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  1. #281
    Not allowing someone play a spec that is perfectly viable in a casual guild that according to OP haven't even killed 2nd boss in a normal raid after couple of weeks is laughable. I have no idea how you can defend someone getting kicked from a guild on that level if he's able to perform with the spec. As pointed out before in this thread the problem was most likely somewhere else.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    So you're doing shit DPS, you know you do, yet you don't want to swap speccs that will increase your DPS cause you are fine on enrage timers? I see no reason why this raid should carry you? Casual does not mean that you are allowed to be bad and drag down your raid. I see no problem with what has happend to you.
    What this guy said RIGHT AT START OF THREAD. No need for more discussion. Please don't make threads about things like this, if you don't get it, rtfm. Being as nice as I can.

  3. #283
    playing bad makes you bad, not respecing cause it's this weeks fotm does not make you bad

  4. #284
    If you were lowest dps and they took someone else that does more... then its understandable. If on the other hand you were doing as much as the others then they're just stupid.

  5. #285
    High Overlord Kissme's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Khargol View Post
    While this may be the blizzard era of "bring the person not the class" that doesn't exempt anyone from playing sub par specs or having bad attitudes about it. To the OP I say simply you must be flexible in raids. If you want to play destro all the time, regardless of what is better dps, then you need to form your own raid. If you dont' want the pressures of forming and leading your own raid then you need to bring what your raid wants.
    Actually, this is probably a perfect example of bringing the person and not the class. They swapped him for someone else (possibly of a different class) because they preferred a different person who was more willing to do what the raid leaders asked.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    10 or 25 ?
    If 25, then he probably wasn't the only reason you would wipe.
    If 10, Destro was on par with Demonology.
    10 man. Destruction AOE was nowhere near Demonology's AOE at that time. Not. Even. Close.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by eilonna View Post
    Then he should practice. Would you stay in a job making $8 an hour if you were offered a job that started at $7 but went up to $10 after a month?
    It´s complicated... We have a dilemma in the game and RL thinking about this... Do what you like or what makes money?

    It´s same in the game... Like zumzum said... Spending many hours playing with a spec you don´t like! It´s not funny!

    For many players, fun is doing the most damage possible! For others, fun is play what you enjoy, doing an acceptable damage! So, it´s an endless discussion! =)
    Last edited by Aruotnof; 2012-11-26 at 01:54 AM.

  8. #288
    I see no kitten to hug.

    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    I see no kitten to hug.

    I'm wondering if the OP changed his title from "fuck this shit" to "hug this kitten" or if that was the work of the mods. Because if it was the second, I find it hilarious.

  10. #290
    Scarab Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Pacific Northwest
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    You people are unbelievable... a guy likes playing his class and spec and his selfish guild demand he completely change to something he does not enjoy playing then you insult HIM for choosing to enjoy himself instead of letting a bunch of joyless douches bully him into doing what they want. You act as if choosing his favourite spec is damaging everyone around him, like it's 100% ineffective which is complete bollocks and you know it. It actually makes me sick!

    You sit there arguing over the meaning of the word "casual", attatching meanings you've constructed yourself and you try telling someone else how they should play the game like your opinion even matters to them. It's disgusting.

    Just because one spec MAY deal a little more damage per second does not make the others useless. You pretend that it's impossible to play a game without "optimizing your dps". Anyone claiming that is either incompetent or intentionly being a dick.

    "Optimizing your DPS" is utter bullshit. You people need to learn that your way is not the only way.
    I said this somewhere in this thread... raiding is about killing bosses. When a boss becomes a cock block, you start to look for ways to improve. Once you identify the issues holding you back, you have to make changes. Be that changing a spec, be that pressing your buttons harder to increase output, be that reading up on your rotation to improve what you are doing, etc... Apparently, the OP was an issue for the raid. He feels that because (in his mind) he is doing just enough to skate by... that all is well. Unfortunately, that isn't how it works. Even in casual guilds (which isn't a synonym for bad) one needs to show improvement, or at least the willingness to try it. The OP doesn't show that he has the willingness to improve. That's not the attitude to be taking. That is where the problem is. The attitude.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this probably wasn't an isolated incident. I'm willing to bet that the OP has been talked to about under preforming multiple times. What the OP has now experienced is a culmination of that. The unwillingness to improve shows a lack of commitment to the raid. Why keep someone like that when you can get other people who actually care about raiding and want to do all that they can to make bosses die?

    As I said in my other post (somewhere in this thread)... If I had been the OP's raid leader, I wouldn't have kept him either. I want people who care about what they are doing and show that they are willing to improve should the need arise. If I wanted someone like the OP in my raids... well, I would just run the LFR constantly.

    Retired | Avatar and Signature by Shyama

  11. #291
    Thing is, you aren't in a casual guild, you are in a bad guild who pretends to be hardcore.
    The way Normal raiding works in WoW now if you can't kill the boss, it's almost never because of bad dps. If you wear half-decent gear, properly gemmed and enchanted, dps should not be much problem on Normal, no matter what spec you are. Every spec can pull numbers needed for normal bosses. If your guild fails, it's because of mechanics. They are trying to blame it on DPS because it's a lot easier to go after numbers than to explain to some moron how not to stand in fire. Especially if that moron is officer's pet.

    EDIT: Oh, and don't listen to all the "unwillingness to improve" crap. Find a real casual guild. Just as many people said here, "casual" doesn't mean "bad", it's all about the attitude. Casual guilds don't treat raids like work.
    Last edited by namelessone; 2012-11-26 at 06:59 AM.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  12. #292
    Keyboard Turner Falsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    you are bad and you should feel bad

    Last edited by Elmi; 2012-11-26 at 12:50 PM.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsey View Post
    you are bad and you should feel bad
    Very constructive

  14. #294
    Brewmaster Voidgazer's Avatar
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    May 2010
    Silent Hill
    Good fucking lord, 15 pages of drama?

    Anyway, affliction always felt like the "right" spec to play, even when it was underpowered. I just like the mechanics, the dots and general theme of the spec.

    I mean, really, what's the point playing destruction if you don't get green fire?
    That's why you need me.... Need someone to punish you for your sins.

  15. #295
    Depends on where your dps falls in relation to your group.
    Not everyone can play every spec optimally, I'd rather have a warlock good at playing destro than one bad at affliction any day. If you're bad at destro too (say, bottom third in damage) on those single target fights then yeah, you should have switched to affliction. If you're middle third it's probably worth considering, and on top then you should probably tell the guild to **** off. I had a little trouble at the start of raiding with my guild, but I'm usually 1st or 2nd on damage, and only rarely 3rd. If I was on the bottom though, I'd have switched even if they didn't ask me to.

    Side note - I've raided as destro almost continously since TBC (I had quit the game for most of wrath, came back in ICC), and it never fails to amuse me when somebody (particularly another lock) is giving me grief for my spec choice and I proceed to destroy them on damage meters. Back in ICC pugs they used to apologize, with LFR I usually just get ignored. Those people are something else though. It's like, are you really trying to tell someone who just beat you by 30k dps that they don't know how to play their class? Really?

  16. #296
    The Lightbringer Tzalix's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Well, I'm in a casual raiding guild as well, but we still expect our members to do their best and push out as much performance as they can for the guild. We probably would not accept someone who knows they can do better DPS but choose not to. But we never force someone to change spec, only to do the best they can while still enjoying the game.

    And you can push out way more than "acceptable" DPS with any of the Warlock specs at the moment, if you do it right. If you get benched because you're Destruction, that just means that whoever made the decision to bench you is uninformed about the current state of Warlock DPS.
    Being called foolhardy just means regrets and limits won't ever stop you.

  17. #297
    Why do people think that if they suck at dps, it's because of the spec? You can do decent dps in any spec you choose, bar healing or tanking specs (even then some tanks do pretty good damage). Maybe you should stop thinking you are awesome at this game and try to improve by becoming a better player. That change in attitude would have led you to still be in the guild in the first place, I think.
    Last edited by Altam; 2012-11-26 at 12:11 PM.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    OP says he doesn't make stupid mistakes, unlike others in his raid. So he stays alive til they wipe.
    He also says his dps is low on fights that aren't optimal for his spec, yet it is still within range not to run into enrage timers.
    As long as the enrage timer isn't hit, the dps is not too low.
    It could very well be read that they want someone with more op dps to carry their rather weak group.
    We simply don't know without knowing numbers and what they are doing actually.

    that is simply not true, there are many reasons why dps that won't hit enrage is not high enough.
    1. is Healer mana, if the fight is going long but not hitting enrage, more dps reduces the strain on healers making progression faster.
    2. add control, better dps means better burst and burst eliminates adds faster, thus reducing chaos.
    3. your group needs a specific character for a buff, or ability like wind sheer, but they don't have the dps numbers to match up yet, the existing dps would be expected to help pick up the slack.

    those are just a few reasons.

  19. #299
    Just for the sake of it, OP's char, wowprogress and worldoflogs.


    My opinion is that was kicked for acting retarded and not because of his DPS.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruddoris View Post
    that is simply not true, there are many reasons why dps that won't hit enrage is not high enough.
    1. is Healer mana, if the fight is going long but not hitting enrage, more dps reduces the strain on healers making progression faster.
    2. add control, better dps means better burst and burst eliminates adds faster, thus reducing chaos.
    3. your group needs a specific character for a buff, or ability like wind sheer, but they don't have the dps numbers to match up yet, the existing dps would be expected to help pick up the slack.

    those are just a few reasons.
    When everyone is already performing at optimum capacity, sure, your points might be valid. But if other people are dying on bad stuff, THEY should be the ones picking up slack. The only reason to make someone change spec is when everything else is going perfectly but the DPS is still not enough. Asking someone to change spec because someone else is dying to preventable damage is unacceptable.
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