Advanced Frost Priority Tactics (2hand)

[Deleted]

Overall I'm impressed with the information you posted, couldn't find any mistakes because it all is based on facts and not presumptions, very well done!
Dual wield might be better but most players (10 man raiders) won't be able to get 2 good 1 handers that easily, I just got my 502 Starshatter this ID and never ever saw a 1 hander drop. The other thing about 2h and DW Frost for me is: You can get much more out of the factor skill of the player while playing 2h (so much micromanagement, many non-dks wont believe it) than out of DW.

My problem exactly, I was running DW with LFR weapons and then I got the 2h from our progression raid. Also using each coin on each Elegon/Amber kill and still no luck with either axe/sword. While our 2h'er warrior got the 1h sword from roll drop. My guess will be just go with what weapons you have, the best weapon you got that you should go. Always simm your character and to be fair ignore the BiS simm untill you are there.

ps: Just a comparison DW vs 2h, now that I am 2h, strength value is smaller and haste is almost double mastery (my stats now are 6857 haste and 3527 mastery with 14935 strength). Before as DW, strength was higher and haste was about 0.1 better then mastery but almost equal.

[Rayaleith]

Exactly this for me... I looted sha touched 2H axe and slapped the 500str gem on it. Use to be DW 2x489 elegon axes. My haste is more than half strength so I grm 320 haste on yellow and str/hate on others (still too hesitant to ignore str from gem at all), while when I was DW my str was more than double of mastery.

(this axe hits good... for the time being I've seen 504K obliterate)

[Mendenbarr]

AMZ on H:Elegon for soaking the Total Annihaltion seems to bug out if you use it on yourself.

DKs can comfortably soak it with AMS/IBF and then you can help anotehr person out by using your AMZ on them.

AMZ and AMS don't stack, AMZ gets ignored when AMS is up, unless I'm mistaken. I think it does stack with other classes personals, and AMZ would stop 750k of a 1mil hit for a dk, whereas AMS would only stop 200k, half the dks hp, so I would suggest AMZ/IBF and have the soaking group stack under the AMZ. I'll try to test it, but my group already has stackers for TA, and don't want to change it up for the time being.

[SSHA778]

And to the post above me, it turned into a dw vs 2h thread because of the section where it recommended a specific spec. Knowing which is higher on patchwerk is quite good to know.

Going off the title of the thread, DW really shouldn't even be relevant here unless the DPS gap is that significant, which, unless we're talking about cleaving, it isn't.

[Nangz]

AMZ and AMS don't stack, AMZ gets ignored when AMS is up, unless I'm mistaken. I think it does stack with other classes personals, and AMZ would stop 750k of a 1mil hit for a dk, whereas AMS would only stop 200k, half the dks hp, so I would suggest AMZ/IBF and have the soaking group stack under the AMZ. I'll try to test it, but my group already has stackers for TA, and don't want to change it up for the time being.

They don't stack, however I was always under the impression that AMZ is consumed first. Not entirely sure.

[Hunty]

AMZ and AMS dont stack indeed, and AMZ works rather specific anyways. It'll only take off the damage of the first blow, regardless of absorb limit. Any damage after that just goes up to the limit, and breaks it. This makes it amazing vs one big hit, and shit vs multiple smaller ones. So, hit AMZ as late as possible. Random other damage might be eating the first blow, and devalueing AMZ overall.

[Deleted]

AMZ soak more than half the damage from Total Annihilation, if the add explodes out of the bubble.

AMS soak nearly the full damage from TA, depending on your stacks of the debuff and if the add explodes out of the bubble.

AMS can be used to soak almost all the damage incoming from dead sparks and you can use it twice every spark phase (you use it on 1st-2nd and you'll get it back on 4th-5th).

This on normal mode tho.

[Skullbound]

ATM, the majority of the community, as well all sims, point to 2hand frost being ahead of DW on single-target, patchwork style fights. It is therefore, the default suggestion. The gap is very small, but it exists.
I'm relying on simcraft showing a very clear mathy bonus to 2hand for the time being, if you'd like to continue a discussion, please present some evidence of DW beating 2hand on a reliable basis.

And it's labeled as a suggestion for a reason.





First off, the thread has 2hand in the title for a reason, you're welcome to do your own math for DW. Secondly, large samples are a good indication of average worth, if it sometimes overwrites a proc and loses you 30k dmg, but more often gives you a crit on oblit, gaining 50k dmg, the large sample tells you how much you'll get on average.
Which means, more often then not, it's a gain, even if the short term it can be a loss.

As far as DW/2hand, I'll review the sims and see what comes up.

From what I see is Lamp pulling #1 DK Parses and he's playing DW Frost.

[Deleted]

From what I see is Lamp pulling #1 DK Parses and he's playing DW Frost.

He was talking about sims. That's nothing to do with real fights.

[Equalizer]

He's also getting tricks on some of those kills. I haven't had the luck in getting 1h weapons since they goto our warriors so I am stuck with my heroic starshatter... but from this tier most of the fights are so gimmicky and can greatly change your overall dps depending on your raid's strat being used. From what I've experienced...

Stone guard - tunnel boss while others light tiles
Feng - DPS adds when shield spawns and is absorbed by barrier? Not get wild fire debuff to lose time on the boss?
Garajal - Sit on boss and not go into spirit realm
4 kings - do you deathgrip undying shadows off to the side to lose uptime on the boss? or do you just sit on the boss the entire time
Elegon - do you sit on the boss and not worry about adds?
Will of the emperor - sit on the main boss and get all those opportunistic strikes in?

Vizier - did you get MC'd? is the boss in the middle on P2 to make it easier to avoid attenuation or is it near the pillar which makes it harder to avoid and means less uptime on the boss.
Wind Lord - not much on this one, being an engineer helps in P2.
Garalon - sit on legs instead of body? are you passing phermomones?
wind lord - do you get to AoE the shit out of the adds and not focus on interrupts or single target dispelling with icy touch?
Amber Shaper - sit on boss / monstrosity with huge stacks of debuff and not worry about amber blobs
Shekzeer - Are adds tanked together so you get more cleave damage in? or are they farther apart? Were you targeted with amber resin, fixated by an add, get visions of demise, or Heart of fear?


I won't really mention TES since because I haven't done these fights and haven't since beta testing.

[Dossou]

I won't repeat what I said on EJ Mend as we've already taked but things I do to maximize my DPS include the following

1. Swing timer
2. Proper use of Plague Leech
3. Use every global. (eg. if you're waiting for an Obliterate but have over 20 RP and don't want to Frost Strike, use HoW)
4. Stack cooldowns (trinkets procs are very important to moniter
5. Utilize your cooldowns properly. Don't use Empower Rune Weapon when you don't have Pillar and both trinkets up. I generally use 1 during my opener and the next Empower with my 2nd pot, Pillar, and sometimes trinkets. It all depends on the lengeth of the fight.

See raidbots for results.