Let's talk about Grimoire of Service

[Netherspark]

Does anyone really use this talent? I know some Demo locks occasionly take it but it is still without a doubt by far the least used grimoire talent. Why is that exactly? Well aside from GoSac and GoSup having much more "novelty" I think it mainly comes down to the nature of the talent: It's designed to be a bit of a burst ability but at the end of the day the passive damage from Sacrifice and Supremacy offer very similar or even better burst damage without having to use a cooldown. Even in PVP the extra utility gained from having a temporary second pet is often disregarded in favour of better overall damage.

Aside from having a duplicate Felguard for demonology (which is somewhat OP) I don't see it being used very much.

So I've been thinking about whether it should be improved or even changed altogether. Do you think it should be improved in some way, or are you happy having a talent with this limited use?

Do you use it yourself?


If it were to be changed what do you think should be done?

The two ideas I came up with are:
1) Just increase the damage of the summoned minions.
2) Forget the 'bursty' style and instead change it to give you a permanent duplicate of your current pet (with no abilities and maybe slightly reduced damage).

[nightrianna]

.... lmfao idk about other demo locks but it is a 12k dps lost to use supremacy over service xD for my warlock

[christarp]

1) Just increase the damage of the summoned minions.
So what you say is already OP (two felguards) would make them even more OP, makes sense.

2) Forget the 'bursty' style and instead change it to give you a permanent duplicate of your current pet (with no abilities and maybe slightly reduced damage).
May as well just increase damage of your pet

[Deleted]

how much of difference is service and supremecy? would i lose to much as demo using supremecy?

[MisterSoup]

how much of difference is service and supremecy? would i lose to much as demo using supremecy?

On a Patchwerk-style fight, according to SimCraft - which uses GoSup on-cooldown and during the absolute peak of it's useability - only gets a whopping ~200 DPS more out of it. The margin of human error makes it not really that valuable; you won't be able to plan to use it accordingly like SimCraft can.

[Netherspark]

Demonology often use Service for the extra Fury gain in PVE, and the extra stun in PVP. Aside from Demonology (and even then only some of demonology) using it, Service barely gets touched by the rest of Warlocks because Supremacy and Sacrifice offer similar burst and more passive damage.

The only thing that really makes Service worthwhile is the duplicate Felguard. That is why I suggested changes to it - to make it more appealing to Destruction and Affliction and possibly less appealing to Demonology.

[Phoenexis]

I think it could be extremely potent as an additional "surprise" lockout in PvP, although with all the instant casts running around at the moment, any sign of innovative thought is barely rewarding... It also needs a couple of bugs tweaked (like delay on demon abilities) and the possibility to actually control the summoned demon.

[Deleted]

It is really good in demo pvp. Summon another felgaurd, it stuns them straight away and starts to felstorm. Use the first felgaurds stun all during a burst and the target is as good as dead.

Pretty bad in pve though

[Netherspark]

I think it could be extremely potent as an additional "surprise" lockout in PvP,

I think alot of people are put off using it in PVP for that because the idea of having an extra interupt tied into one of your damage cooldowns isn't particulary appealing. If you're using Service soley for the Felhunter's lockout that not only means loosing out on the passive damage from the other talents but it also means holding back on activating Service, making you lose even more damage.

My own opinion is that Grimoire of Service is just not fully viable right now: It's too good for demo PVP and too bad in all other situations.

[Deleted]

I like Service, it's the only Grimoire that allows you to use your normal demons that we've had up till MoP.

According to Icy Veins, Service is actually take-able for Affliction, Demo PvE too, "In fights with mechanics that grant a temporary increase to your damage". I don't raid so I have no clue which fights those are, but apparently it's not useless entirely. Also, if Demo wants it for the Extra Fury generation (guessing during Dark Soul) isn't using Wild Imps enough, with Supremecy's blanket DPS increase leading ahead?

Personally, I think the Grimoires really break the "Take what you want" mentality. Sacrifice was never geared towards Demo, and it seems to be pulling ahead in PvE with every else to make the other ones useless. Also, Netherspark, I think Demo has trouble with choosing demons other than Felguard in general, not just with Service.

[Skayth]

I like Service, it's the only Grimoire that allows you to use your normal demons that we've had up till MoP.

According to Icy Veins, Service is actually take-able for Affliction, Demo PvE too, "In fights with mechanics that grant a temporary increase to your damage". I don't raid so I have no clue which fights those are, but apparently it's not useless entirely. Also, if Demo wants it for the Extra Fury generation (guessing during Dark Soul) isn't using Wild Imps enough, with Supremecy's blanket DPS increase leading ahead?

Personally, I think the Grimoires really break the "Take what you want" mentality. Sacrifice was never geared towards Demo, and it seems to be pulling ahead in PvE with every else to make the other ones useless. Also, Netherspark, I think Demo has trouble with choosing demons other than Felguard in general, not just with Service.

I use service on most fights (except the slim few i go affliction for... i hate affliction). If I am at a distance from the boss and there is only one target, I use imp, (with demon training). At such a distance, my service guard tends to felstorm on his way in, slowing him down, waisting valuable uptime. (or if the boss is being very mobile). I tend to have good overall results with the imp, as he can sit right beside me and start blasting away rather than making his way towards the boss.

I use Felguard when there is more than 1 target clumped together, no matter how far away, as its a dps increase. But I use the felguard when i am close enough for him to straight charge in. (even though he does his stun still before the charge).

And the main pet, saddly is the felguard. Aoe/single still the best. I wish for single, succy was better =( i never see her.

[Erlifal]

For Arena I love G of Service I find with a healer all i need is to build up 500~ Fury and then hit every button i got most of the times i get into meta form their a global CD from death, it works great for this sort of play style where you need the burst. I have tryed the other two as well and i like them all they all work well depending on how you play

[nightrianna]

my highest burst on single target is 400k... with service both me and the other top demo locks use service, so who are these locks you say that use supremacy ?

Do u have any logs of proof?

[Netherspark]

my highest burst on single target is 400k... with service both me and the other top demo locks use service, so who are these locks you say that use supremacy ?

Do u have any logs of proof?

You're asking for proof that not every Warlock in the world uses Grimoire of Service?

[wholol]

my highest burst on single target is 400k... with service both me and the other top demo locks use service, so who are these locks you say that use supremacy ?

Do u have any logs of proof?

and who are u exactly, claiming to be a top lock? just look at the demo pvp thread here, nadagast is one of the worlds top locks and he has stated he uses supremacy most of the time, and GoSac when he wants more burst.

if you were trolling , you've failed.

[Crimsonfiend76]

my highest burst on single target is 400k... with service both me and the other top demo locks use service, so who are these locks you say that use supremacy ?

Do u have any logs of proof?

um, me<-------------- i always use GoSupreme, for me passive > burst on 2 min cd any day. same reason i dont take glyph of wild imps. i'll admit, initially it was more for the aesthetic appeal of newer minions to use, but when i do go demon (mostly play destro), im rarely disappointed w/my dps.

[Zmaniac17]

Here's what the sim's say.

http://www.simulationcraft.org/505/P...emonology.html

Gimoire: Felguard is currently the highest.

[nightrianna]

annihilare and im one of top pve demo locks

[Jessicka]

I use it because controlled damage will always beat flat damage.

[Tomed]

Supremacy is simming slightly higher but I really like the burst of Service. I think it's really up to the individual (and the fight) since the difference in DPS is so small.