How do you do Windlord Mel'jarak with classes that suck on AoE?

[Glurp]

No one really seems to have said it, but make sure your hunter takes Thrill of the Hunt as survival. It is a MASSIVE DPS increase for the add part for a minor loss in the end part.

[reflection]

Yes he said that he is able to do more DPS as a SV Hunter. But can he really be compared to a Lock, Mage, Warri, Rogue? All the raid comp videos I have seen on Youtube use a setup with many of those classes doing a lot more AoE damage.

[Deleted]

Yes he said that he is able to do more DPS as a SV Hunter. But can he really be compared to a Lock, Mage, Warri, Rogue? All the raid comp videos I have seen on Youtube use a setup with many of those classes doing a lot more AoE damage.

What difficulty is this? I mean, you're talking like those classes perform like disc priest but they are capable of pulling their weight if played right. Get the players to look around forums and stuff for class-specific tips (such as the thrill of the hunt tip Glurp mentioned) and you should get it down.

[Glurp]

Yes he said that he is able to do more DPS as a SV Hunter. But can he really be compared to a Lock, Mage, Warri, Rogue? All the raid comp videos I have seen on Youtube use a setup with many of those classes doing a lot more AoE damage.

If you're needling to class stack for the 10th boss of a 16 boss tier on normal mode then maybe you have bigger problems.

[bals]

Yes he said that he is able to do more DPS as a SV Hunter. But can he really be compared to a Lock, Mage, Warri, Rogue? All the raid comp videos I have seen on Youtube use a setup with many of those classes doing a lot more AoE damage.

are you two tanking?
just use one tank and your dps problems should be fixed. lol vengeance

[Deleted]

Your tanks will be doing most the damage on this encounter (atleast until phase2)

[Liax]

Something I see a lot of boomkins do incorrectly? Trying to do a normal rotation. Get into solar, dot shit, starfall, and hurricane.

[land]

Now next time maybe it would be best to actually do your work instead of making up a bunch of bullshit.

Sorry, ur wrong. Check this:

Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25H - Top 100 Parses - 14 Day Moving Median DPS - Showing Last 60 Days
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_...14/60/default/

Guess who's last? Boomkins, S priest, BM/SV Hunter.

Or if you prefer normal 25:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_...14/60/default/

Boomkins, s priests & hunters still close to bottom.

---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 11:28 AM ----------

Something I see a lot of boomkins do incorrectly? Trying to do a normal rotation. Get into solar, dot shit, starfall, and hurricane.

1. Our dots aren't as strong as they used to be and don't last as much as before.
2. Starfall is on a decently big cd (1.5 min, can't spam that) unless ur cycling between eclipses
3. Hurricane is good when all adds are up, however, has 2 problems: 1. will lose its power once our haste buff (that we get as we reach an eclipse) is gone, 15 sec if i'm not mistaken. 2nd problem: mana, even using innervate on ur self on cd you won't be able to just spam hurricane for a long time.

From top logs I see a bunch of ppl doing their start rotation (with a few extra eclipsed dots) and when reaching solar (at the end of our start burn rotation) then they start hurricaning till the first wave of adds are dead, then go back to dop shit up and cycle through eclipses...

[cyqu]

Hey

Yesterday we had our second evening wiping on Mel'jarak because we didn't have enough AoE damage (Hunter, Shadow Priest, Boomkin). After we recognised that the Adds just don't die we decided to change the strategy. We just smashed down the amber trappers and then focussed the boss, but we had the same enrage issues -.-

I hate it when raid comp really matters that much? Any ideas?

Thanks!

i didnt know surv hunter aoe was bad, and with all 3 members of each groups health pool being shared, how are multi dotting classes bad? if you have full dots on all 3 members of a pack that's as if you had 3 full sets of dots on 1 target. just CC the right adds, and interrupt heals, 1tank the fight if your having enrage issues.

[Yazwa]

We can dot all targets but problem is all multidoting was nerfed at The end of cata.

[Deleted]

Did you seriously not notice the other classes right next to these? all pulling higher? hmm, who didn't do their work.
Also, these numbers are for the entire fight, if the class has a strong single target or execute (shadow has strong execute) it will help balance it out, if you were able to narrow this down to only the first say 30% of the fight, these would be much further separated.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/..._Death_Knight/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ral-Cat_Druid/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...25N/Fire_Mage/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ology_Warlock/

This also comes down to the issue of, Shadow and Boomkin just don't have the option to 'switch specs'. There's no alternate int builds they can run, the only choice you really have is to replace them temporarily on this fight with a class that can pull the numbers.

Edit: I'd also like to point out, that the number one ranked s-priest, was 15th out of the dmg in his group.

There is a difference between some classes doing better and your classes sucking. You are basicly saying nobody should ever take a boomkin, shadowpriest or ele sham just because they can't be nr1 dps.

Why not go for all DK's, Locks or mages?

[Xeraxis]

Sorry, ur wrong. Check this:

Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25H - Top 100 Parses - 14 Day Moving Median DPS - Showing Last 60 Days
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_...14/60/default/

Guess who's last? Boomkins, S priest, BM/SV Hunter.

Or if you prefer normal 25:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_...14/60/default/

Boomkins, s priests & hunters still close to bottom.[COLOR="red"]

Actually I'm even more right than what I had originally posted. Person I quoted stated those classes couldn't pull above 140k on that fight yet everyone keeps linking proof that yes they can. Thanks for helping prove him wrong.

[reflection]

I think I have to talk to my guild mates again

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Actually I'm even more right than what I had originally posted. Person I quoted stated those classes couldn't pull above 140k on that fight yet everyone keeps linking proof that yes they can. Thanks for helping prove him wrong.

The original post you quoted stated that Beast Mastery hunters would be 'lucky' to push out 140k on 10 man Meljarak, and he's largely right considering that only a handful of players have broken 140k on that fight in 10s. To some degree, that's because hunters would generally go survival for this fight, but it also demonstrates the weakness of BM on this fight in the first place.

He also said shadowpriests and boomkins weren't much further ahead, which is true in this case. Only 50ish shadow priests have broken 140k on this fight in normal (of course, the best players are probably on heroic, but we're obviously not talking about that kind of guild here). http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...Priest/?page=2
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...Balance_Druid/

Really, this is all so simple to understand that I'd have to say you might be trolling.

[Quackomatic]

Hey reflection!

Not going to lie, I havent read all the responses so I apologize if I repeat something that has already been said. I run a 10 man group as well and we killed it the other night on our first real night on it. The way that we did it was with 1 tank, 3 heals, 6 DPS. For the CCing, we found that calling out 3 Amber things all the time and considering it takes ~ 1 min to kill them it was just a giant pain in the ass. We CC'd all 3 Ambers and 1 Blademaster. Assign 1 interrupter per mender and ideally have a shaman (our resto) purging buffs from blademasters and boss. The reason we did it this way was because if we got stuck in a bind and 1 heal gets off its a wipe period. So just kill them first and eliminate the RNG factor. To handle the blademasters can be a little tricky, before they do Korthik Strike they actually will put a debuff on the person who they are going to, its a 10 second debuff but they actually will do the ability after 2-3 seconds, so just look for the debuff and top the person off and a shield from a priest is enough to let them live. In a bind a pally can BoP it and it does no damage.

So all in all for first add killing phase (Menders), CC all amber trappers and 1 blademaster. On the pull lust and burst down the menders and keep people up through korthik strike.

Once the menders die we CC 1 amber trapper and 1 blade master and just kill them at ~the same time. Things to remember for the amber prisons, if you are alliance you can racial the trap the first time, if you are a mage you can blink it, pally bubble it. After all the menders die purge everything and you will no longer have to worry about it. Once you kill the rest of the adds then its just normal boss kill time which is self explanatory.

Keep in mind that even with a ideal comp killing the boss will be tight. Your DPS will really need to be on the ball. As a general figure, first set of adds should die in ~1 min with lust other wise you are just going to be behind and have the play the catch up game

Here is the comp we used.
Tank - Blood DK
Healers - 2 Shaman, 1 Disc Priest
Melee DPS - Ret Pally, Warrior, Rogue
Ranged DPS - Mage, Survival Hunter, Affliction Lock

Best of luck to you on your kill and please keep in mind that this is not the only way to do the fight. Just the way that worked for my group.

[huth]

1. Our dots aren't as strong as they used to be and don't last as much as before.
2. Starfall is on a decently big cd (1.5 min, can't spam that) unless ur cycling between eclipses
3. Hurricane is good when all adds are up, however, has 2 problems: 1. will lose its power once our haste buff (that we get as we reach an eclipse) is gone, 15 sec if i'm not mistaken. 2nd problem: mana, even using innervate on ur self on cd you won't be able to just spam hurricane for a long time.

From top logs I see a bunch of ppl doing their start rotation (with a few extra eclipsed dots) and when reaching solar (at the end of our start burn rotation) then they start hurricaning till the first wave of adds are dead, then go back to dop shit up and cycle through eclipses...

Oh no, i can only Hurricane for 2 minutes straight, the horror. By then you should have enough targets down that it isn't worth it anyway.
Also, while our DoTs aren't as strong as they used to be, they are far from useless.

[land]

Oh no, i can only Hurricane for 2 minutes straight, the horror. By then you should have enough targets down that it isn't worth it anyway.
Also, while our DoTs aren't as strong as they used to be, they are far from useless.

Each hurricane is 50k mana iirc so ur looking at max of 6 casts till our mana is gone, maybe another one with innervate + combat regen, then consider you might have some of em interrupted to movement/stuns and ur looking at less than 1 min...

[Xeraxis]

The original post you quoted stated that Beast Mastery hunters would be 'lucky' to push out 140k on 10 man Meljarak, and he's largely right considering that only a handful of players have broken 140k on that fight in 10s. To some degree, that's because hunters would generally go survival for this fight, but it also demonstrates the weakness of BM on this fight in the first place.

He also said shadowpriests and boomkins weren't much further ahead, which is true in this case. Only 50ish shadow priests have broken 140k on this fight in normal (of course, the best players are probably on heroic, but we're obviously not talking about that kind of guild here). http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...Priest/?page=2
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...Balance_Druid/

Really, this is all so simple to understand that I'd have to say you might be trolling.

And once again it's obvious you didn't even read the post I quoted. Notice how he says 'Top Parses'? We aren't talking about scrub players here, he was referring to the theoretical best which he knew nothing about.

[Nestar]

And once again it's obvious you didn't even read the post I quoted. Notice how he says 'Top Parses'? We aren't talking about scrub players here, he was referring to the theoretical best which he knew nothing about.

How have you not been banned yet? You've contributed absolutely nothing to the conversation. By the looks of it, your main doesn't even have a single MV kill yet alone HoF attempts, Please leave this conversation to those of us actually interested in trying to learn something. Me pointing out the classes that are currently lower on the charts is backed by numbers, (whether you choose to read them or not).

With that said, I'd be interested to see what kind of difference groups are seeing by leaving adds up longer vs nuking them down as fast as possible.
In shadow for example, It can be quite advantageous to run dots on a few targets rather than all of them and empty all the procs you get onto one central target.
BTW, for my 25 man, The majority of our attempts have been enrages at approx 25%. Myself and the other shadow priest in our group are sitting pretty much dead last on the meters, with about 120k at that point (before execute range, this will likely go up and we're doing steady 120k boss damage at this point due to debuff on the boss).
We've both tried various strategies and builds ranging from straight mind-sear to using it only as a filler replacement, to only multi-dotting, the overall change was pretty minimal, With about a 10k difference between the options, Divine star appears to be the best option, closely followed by cascade as far as aoe goes, (this quickly falls off once the adds are dead). but halo pulls ahead on the actual boss burn phase.

[Foto]

You should have atleast 1 melee dedicated to interupted the healer

As a boomy i was consistantly top dps on this fight - multi dot everything and stand away from the cc'd guys so starfall doesn't hit them and its just the best! Hunters have an aoe spec i think so get him to role that one but if you are having enrage issues cleave the boss more and leave adds up for longer, but ensure the healer dies just before any other adds and the blades/amber trappers die together.

More damage on the boss throughout the fight means more dps from the raid which means he will go down faster good luck!