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  1. #141
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    I don't have problems putting in effort to get stuff, but why does that effort have to be in something as boring as dailies? If they gave me the alternative of running a challenge mode as a daily quest and get a rep item as reward that gives me the same amount of rep as doing a set of dailies for one faction, also locking me out from said dailies for that day (unusable if I already completed them), that would be awesome. This doesn't include queuing for anything, does not give me any other gear reward like heroic dungeons would, makes me go out in the world to summon the lazy dpsers, is the kind of group activity I expect from a MMO, but most important of all: it's actually fun.

    Also, I don't get why people keep comparing the daily grind to TBC. The factions you could actually get good gear from in TBC were grindable in dungeons or by killing mobs. Only ones I can remember that you actually had to do dailies for were Ogri'la and Netherwing. I never bothered to get exalted with Netherwing as it was just a mount faction, and as I recall, you didn't need much rep with Ogri'la to be able to use the epics that you had to repair with those apex crystals (shards?).

    To be honest, I wouldn't mind a grind with reasonable returns either (like getting rep from killing mobs or upping droprate on those keys or klaxxi shards) since then I can at least chose when I want to do my repgrind rather than only being able to do it once per day, feeling like I'm after if I miss one.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ...Raid.

    LFR.

    Epics drop from Heroics from time to time.

    Buy them off the AH.

    Get BOEs off of mobs per usual.

    Craft gear.

    ...Shall I say more.
    And not a single piece is 489, makes you think that vp gear is kinda required.

  3. #143
    The problem is that you dont get much valor for running dungeons
    The problem is that valor gear is tied to reputation
    The problem is you could get ganked for hours trying to do dailies
    The problem is LFR loot distribution (I explained a much better loot system in a LFR loot system thread)

    There you go, now you know why people "constantly crying" as you said over the fact that they have no option but to do dalies

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    His point isn't valid. He's created yet another thread that is nothing but ripping into people who don't want to play the game the same way as he does. Telling those people how to play adds absolutely nothing to this discussion.

    Great for him if he doesn't craft, doesn't have alts, doesn't have a guild that expects you to do them and has enough time or the ability to log on each day/regularly for long enough to do them, or simply enjoys questing. But many people don't have those things and have legitimate objections as to how daily focused the game is.
    It appears to me that it's you telling other people how to play. Since you don't want to do dailies, the people that enjoy having that questing content available are faced with the prospect of having that content stripped away or otherwise limited. Blizzard isn't forcing you to do dailies; if you don't like them, don't do them. What is it about the current design that makes you think the game is "daily focused?"

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with Angry McGee here. I've been 90 for a while now, and I'm bored. No raiding guilds will look at me (As 25-man is the only format I desire), and pugs won't take anyone under a 475 ilvl. I've been playing since BC and I haven't been out of raiding for this long.
    Part of the problem here is the introduction of an LFR tier of gear and handing us valor gear equivalent to normal raid drop gear. The gap between a 463 blue and a 489 is *huge* and there's no question about the 489 being hands down better. In early Cataclysm the first raid tier purples and heroic 5 man blues were much closer together and it was common for a normal mode raid purple with the wrong stats for your spec to not even be a big upgrade over a 5 man blue. You could get some of those entry level epics from reputation grinds but the gap between those and 5 man blues was not large enough that they would put you a ton ahead of someone who didn't get them.

    Now the difference between being in 5 man drops and being in valor gear is similar to what the difference between having blues and heroic mode raid gear is and since the valor gear is a reward from a trivial but time consuming grind we are getting massive inflation in item level expectations.

  6. #146
    I like how people in this thread are missing something rather important: Yes, alts can just live off of LFR.

    But.

    Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring require 470 itemlevel while Mogu'shan Vaults only require 463. What's that, only 7 itemlevels difference? No problem?

    What about bad luck. Try running Mogu'shan 2 weeks in a row and only get gold.

    My warrior was barely able to get 470 itemlevel, that was only because I did dailies for rep (and I had already done it on my main once) and got a temporary item to fill a slot.

    My shaman is on 467 itemlevel for weeks now. I refuse to spend gold on AH, and I don't want to do dailies for rep. I want to get its gear from LFR. But guess what - I have no luck whatsoever and thus haven't been able to do HoF so far on that character.

    My DK is on 463. 0 drops since the start of expansion in LFR. Zero. Null. And yes before you ask, I leveled all those characters up within the first week of MoP.

    I top healing on my shaman. I take 0 hits from devastating combo on my warrior and DK (both tanks), as well as manage cooldowns and everything else perfectly well, explain tactics for HoF etc etc. Good players seem to get punished with rng.

    Whoever thought it was a good idea to make HoF and ToES require higher itemlevel was an idiot and should be fired.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    Wrong.

    Firstly, you have a bad case of selective reading and misunderstanding text. As I said, and I guess i'll have to repeat myself. It has nothing to do with the way I play and the way others play, the main point is very clear, the dailies are optional, 100% optional. The raiders, alts and socials in any guild find the situation the same, and again it's very simple, the dailies make no difference to progression. Normal raids are cleared in heroic blues and some boe's from the ah, not a hint of dailies is needed for that.

    Secondly, there are plenty of working adults who play wow, if you can't manage your time then that's an issue you have to deal with. You are not "behind" because you can't do optional dailies, it would make no difference if you could do them or not.

    Next, your point about crafting. Seriously, the standing required is honoured, that is a complete minimum of effort, and again, OPTIONAL, the items crafted are boe, just buy them? They are dirt cheap now too, because again, the ilvl is useless now. You have 5 tailors, and you just must have the pattern for the bag on all 5 chars? Wrong, and again, OPTIONAL, you don't have to, you don't have to get them on any char, you again could just buy them from the ah. The points you make just highlight more, the fact that all of these dailies are a simple case of "do or do not".
    It's only the better raids that can clear it in blues. A lot are stuck on it with better gear. Blizzard have posted and agreed that normal people need better gear than blues to be able to get through SPV, which they think is as it should be. There's always some that can do it in less gear, but most wanted the valor gear for it. It's less important now with LFR, but some of the valor gear is higher lvl with a good margen, and hence desireble.
    But the further we get in the expansion the less it matters.

    Agreeing that you really don't need the same recipe on 5 alts. That's silly. Make the cloth on each alt, and send it all to the one that have the recipe, and be happy with the saved time

    I did the dailies in the beginning and got most to revered rather fast(i hate dailies), which was what i felt was needed the first days since i didn't know when we would be ready to raid. Was wasted time, but didn't know that back then.
    Now i just take it slow with the rest. I know my tailor will have to get to revered for his bags, but that's about it.

    So overall i agree with OP :P

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 12:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinderofl View Post
    I like how people in this thread are missing something rather important: Yes, alts can just live off of LFR.

    But.

    Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring require 470 itemlevel while Mogu'shan Vaults only require 463. What's that, only 7 itemlevels difference? No problem?

    What about bad luck. Try running Mogu'shan 2 weeks in a row and only get gold.
    "two weeks" and no gear isn't "bad luck" It's plain normal :P you don't have a 50% dropchance off bosses, and you never had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinderofl View Post
    Whoever thought it was a good idea to make HoF and ToES require higher itemlevel was an idiot and should be fired.
    Gearlvl is higher in there, and people wipe well. It looks like a good idea to me.

    You could buy things of AH, or lvl BS up, for chest and gloves. Do sha of anger and hope for drops there. Lvling in Dread Waste makes you honored with klaxxi from what i recall, so you can get some gear there with a bit of luck. Buy/make a trinket. Now you have not done any dailies, but er getting close to get in, in the new raids on LFR and rage about not getting 5 loot-items first time.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  8. #148
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Once we are a patch or two into the expansion leveling and gearing alts will be as easy as you remember it (and I'm referring to selective memory here).
    Lets hope it doesn't get cataclysm - easy.
    There you played an alt for what 2 days after a patch and were left with nothing to do but grind valor again.. <_<

  9. #149
    I am Murloc!
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    You know, the 8th anniversary bonus seems pretty funny now. Bonus reputation from kills, woah! That will be so helpful when grinding ... um... well... Wait, the only reputation you get from kills is Prince until honored.

    Not a big thing, but still - pretty amusing.

    Also, did another person just post about getting Shado-Pan honored from questing? It doesn't happen unless you're a human or use some other reputation bonus in addition to guild perk. Otherwise, you're "almost there but not quite".

  10. #150
    The whinging will no doubt have them make the vendor rewards require friendly. God forbid that someone actually plays the game in order to get a reward! It doesn't even take me one and a half hours to do the dailies for 4 factions, but then again crying and saying "I am a casual/I have work/I have a family!" takes a lot of time and energy so I understand why some people struggle. Having just 2 hours to play each day and expecting epic gear though is right about the attitude that Blizzard promoted with WOTLK and Cata.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by darthshatner View Post
    It appears to me that it's you telling other people how to play. Since you don't want to do dailies, the people that enjoy having that questing content available are faced with the prospect of having that content stripped away or otherwise limited. Blizzard isn't forcing you to do dailies; if you don't like them, don't do them. What is it about the current design that makes you think the game is "daily focused?"
    If you'd gone back and read my post history, or even checked my other posts in this thread you would see that I've *always* said, across literally dozens of posts, that dailies should stay but rewards between the various different ways of earning rep should be better balanced to provide viable options for people who don't enjoy/can't do dailies can earn the rewards in a way in which they enjoy. I don't have a problem with other people having fun (I wonder how many would actually do the dailies for fun if they were genuinely optional?), my problem is when I'm not having any. Given all of the 'MoP is about giving you options to play how you want' talk I don't see why it's that hard to y'know, have some more viable options to achieve the same ends.

    What is making the game daily focused is that you have to do dailies if you want to craft, to get generally accepted gear levels, to get coins, to join raid groups, to app to guilds, to join pugs, to basically participate in the server/game community. As someone who plays as a crafter could you explain to me how I can do that without doing dailies exactly, given that a large number of patterns require revered/exalted? While I acknowledge nothing in the game is mandatory, to participate fully in that aspect of the game you have to do dailies right now. Ok so the answer is don't participate fully, but honestly that's boring and not fun which is what people are complaining about.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by darthshatner View Post
    It appears to me that it's you telling other people how to play. Since you don't want to do dailies, the people that enjoy having that questing content available are faced with the prospect of having that content stripped away
    What the actual fuck? Has anyone actually wanted dailies removed? Here's how I would fix this:

    Add a bunch of valor gear without item level requirements in the game
    Remove valor requirements from reputation items, just make them free once you unlock them (but obviously re-tune the rate of reputation gain and actual rep requirements for this)

    There would be a way to keep up with gear for people who won't do dailies but can only raid occasionally (either because it's an alt or because a player can't log in during the prime raid hours and thus can't find a guild etc) and there would be stuff to do for solo grinders. Someone who would do it all would get gear faster than others. That's the way it used to be and what was the problem with that? The tabards giving you the reputation for free? Just remove the tabards, have some valor-free reputation rewards for people that want to solo grind and have some valor rewards that need no rep for people who enjoy doing group content. True obsessives can do it all if they want but to prevent them from getting super geared without raiding you can make the rewards overlap (ie give a valor belt and a reputation belt).

    Blizzard isn't forcing you to do dailies; if you don't like them, don't do them.
    Yes we can indeed quit the game. The point once again is there is nothing whatsoever to do in PvE unless you grind dailies. You won't get into a decent raiding guild if you apply telling them you won't grind gear. You won't get into trade pugs as 463 gear is now universally considered crap and not enough for raiding by trade pugs. You have no reason to run heroic 5 mans because the valor is useless without rep. You have no reason to run scenarios that reward valor and gear that will get you kicked out of pug raids. You have no reason to do professions since the recipes are mostly hidden behind the rep grinds.

    We are not forced to play WoW indeed but we *are* forced to do the dailies if we actually want to play WoW for more than sitting in Orgrimmar and queuing for PvP. Funnily enough, that's all I'm doing in MoP, all because of the dailies that were supposed to get me out of Orgrimmar.

    What is it about the current design that makes you think the game is "daily focused?"
    I log in on an alt, there's nothing to do since I'm not willing to do dailies to unlock the game, I log out.

    Eventually I go do some PvP where funnily enough I don't have to do any solo grinding at all to actually get into the group content of a multiplayer game. Hmm, I have an idea. What if we added arena rating requirements for gear? You can't wear your valor epics unless you get enough arena rating first. Wouldn't that be a great idea? Those of us who enjoy PvP could sit here in QQ threads and tell people to l2p, you don't NEED that gear to clear normal mode raids, you don't HAVE TO PvP at all since you don't NEED to have this gear and so on?

    Or how about making valor gear require you to do a few hundred pet battles to encourage people to experience that new content?

    The problem with the whole thing is that some of us enjoy the group content of this game but not the solo content. Now we are being told we must solo grind for access to group content rewards. Just please separate the different aspects of the game, I don't want to do solo grinding, I don't want to do pet battles, I don't want to do achievements, I don't care if people get handed a ton of free stuff for doing all that as long as I'm not blocked out of group content rewards because I didn't do some solo grinding.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    The whinging will no doubt have them make the vendor rewards require friendly. God forbid that someone actually plays the game in order to get a reward! It doesn't even take me one and a half hours to do the dailies for 4 factions, but then again crying and saying "I am a casual/I have work/I have a family!" takes a lot of time and energy so I understand why some people struggle. Having just 2 hours to play each day and expecting epic gear though is right about the attitude that Blizzard promoted with WOTLK and Cata.
    2 hours to play? Hardly. With all the complaining I imagine most of those people effectively cut their playtime by half.

  14. #154
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I think it took me 30 days.
    It took me longer, because I brake for squirrels.
    Funny enough, this was actually true. lol

    When I started I believed that if I run over something it would die. (blush)

    Seriously, OP has a valid point.
    Anyone claiming their army of alts as a counter reason, your point is moot and invalid. you cannot blame your "obsession" onto others, or the game.
    Whenever we make a new toon, we must expect that we will have to level that toon up again at some point. The more such toons we make, the more we have to face the leveling process.
    Leveling cannot be designed towards an army of toons. It has to be designed towards ONE toon. And it always has been that way.
    Alts are typically made, and played when a players main toon is pretty much done with the current content, and time opens up for something else. Or as a change of pace, to so something else, other than the daily routine with the main.
    That is however seldom the case at the beginning of an entire expansion. In fact, it's good that way.
    If the game was designed that everyone could have 5, 6, 7 toons all fully geared out and up to speed on the content, then we would have a huge problem with the content. It would be too easy, it would get boring within a week....
    Mass cancellations could be a very possible side effect.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    The whinging will no doubt have them make the vendor rewards require friendly. God forbid that someone actually plays the game in order to get a reward! It doesn't even take me one and a half hours to do the dailies for 4 factions, but then again crying and saying "I am a casual/I have work/I have a family!" takes a lot of time and energy so I understand why some people struggle. Having just 2 hours to play each day and expecting epic gear though is right about the attitude that Blizzard promoted with WOTLK and Cata.
    You seriously think 2 hours a day, which is 14 hours per week, or approximately 1/7 of your entire waking life is *not* enough time investment to justify some sort of reward/enjoyment? Good god. If I'm putting 15% of my life into something yeah, I think I'd want a reward out of that. That is not an unreasonable expectation. It's a game, not a career. And lets be real here, that's understating. For actual adults with real jobs 2 hours a day is ~30-50% of their free waking hours monday-friday. That is a lot. It's a huge amount of time to commit on a daily basis. Damn right anyone who can manage that feels entitled to some reward.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    I am doing klaxxi/shado pa dailies .. and i hate to think i wont need to do them anymore one day..
    Klaxxi, August Celestial and Tilers are my favorites. Shado-pan is cool too.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    What the actual fuck? Has anyone actually wanted dailies removed? Here's how I would fix this:

    Add a bunch of valor gear without item level requirements in the game
    Remove valor requirements from reputation items, just make them free once you unlock them (but obviously re-tune the rate of reputation gain and actual rep requirements for this)

    There would be a way to keep up with gear for people who won't do dailies but can only raid occasionally (either because it's an alt or because a player can't log in during the prime raid hours and thus can't find a guild etc) and there would be stuff to do for solo grinders. Someone who would do it all would get gear faster than others. That's the way it used to be and what was the problem with that? The tabards giving you the reputation for free? Just remove the tabards, have some valor-free reputation rewards for people that want to solo grind and have some valor rewards that need no rep for people who enjoy doing group content. True obsessives can do it all if they want but to prevent them from getting super geared without raiding you can make the rewards overlap (ie give a valor belt and a reputation belt).



    Yes we can indeed quit the game. The point once again is there is nothing whatsoever to do in PvE unless you grind dailies. You won't get into a decent raiding guild if you apply telling them you won't grind gear. You won't get into trade pugs as 463 gear is now universally considered crap and not enough for raiding by trade pugs. You have no reason to run heroic 5 mans because the valor is useless without rep. You have no reason to run scenarios that reward valor and gear that will get you kicked out of pug raids. You have no reason to do professions since the recipes are mostly hidden behind the rep grinds.

    We are not forced to play WoW indeed but we *are* forced to do the dailies if we actually want to play WoW for more than sitting in Orgrimmar and queuing for PvP. Funnily enough, that's all I'm doing in MoP, all because of the dailies that were supposed to get me out of Orgrimmar.



    I log in on an alt, there's nothing to do since I'm not willing to do dailies to unlock the game, I log out.

    Eventually I go do some PvP where funnily enough I don't have to do any solo grinding at all to actually get into the group content of a multiplayer game. Hmm, I have an idea. What if we added arena rating requirements for gear? You can't wear your valor epics unless you get enough arena rating first. Wouldn't that be a great idea? Those of us who enjoy PvP could sit here in QQ threads and tell people to l2p, you don't NEED that gear to clear normal mode raids, you don't HAVE TO PvP at all since you don't NEED to have this gear and so on?

    Or how about making valor gear require you to do a few hundred pet battles to encourage people to experience that new content?

    The problem with the whole thing is that some of us enjoy the group content of this game but not the solo content. Now we are being told we must solo grind for access to group content rewards. Just please separate the different aspects of the game, I don't want to do solo grinding, I don't want to do pet battles, I don't want to do achievements, I don't care if people get handed a ton of free stuff for doing all that as long as I'm not blocked out of group content rewards because I didn't do some solo grinding.
    We have arena rating as requirement for gear..... Top tier always needs that.
    You need 10 wins and you got your top epic. PVP grants you an epic every week. This cannot be said about PVE.
    The PVP/PVE skill debate is moot here too... It's proven that it has nothing to do with anything whether one prefers PVP or PVE.
    Skilled players are on both sides of the aisle. And the fact that someone knows how to PVP decently doesn't make them a good raider at all.

    Thinking that there is nothing to do in the game is completely false.
    There's an entire game with a vast amount of content sitting to be done. We can choose what we want to do.
    I can keep myself so tied up in all kinds of activities that I sometimes forget I'm not valor capped for the week yet, and have to get my ass in gear for the last two days.
    Now I see, how one could feel like they have nothing to do, if their intention is nothing else but running dungeons and raids, or arenas and rbgs.
    But that is then your exclusive "problem". You misunderstand the game in the first place.
    It's not an interactive version of some arcade game.
    If you are bored, try running your head against a brick wall in challenge modes. do scenarios, do whatever else....
    But don't blame your lack of enthusiasm and narrow minded views onto the games design and mechanics.

    The times for handouts are over, at least for now.

  18. #158
    News flash. Its a game. Playing it is 100% optional. That does not make a part of the game well designed or desirable. And categorizing people you don't agree with as a minority without any statistics is hardly impartial.

    I voted with my wallet and cancelled my account. You can rant and rave about how people should 'lurve' dailies but i don't care. And I seriously doubt I was the only one who cancelled their account over it.

  19. #159
    Deleted
    If you want the profession recipes, you *have* to do the dailies.
    There is absolutely *NO* other way.

    For enchanters, it's really easy, as it's only grinding 3 reps to revered through 100 rep daily quests.
    /sarcasm

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 03:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dodonpachi View Post
    News flash. Its a game. Playing it is 100% optional. That does not make a part of the game well designed or desirable. And categorizing people you don't agree with as a minority without any statistics is hardly impartial.

    I voted with my wallet and cancelled my account. You can rant and rave about how people should 'lurve' dailies but i don't care. And I seriously doubt I was the only one who cancelled their account over it.
    My thoughts exactly.
    Except I made the mistake to take a 6 months sub at MoP's launch (I still had a little faith in Blizzard even if it should have been obvious that they're not even the shadow of their former self). So I will follow in 4 months.

  20. #160
    i was thinking of a solution blizz could try implementing : once u get a faction to exalted you could buy an accountwide badge of honor or something that you could send to your alt giving you increased rep for every daily quest of that faction you would need to do. thus making the grind less difficult.. maybe 50% more rep gained. plus with each faction needing to be exalted first you'd atleast have to work hard for that rep once.

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