Who is worse Blackhand or Garrosh?

[Dreknar20]

The Alliance don't really openly use Fel Magic or demons. Hell, the Warlocks in Stormwind have to hide their operations in a false tavern.

Yet Warlock powers are widely used in naval combat

---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 02:54 PM ----------

You don't go from having strong and strict morals about something, making even some of your underlings scared of the idea of demonic magic being used and Garrosh finding out, to him himself starting to use everything demonic magic he can find.
.

Well its not like Garrosh changed in 5 seconds
It has been at the very least months in-between the beginning of Cata to the end of it

Though I am dissapointed by it, I dont see Garrosh's change as something thats too hard to believe
And I dont see his development as fractured and broken as people say it is

[Velshin]

That little phrase from Metzen really says nothing. Either it is very bad storywriting and character development or else Garrosh is corrupted.
You don't go from having strong and strict morals about something, making even some of your underlings scared of the idea of demonic magic being used and Garrosh finding out, to him himself starting to use everything demonic magic he can find.

The comment the Dragonmaw Warchief made was about being led down the path of demonic corruption btw.
"Are you and I so different? Cast your lot with Hellscream, then. See where -he- takes you."

Garrosh is corrupted in my book, end of.

Man it's because of Grom that comments from Dragonmaw Warchief it's because both him and Garrosh were in Outland and because the history of Grom Hellscream drinking the blood of Mannoroth aka being corrupted it's that history why the Dragonmaw Warchief commenting about it's because of bad history of the Father of Garrosh who he damned his people which is what Garrosh is doing. Garrosh recklessness and warmongering actions is the reason behind leading his Horde to the darkness it's not corruption from demons or old gods the same very reason why Grom drank the blood of Mannoroth it was his own free will being reckless it's not like someone forced him or enslaved Grom to drink from the demon blood it was his own doing and same goes for Garrosh it's his own doing. and Yes about Metzen comment it makes sense and it's a proof because back in Blizzcon when someone talk about how Sargeras being evil and mastermind behind everything is happening Metzen didnt' said oh ok because Sargeras is jerk and bastard as if what he just said about Garrosh nope he said something about maybe Sargeras is just misguided and misunderstood and think chaos is the true nature of the universe.

About bad writing yes I agree with you here but don't forget that the events between wotlk and cata is at least something like over 5 years or more it wasn't that fast.

[Deleted]

That little phrase from Metzen really says nothing. Either it is very bad storywriting and character development or else Garrosh is corrupted.
You don't go from having strong and strict morals about something, making even some of your underlings scared of the idea of demonic magic being used and Garrosh finding out, to him himself starting to use everything demonic magic he can find.

The comment the Dragonmaw Warchief made was about being led down the path of demonic corruption btw.
"Are you and I so different? Cast your lot with Hellscream, then. See where -he- takes you."

Garrosh is corrupted in my book, end of.

That might be foreshadowing, but does not mean Garrosh is corrupted now. Might mean that he'll become corrupted in the future, maybe towards the end of MoP. Maybe he'll go down the same road his father did, which would be a good tie-in to another Legion expansion.

[Velshin]

That might be forshadowing, but does not mean Garrosh is corrupted now. Might mean that he'll become corrupted in the future, maybe towards the end of MoP. Maybe he'll go down the same road his father did, which would be a good tie-in to another Legion expansion.

It will be more awesome if Garrosh do that from his own free will because let us be honest if a demonic energy corrupted him or old gods lead him to do it..it will be lame and so glishe..and predictable..It will be more interesting if he leads his Horde to the darkness with his own free will with his own bad leading, choices, decisions, and actions.

[Scummer]

Yet Warlock powers are widely used in naval combat

They weren't used "widely". Nor was that the point of the post, it's made clear that Varian is reluctantly using them because of their uses not because he think Warlocks are fine and should be allowed to openly practise their magic.
Heck prior to Cata Warlocks were banned in Ironforge under Magni.

[Deleted]

Blackhand was a puppet, who's strings were pulled by gul'dan, the most evil bastard orc that ever lived.

Gul'dan surely was one dark mothafucka but on the other hand, there's still Ner'zhul, who may have been doomed to this fate by Kil'Jaeden, but he's still pretty evil, if not more evil than Gul'dan...

[Trassk]

Gul'dan surely was one dark mothafucka but on the other hand, there's still Ner'zhul, who may have been doomed to this fate by Kil'Jaeden, but he's still pretty evil, if not more evil than Gul'dan...

No, sorry, honestly can't agree with you there. Ner'zhul went from a peaceful shaman, to a war leader, leading an army of blood crazy orcs, to ultmately betraying his own people to save his own skin. Right up until he opened a portal to escape the alliance as they closed in on them, ner'zhul was still decent enough.
When he was made into the lich king and infused with the armor, he was dammed and that kinda thing would have screwed up anyone's soul.

But when it came down to it, ner'zhul's bad acts were done out of desperation and survival, well gul'dan was a purely self serving son of a bitch who only thought of power and control, even back before the orcs were corrupted, he fel to lust for power so easily. He's far more of a bastard then ner'zhul could have been.

[Dreknar20]

Gul'dan surely was one dark mothafucka but on the other hand, there's still Ner'zhul, who may have been doomed to this fate by Kil'Jaeden, but he's still pretty evil, if not more evil than Gul'dan...

not really.

Once Ner'zhul saw through Kil'jaedens true motives, he tried to break the Pact he made with the Demon Lord, but big K just went and worked with his apprentice instead

[Rend Blackhand]

No, sorry, honestly can't agree with you there. Ner'zhul went from a peaceful shaman, to a war leader, leading an army of blood crazy orcs, to ultmately betraying his own people to save his own skin. Right up until he opened a portal to escape the alliance as they closed in on them, ner'zhul was still decent enough.
When he was made into the lich king and infused with the armor, he was dammed and that kinda thing would have screwed up anyone's soul.

But when it came down to it, ner'zhul's bad acts were done out of desperation and survival, well gul'dan was a purely self serving son of a bitch who only thought of power and control, even back before the orcs were corrupted, he fel to lust for power so easily. He's far more of a bastard then ner'zhul could have been.

Up until he became the Lich King, Ner'Zhul was one of the most forgiveable characters. He expressed true guilt when he realised that he had been deceived by Kil'Jaedan.

[Deleted]

Up until he became the Lich King, Ner'Zhul was one of the most forgiveable characters. He expressed true guilt when he realised that he had been deceived by Kil'Jaedan.

And then he went on to invade Azeroth a second time to gather artifacts to open portals in order to invade and conquer other worlds.

[Dreknar20]

And then he went on to invade Azeroth a second time to gather artifacts to open portals in order to invade and conquer other worlds.

well the rampant Warlock energies kinda made the Orc homeworld a not so suitable home anymore

[Deleted]

well the rampant Warlock energies kinda made the Orc homeworld a not so suitable home anymore

And whose fault was that?

[Combatbutler]

And whose fault was that?

Yes he doomed his people and he actually tried to save them for a time, Azeroth was the only hope for them.

[Deleted]

Yes he doomed his people and he actually tried to save them for a time, Azeroth was the only hope for them.

At the cost of the lives of the innocent.

[Screwtape]

You know what we need? A novel covering the events of the First War. We have Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal for the second war and various sources for the Third. Good way to put Blackhand's character out there and also a fair excuse to chuck in a few more bits about Lothar for the Alliance fans.

You mean we need a novel where that tool mage in Dalaran is transported back in time with a panda and proves that he's the greatest mage ever and everything good actually came from him.

[Trassk]

You mean we need a novel where that tool mage in Dalaran is transported back in time with a panda and proves that he's the greatest mage ever and everything good actually came from him.

Rhonin's dead brah, let him rest.

[Zuben]

Blackhand was a puppet of Gul'dan and Gul'dan did everything for his own benefit, not for the good of the Horde. For all his faults Garrosh at least thinks he's benefiting the Horde with his deeds. So I say Blackhand was worse.

[Combatbutler]

At the cost of the lives of the innocent.

Yes, it was either that or extinction. He tried to clean up his mess, though he failed and abandoned his people and ultimately became the Lich King, still Gul'dan is the more vile character, since he wanted to sell out his people from the very beginning.

[Nathreim]

Blackhand did it for power Garrosh does it because he loves the Horde Garrosh is better but not by much.

[Trassk]

Blackhand did it for power Garrosh does it because he only thinks about the orcs and wants his daddies approval from the dead, better but not by much.

just had to correct that slightly.