hallucinations and all kinds of stuff. Generally the first time someone tries it, it needs to be in a safe, calm, controlled environment... last thing you want is someone dropping a tab and having a bad trip on their first ride without calm, sober people there to help them deal with it and keep them safe.

    My experiences with the stuff have always been positive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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