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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Why does WoWProgress put DREAM Paragon at #1 and Blood Legion at #2?
    Because the developer wanted that! No other reason. It should be Dream Paragon at #1 in 10man format.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 09:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Valen~ View Post
    You act like little kiddies... get serious and stop comparing the damn sizes!
    Dude every man is comparing sizes, all the time!

  2. #42
    Must admit that most bosses are easier on 25man this expansion.

  3. #43
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfrosty View Post
    That's why Paragon has been sitting at the #1 spot this whole expansion. Moron 25 man raider.
    That's a nonsensical argument. His point is that 10 and 25 man shouldn't be lumped together. Wowprogress can choose their rankings however they want, that doesn't change the fact that no top guild considers 10 man to be part of the same race.

    And a disclaimer, I'm a Paragon fanboy.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 09:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    10 or 25 doesn't really matter, you people act like world firsts mean something. Newsflash: Defeating pixels is not an accomplishment worth tracking.
    Yes, it is. Turn on a sports channel at odd hours of the night and you'll find all sorts of weird things where people compete, and have a captive audience cheering them on.

    Just because you personally don't care doesn't mean other people shouldn't, or that whatever it is that you care about is any more important.

    PvE progression is a competition whether you like it or not.
    When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

  4. #44
    The only way you could judge the difficulty is if you could make 25 players do the encounters once, take notes about the process, erase their memory and start over in 10-man.

    The mechanics are identical in both formats, so the experience you acquire in one size is absolutely applicable in the other one.

    So just stop being immature about it, or just slap out your cocks and put them on the table already.

  5. #45
    If a 10 man guild kills it before a 25 man guild then its still a world first......

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by parlaa View Post
    Must admit that most bosses are easier on 25man this expansion.
    No you must not say. All you can say is that 25man guilds kill bosses faster. And one of the following reasons can be enough:
    - 10man raids are harder
    - 10man guilds are weaker
    - just luck

    Considering no boss managed to survive a whole weekend, any statement regarding what format is harder is just a personal opinion and nothing more when considering top guilds.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidusbr View Post
    People only care for 10s now because of Paragon.
    People care for 10s because now it's the first time 10s actually compete with 25s. There was no 10man guilds earlier that were in the world first race.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 11:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    That's a nonsensical argument. His point is that 10 and 25 man shouldn't be lumped together. Wowprogress can choose their rankings however they want, that doesn't change the fact that no top guild considers 10 man to be part of the same race.
    Actually yes, many top guilds do. My sources? Same as yours, my ass.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ituhippi View Post
    My sources? Same as yours, my ass
    Your ass is to lazy to google, go buy a smart-ass from Apple.

  9. #49
    since Paragon is the only 'pro' guild in 10man race, its hard to even compare.

    top 20 guilds, the ones that raid from wednesday/tuesday mornings are almost exclusively 25man guilds, and only paragon seem to be doing that on 10man, since almost all guilds racing are 25man, id say its the 'real' race.

    10man just doesnt look that impressive, even if it were harder.

  10. #50
    The only time that 10m has been harder than 25m without any bias was sartharion and 3 drakes.

  11. #51
    Scarab Lord Azgraal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    The Unvanquished City of Porto, Portugal
    Quote Originally Posted by Kensura View Post
    This. I raid 25 man, and we did one reset in 10 man and that shit was a total joke in comparison.
    Care to present your armory?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Nilinor View Post
    The only time that 10m has been harder than 25m without any bias was sartharion and 3 drakes.
    Flame Leviathan 4 towers yo!

  13. #53
    Guys I do believe if you kill Sha of Fear hc first in the world it's called a world first, not sure...

  14. #54
    Since they dropped down to 10 man raiding I stopped following them. 25 man is the only raid format that counts for world firsts in my opinion, you may not agree with my views, but that's the wonderful thing about being human, we all have our own views and values.

  15. #55
    I don't see this world first race fair at all because US gets to do that stuff a day earlier than EU and when these new raids seem to be done in day or two it really does matter...

  16. #56
    Got to love all the 25vs10m arguments. For me its simple as, t14- Sha of Fear, Paragon kills it first lets say on 10man heroic
    That is is WORLD FIRST Sha of Fear heroic. Then Method/Vodka/BL kills Sha of Fear on Heroic 25man. World first 25M HEROIC, World second Sha of Fear.

    Simple as. Fight the simple logic haters.

    OT: Yes I believe so.
    Last edited by raffie; 2012-11-21 at 10:24 PM. Reason: OT

  17. #57
    As a pre-emptive note: I could care less about the "Race", I think it's absolutely laughable everyone who is not part of said involved guilds getting all up about who is better, how XXXXX guild sucks more, etc. etc.

    As far as determination of "world first" completion, let's go with this analogy:

    Got an NHL team that wins the Stanley Cup. Then we got Team Canada winning the World Cup.

    It's the same sport, but can we compare them? No, cause there is some differences (albeit not too many) in the rules (see: fight mechanics), and the level of competition is totally different (Canada doesn't get as much competition on the world stage since it's based on nationality, whereas the NHL is based on finances).

    10 man encounters and 25 man encounters are not analogous to one another. Taking 10 people who did it on 10-man, and making 15 more equally skilled people will not get the exact same results on 25-man. Things don't scale perfectly up in size, or down.

    And really, does it matter what some website on the internet says? If you don't consider 10-man on equal terms to 25man (and I personally wouldn't), then in your eyes, ignore DREAM Paragon's 10-man world first kill, if others call it a world first. You don't have to get all defensive (on EITHER side of the debate)... just ignore the others, and go about your lives.

    The sheer amount of crazy people who feel they are "taking a bullet for their team" on this forum is astounding...
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  18. #58
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that does not mean you or anyone else is right.
    Blizzard have not made any rules for the race to world first and all ranking sites show different guilds at the #1 spot.
    If anyone says that 25man is the only one that counts, thats just their opinion, not anything else.
    If anyone says that 10man is harder thats just their opinion. It is impossible for anyone to compare but i'm pretty sure that bosses are not equal.

  19. #59
    Most of the fights this tier are easier in 25 man by a fair margin, from my experience, and I raid mainly in a 10's team. Can't see where all this bollocks about clearing stuff with drunken friends and other such analogies are coming from. You can pretty much faceroll 25's this tier, with the exception of a couple.

    Every tier is relatively balanced between the two (except this one), since you always have that one boss that is extremely difficult in one size compared to the other (25m Hagara comes to mind, not sure if heroic or lfr.. switch to 10, oh now we actually need to think a bit).
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  20. #60
    Here are some facts for the "10man race" in ToES

    #1 Paragon - 3 kills - former 25man top guild in Cata
    #2 Signum - 1 kill - former 25man in HoF
    #3 КрашТест - 1 kill -former 25man in HoF

    So yes Paragon will finish first in 10man format. Sha of fear 10man HC is not the same as Sha of fear 25 man HC, by that logic the "first" kill is the normal mode one since the name is the same. There is a world first 10man HC and a world first 25man HC, it's not the same boss, just the same name.

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