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  1. #81
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post

    It only works if the list is torn up and tossed out, leave 1 drug illegal and there will be a criminal network selling it on the streets in hours.
    how could the government legitimately sell and tax alot of these drugs though? meth? heroine? it is just insane...decriminalizing it maybe but selling this to your own people seems insane.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I guess you can't ban weed either because you can grow pot in your closet? Oh wait...
    Thats different. Marihuana comes from only one plant and you can ban that. But you could make alcohol from your tea with sugar too.. or anything really. My parents made wine from apples when I was little for example. You just can't control that unless they start randomly searching peoples houses.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Thats different. Marihuana comes from only one plant and you can ban that. But you could make alcohol from your tea with sugar too.. or anything really. My parents made wine from apples when I was little for example. You just can't control that unless they start randomly searching peoples houses.
    You can make alcohol out of tea? I did not know that. I thought it needed a grain or fruit base.

    You can ban the plant marijuana (like they did), but to think that seeds and cuttings wouldn't get through customs (although it was here already, so... you can't think you would eliminate it all). You can't find most of it without searching peoples houses either.

    I agree alcohol can be made from more things, but banning plants is hard, unless you go the way of NZ and have very strict in/out procedures to prevent the problems australia is having with wildlife/plants from other parts of the world.

  4. #84
    I would rather keep things as they are. There is no reason to change things, people are just wanting their little high. Get over it.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    To be honest, it doesn't even matter is it was addictive. Maybe it's personal and some people just dont get addicted but the point is that you can't ban alcohol anyway. If they did, people would still make it in their homes because all you need for it is something with sugar or starch content. It would start to ferment even if you dont add yeast to it because of natural yeast flying around everywhere.
    And you can grow cannabis and poppies in your back yard, and methamphetamine can be synthesized from fairly common household items. Getting enough to create batches large enough to sale is pretty difficult these days, but I don't think it'd be hard to get enough stuff to make a batch for your own personal use.

    I'm not sure what your point is, man.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    You can make alcohol out of tea? I did not know that. I thought it needed a grain or fruit base.
    Yea, you can make it from pretty much anything. Ive even heard they made it from manure in World War 2 but not sure if I believe that. Still, pretty much anything organic ferments, even water with sugar in it can be made into alcohol if you add yeast to it.

    Growing pot is a lot harder though. You'd need a greenhouse or a lot of place, special lights set up etc. to grow it and it's usually pretty noticeable. Still even illegal, a lot of people do it and it's fine. They want to use it and know what they're getting into. But I still support keeping it illegal, just decriminalized to reduce people accidentally or on a whim getting introduced to it and possibly getting addicted.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Yea, you can make it from pretty much anything. Ive even heard they made it from manure in World War 2 but not sure if I believe that. Still, pretty much anything organic ferments, even water with sugar in it can be made into alcohol if you add yeast to it.

    Growing pot is a lot harder though. You'd need a greenhouse or a lot of place, special lights set up etc. to grow it and it's usually pretty noticeable. Still even illegal, a lot of people do it and it's fine. They want to use it and know what they're getting into. But I still support keeping it illegal, just decriminalized to reduce people accidentally or on a whim getting introduced to it and possibly getting addicted.
    Weed isn't addictive. Not even like Alcohol is. You just need a fenced in backyard or a grow light in your closet to grow weed.

    Why do you support keeping it illegal? It is already readily available, is less addictive than Alcohol (see: Alcoholism), and makes cartels tons of money purely because it is illegal. What benefits are there for keeping it illegal?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Weed isn't addictive. Not even like Alcohol is. You just need a fenced in backyard or a grow light in your closet to grow weed.

    Why do you support keeping it illegal? It is already readily available, is less addictive than Alcohol (see: Alcoholism), and makes cartels tons of money purely because it is illegal. What benefits are there for keeping it illegal?
    Well, take alcohol or tobacco for example. It's being sold in every supermarket. Every time I go there I notice it and sometimes buy alcohol, especially if there's some campaign and they sell some for very low price. If weed was sold like that, a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't would buy it. It would end up in a lot of homes, become much more readily available for teens and even children. Just no..

    I dont support throwing people in jail for possession but making it legal is completely different matter.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Well, take alcohol or tobacco for example. It's being sold in every supermarket. Every time I go there I notice it and sometimes buy alcohol, especially if there's some campaign and they sell some for very low price. If weed was sold like that, a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't would buy it. It would end up in a lot of homes, become much more readily available for teens and even children. Just no..

    I dont support throwing people in jail for possession but making it legal is completely different matter.
    So how is weed worse for teens and small children than Tobacco or Alcohol?

  10. #90
    Field Marshal noxatron's Avatar
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    This is such a ridiculous notion and it's hilarious how there's still only one signature haha

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So how is weed worse for teens and small children than Tobacco or Alcohol?
    Doesn't matter if it's worse. It's not good. If tobacco would be illegal today, I would also support keeping it illegal but the cat is already out of the bag with that one and alcohol is just impossible to control.

    One bad thing being legal doesn't justify another made so.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Doesn't matter if it's worse. It's not good. If tobacco would be illegal today, I would also support keeping it illegal but the cat is already out of the bag with that one and alcohol is just impossible to control.

    One bad thing being legal doesn't justify another made so.
    Meh ok. I don't agree with you but I see where you are coming from.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Meh ok. I don't agree with you but I see where you are coming from.
    Yea, same here. I see why you think legalizing pot is ok too but this thread isn't really about pot. I dont know why we singled it out, its about all drugs and even if one can argue that marihuana isn't that bad and is healthier than tobacco, the rest of the drugs are certainly very bad for you and a lot of them kill you over 5-10 years once you start using them.

  14. #94
    I'm not sure i can post links yet, but im gonna try anyway

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...69O3VI20101025

    if it doesnt work, try searching switzerland drug use policy,
    aside from whats described in the article, it should be noted that the government views drug use as a disease
    this greatly reduces the view held often by younger illegal users that using drugs is "cool"
    which i think stops a lot of people getting into it in the first place.

    I'm from the netherlands myself and here cannabis in general is allowed, and the sales are being controlled by certified sellers (although small amounts may be homegrown at your own discretion), strangely enough, they're called coffee shops. so referring to ita, they wont be sold to minors easily. thats not to say they dont get their hands on it for sure, and there are still people who certainly get addicted to drugs, only not to cannabis. cannabis has scientifically been proven non-addictive.
    fact is though, that families who are open minded often experience less difficulties with drug abuse, and a less strict policy and these types of thing usually result in people less interested in them.

    a less conservative stance on drugs is, in my opinion, a safer way to deal with it.
    this stuff is often used by people who have a hard time dealing with reality, and use it to escape from it for a certain while.
    unforunately, this is somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy in a country who considers these practices criminal, because that will result in more problems in your own life, means more stress means more need for drugs, kind of a vicious cycle empowering itself.
    the root of this problem, is not the stance of the government, its the problems people are having and their need to escape. the stance a government takes is capable of either relieving the stress of a person, or increase it.

    disclaimer; the views expressed in this reply are expressly my own, aside from the article from reuters, i have not double checked my facts and i may certainly be wrong.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Yea, same here. I see why you think legalizing pot is ok too but this thread isn't really about pot. I dont know why we singled it out, its about all drugs and even if one can argue that marihuana isn't that bad and is healthier than tobacco, the rest of the drugs are certainly very bad for you and a lot of them kill you over 5-10 years once you start using them.
    Because it is easily one of the most widespread drugs (at least in the states) and has some of the least effects upon a person, and isn't addicting. I would argue the same for Shrooms and LSD, but drugs that are addicting should be kept decriminalized but still illegal.

  16. #96
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    What a load of complete bull. It's well known that the flashbacks can and do happen, especially when the person has done something like smoke pot or use another drug. They can be triggered by other things though. There are numerous cases of suicide from the use or after effects of the use of LSD.
    Correlation vs causation. You can get flashbacks, sure, but they're no different from flashbacks that you can get from traumatic events outside of using LSD. Saying that flashbacks are "Caused" by LSD directly is pretty intellectually dishonest. Appeals to belief are meaningless to me if you can't back it up.

    http://simson.net/ref/1970/LSD_Flashbacks.pdf

    "The flashback is probably primarily psychological rather than chemical in nature, and may be related to traumatic events within the LSD intoxication itself. They are seen frequently after bad trips, many of which have been treated in a hospital setting, and although the bad trip appears to have etiological significance, its exact relationship has not been explored."
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2012-11-16 at 02:37 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    See this article, Portugal did this in 2002.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...f-in-portugal/
    Except that you forgot to mention that we decriminalized drugs, not legalized them. If found in possession of drugs, they are still confiscated. Oh, and it's still a crime to trade them. Besides, the fact that drug abuse got lower means that we still got a "war on drugs" policy, since we're trying to lower their numbers.

    That was the whole intention: Decriminalize drugs so that addicts can seek treatment without fear of legal repercussions , not legalize them so you can do them and trade them as much as you want

  18. #98
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    At the present state the economy is in if the "war" stopped all of a sudden then who would replace those decent paying jobs in the marketplace? If you can come up with a good answer then you'll be the first person I've seen to do it.
    You didn't clarify what you where saying, but I think you are speculating that Prison Guards and police officers might loose jobs if the War on drugs ended, look at prohibition, the temporary federal task force to end the Mafia became the FBI, there will always be plenty of crime to justify a police force in the US. They just need to be focused on violence and real crime, drug use is a personal choice.

    Also cops make ok money but it's not the best.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Because many of our prisons are like fucking hotels with cable TV, computers, internet, etc.

    Cut them down to bread and water. Put their asses to work as well.
    Yeah, so if you remove most of drug related, non-violent offenders there wouldn't be that many prisoners. So the privatized jail industry that sprung up quickly after mandatory minimums wouldn't be making "jail condos" in the first place.

    The war on drugs is just more fuel for the biggest drug of them all, wealth. Same with mindless political campaigns fueling marketing and broadcast revenues. ...or wars with other various industries.

  20. #100
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmacphee9 View Post
    how could the government legitimately sell and tax alot of these drugs though? meth? heroine? it is just insane...decriminalizing it maybe but selling this to your own people seems insane.
    We live in a Capitalistic society, the government wouldn't sell a thing. We have a pharmaceutical industry, and a tobacco industry. These industries would take over the importation purification and quality controls set to Government standards for safety, the system is already in place did you know that Coca-cola brings in more Coca plant extract than any drug dealer on the planet, they remove the active ingredient but keep the flavor.

    Someone has pointed out that the Tobacco industry is already prepared to package and sell Marijuana.

    Remember the Majority of people who do drugs are looking for a pleasant buzz, or an escape from a boring life. They would rather not deal with crimanals and would except a weaker safer version of their drug if it was legal.

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