Damn You Bioware!

[Redblade]

Those Cartel Packs are a thrill to open ;D then again... I do like gambling :P

This made me wonder last night over how legal it is for BW to sell them, some counties has very strict rules about anything even resembling gambling.

[Kelimbror]

This made me wonder last night over how legal it is for BW to sell them, some counties has very strict rules about anything even resembling gambling.

It can't actually even be defined as gambling because it states exactly what you will get. You get 2x rare items, 1x boost, 1x random junk. Especially as it is digital goods, you always get what you 'pay' for. The relative value of the items is placed by the consumer, so there is no onus on the company providing them.

It's like McDonald's selling mystery food boxes that guarantee one sandwich, 2 sides, and a drink. Just because everyone wants the McRib doesn't mean that they are gambling when they get a Quarter Pounder instead. In this respect, they aren't paying the money for the chance, they are literally paying money for a product. If the terms weren't so specific beforehand, or there was a possibility to get nothing, then it would fall under gambling and could be prosecuted where it is prohibited.

[Redblade]

It can't actually even be defined as gambling because it states exactly what you will get. You get 2x rare items, 1x boost, 1x random junk. Especially as it is digital goods, you always get what you 'pay' for. The relative value of the items is placed by the consumer, so there is no onus on the company providing them.

It's like McDonald's selling mystery food boxes that guarantee one sandwich, 2 sides, and a drink. Just because everyone wants the McRib doesn't mean that they are gambling when they get a Quarter Pounder instead. In this respect, they aren't paying the money for the chance, they are literally paying money for a product. If the terms weren't so specific beforehand, or there was a possibility to get nothing, then it would fall under gambling and could be prosecuted where it is prohibited.

Laws differ a lot between countries though, there is a reason some can't take part in certain promotional offers and such, either way it's just food for thought.

[Purple]

As with all things that have similarities to gambling, the best thing to do is opt out wherever, and whenever, you can. It's obvious from this thread alone what low self control can result in, and it's not pretty. It may not be gambling 'exactly' but you see the addictive behavior, even in this very thread, "Just one more, just one more and I'll get what I want!" Somehow that just doesn't seem healthy to me, and while I accept that the individual needs to be responsible.. it still doesn't make me think fondly of such systems, nor the creators of said systems.

It's not just this thread, you can see a few official forums posts, and dialogues elsewhere, with people obviously unable to stop themselves from buying more. I'm unsure of whether I should be sad, disgusted or mildly amused.

[Arlee]

Laws differ a lot between countries though, there is a reason some can't take part in certain promotional offers and such, either way it's just food for thought.

As far as laws are concerned pretty much in the US if you can't win real money than it isn't gambling.

[iceberg265]

Wow there are some high horses in here...Thread was mostly a joke, I think the Cartel Packs are a ton of fun and something to spend my free coins on every month, but its not like I am about to lose my house over them or something.

People need to lighten up, especially the trolls that don't even play the game.

[Psychlon]

lol - Jealous? Of what ? That you are gambling real money to get a few vanity items in an MMO game? Sorry but Most ppl realise when things are a total failure. And they also realise when the few that fall for it think they are so smart that they can beat the slot machine.

But you are supporting this feature so dont expect to get much more than more vanity items hidden behind random luck of spending real money. This way Bioware are earning much more money than by actually selling vanity stuff in their shop. Some ppl are still so naive that they dont realise it and just because they desided to spend money - they have to defend themselfs instead of seeing the bloody obvious that this has nothing to do with the game in any way. Other than ofc destroy a perfectly great stories that should be the ways of gaining those items.

Really... never thought about that, now it totally makes sense... /facepalm

The fact its a fluff actually makes it more of an issue than anything else. Fluff items should be just sold flat out in an ingame shop. This way Bioware is able to make more money and still offer fewer items over time that costs less to make. Next week they might add 2 new weapon skins into the existing packs. And the money wheel spinns again ....Great feature ....

What is beyond my understanding is how incredably naive and blind ppl are to what is actually going on. Like there are not bet sites and poker sites that offer first 10 dollars free to get ppl hooked ? Free cartel coins to throw at stuff? lol....

Random is never in the favor of the player. Its there for a reason. And if subscribers and fans of SWTOR really think this is in any way good feature to have.. then just wait next few months when more packs will become the way to make subscribers spend alot of extra money. Cause thats exactly how this works.

Again... people do know what's going on, the thing you should start realising if someone spends over 300 bucks on "fluff" that probably for that person money isn't that big of an issue like it is for you obviously because if it would cost 3 dollars instead of 300 you wouldn't even be here.

Your still utterly blind what it actually does for the game. Thats the point you dont get. Its cheaper for Bioware to add 5 items into a random buy feature than to spend making real content. And thats why they add this. And somehow - you dont get it yet. Gratz.

You have no idea what it's going to do for the game so why don't you take your cup of stfu and come back in 1-2 months to have actually some kind of ground you can base your overly dramatical posts on?

@legal or not

I'm working/ living in a country gambling of any kind is illegal, however it's working.

[Adam Jensen]

"Is the dark side stronger?"

"No, no. No. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

"But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"

"You will know... when you are calm, passive, at peace."

There is no peace. Only passion.

[SinR]

I'm working/ living in a country gambling of any kind is illegal, however it's working.

So, do carnival games count as gambling? Cause that's kinda how EA's Cartel Coin system works. Knock over the milk bottles, get a prize. Oh whats that? You want *THAT* Prize? Gotta trade up. Keep playing, lemme take that dollar bill from you so you can try again. Oh, sorry too bad, time to try again. Tell you what, here's 2 plays, good luck kiddo!

Pretty soon the kid's out like 25 bucks and only has a small pink stuffed bear to show for it that's probably available at the local Dollar Tree store for a buck.


That's how Cartel Coins work pretty much. Here, you get a rare item or two, with the chance that you can get something badass like this mask from KOTOR2 or the monkey thingy from Episode 6. But not this time. Please insert coin here to try your luck again.

Pretty soon you're out 100 bucks and you have like 10 of the same rare item.

[TheOne]

I work. I make a paycheck. I spend my money that I make by working at my job on whatever I choose. Any problem anyone has with what I do with my money has nothing to do with me and is their problem. Not mine. It feels better to be a have than a have not. Thank goodness for idiot human beings that give me loads of money to do things they could easily do themselves. Making money off of peoples' laziness is awesome. They pay for my hobby.

Anyway, have a good day, I'm off to buy more Cartel Packs. I guess it's time to pay my sub too.

[Psychlon]

Pretty soon you're out 100 bucks and you have like 10 of the same rare item.

I bought over 200 crime lord packs, still missing the nihilus mask, the spy helmet and a white crystal. I guess to make something really rare the only way is to put it either as total random drop or behind another "luck chance" of 0,00000001 so not everyone is running around with it. No quest could provide the same level of rarity.

[Deleted]

I suspect the Cartel is a way to recoup the money they spent, since the only way to even play this game F2P is to buy the unlocks and other stuff. However i did use my coins on the packs got f-all and a mount and some banners, still no party jawa though...
In all it's something i wouldn't have gotten prior and something i don't see myself spending a lot of money on either. I'm just not interested in vanity items or xp boosts since over leveling makes the challenge pretty much disappear :/
I'm kinda meh on the whole thing, hoping bioware isn't just recouping money like i think they are and actually try to make swtor better. I can't wait for the next set of chapters XD

Though I am currently leveling a new character, completely forgot the planet stories so at least i can have fun with that and see if the end game is any good :P

[Psychlon]

The party jawa came by mail for being subscribed when f2p hits (or am I wrong?).

However I would have prefered the tythonian lightsaber to be main and offhand.. so I'll use one for my juggernaut and another for my inquisitor.

[Icaras]

I ended up with 950 coins when I logged in after the patch and the only thing i've purchased so far is a cool level 43 epic cloak for my sniper. The stats were good, but it was mostly the look of it I liked it.

Ultimately, I'm hoping to see more cosmetic gear I can buy, especially if I can use it at lower levels. That might keep me subbed if I decide not to raid with my snioper when I get her to 50 (Which I'm half considering. If I can find a team that doesn't conflict with my wow raid team)

[Redblade]

As far as laws are concerned pretty much in the US if you can't win real money than it isn't gambling.

In Europe there are countries with fairly tight laws, I know other game companies have been forced to exclude some for promotional campaigns and such. I'm not saying it is illegal, just got me thinking if it wasn't borderline around some parts of Europe.

@legal or not

I'm working/ living in a country gambling of any kind is illegal, however it's working.

So would a lottery site made by me until the authorities found out...

Just because it's working doesn't mean it's legal.

[Psychlon]

In Europe there are countries with fairly tight laws, I know other game companies have been forced to exclude some for promotional campaigns and such. I'm not saying it is illegal, just got me thinking if it wasn't borderline around some parts of Europe.



So would a lottery site made by me until the authorities found out...

Just because it's working doesn't mean it's legal.

Authorities do read throuh all books/ comics, watch any movie delievered to this country and will decide upon that if it will be available or not. I don't think that an fairly large MMO could just buypass this system if it would be considered to fall under gambling. It's more like a trading card game with 6-12 cards inside with chances for a rare/ superrare.

[moff]

It's more like a trading card game with 6-12 cards inside with chances for a rare/ superrare.

thats the most fitting comparison yet. Though buying extra coins with real money for cartel packs is much more stupid than both casino-gambling for real money and trading card packs.
I really think the only decent use for these packs is for subbers who have no other use for their free cartel points. but in the end I guess bioware will earn a serious amount of money with them because of "gamblers". I just hope the money is used to improve the game and not just to fill EA's pockets.

[Psychlon]

thats the most fitting comparison yet. Though buying extra coins with real money for cartel packs is much more stupid than both casino-gambling for real money and trading card packs.

Why? It's like I'm trading my money for "Magic the Gathering Coins" and buy my card pack with them instead of real money. Don't see why it's more stupid.

[Redblade]

Why? It's like I'm trading my money for "Magic the Gathering Coins" and buy my card pack with them instead of real money. Don't see why it's more stupid.

Isn't that obvious? One can't ever be worth anything in real currencies while the others can.

[Forsedar]

Are we seriously arguing over if Cartel Packs are illegal gambling or not?

Cut it out. This is a stupid argument all together. Its chance - which is completely different than 'gambling'. How is this different than buying mounts in WoW for $25? Sure, the mount is guaranteed but the Cartel Packs also guarantee items. It tells you what you might get in them. Stop this useless bickering.