Whining Regarding T2 Weapons And Their Acquisition

[Malgru]

I think T1 should be 1800-1900 req, and T2 be 2200 still. Just my opinion though.

[Azgraal]

Adding a rating requirement to the main pieces would be a great idea. Companion pets, tabards, etc, would be great as well.

There's where i'd draw the line. As of now, only seasoned players with proven skills can buy the top quality weapons, and use them to fight the very best teams. Adding more rewards, like mounts, tabards or pets would only increase the QQ from all the people who cant get those (as pets/mounts/tabards aren't a pvp tool), and soon you'd see the requirement for pvp top tier rewards lowered to "welfare epics" rankings...

[meathead]

copied my post from another thread-


i really do not see a problem if blizz lowered the rating reg from 2.2 to 2k for tier 2 weapons.trying to go from 2k to 2.2k in rbgs with pugs is like hitting your head off the wall sometimes.you need to have a core group of 5-6 players to carry the pugs to 2.2k.sure you can find other good pvpers,but thats not always easy to do.then add the fact that alot of players stop pvping/sit on rating once they hit 2.2,makes it even more difficult to find good pvpers to run with.2k rating reg would give players a chance for tier 2 weapons if they start the season late or cant find a good rbg team. if your spec/class you play that season is bad,then there is no point even doing arena at all.

if players can show enough skill to hit 2k in rbgs/arena,i see no reason why they should not not be allowed tier 2 weapons.pvp in wow is not what it use to be "bc" and 2k weapons would not hurt the game at all.hell it might even cut down on rating selling/carries.2k rating reg still takes some skill to get to so "the noobs" will still not hit it,while giving mid-level pvpers a chance at better gear.

also keep the conquest earned requirement the same on tier 2 weapons.

[Verain]

It's funny you speak regarding the rating inflation, because this is the first season I've been to 2200+ (granted, I began PvPing actively since early s11) despite the deflation.

There is no deflation, merely a cut that eliminated some of the created rating. In fact, if you have a viable class, this is a pretty easy season. Recall that there's a ludicrous amount of rating to go around because of the cheaters- while Blizzard fixed the worst of this, there's still a bunch of 2200 people who would normally be 2050 or so this early in a season, without the free rating to go around. The exploit MADE rating, remember- the winning team who beat the cheating bads got their rating (in fact, they often got a bit more than they deserved, because the cheaters they squished had more than they should have), but the losing team did not LOSE it. The net effect was that rating was being created in large amounts.

I don't think the weapons should be a guarantee. A minimum amount of RBGs/arenas/etc played would guarantee them to everyone and everything eventually. That's not how it should work.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what they want the weapons to mean. This season, they sure don't mean much, but in general they can. Remember that even something like "win 40 RBGS or 100 arenas" is still going to shut out some people who aren't willing to do that. My point was mostly that with the weapons being only 490, which is not a very great number in pve, they don't face the issue they've normally faced in the past. There's been seasons where heroic weapons have equalled the heroic tier weapons, and as such hard mode raiders have felt forced to run arenas for an edge in progression- this new model won't do that.

Basically, these weapons, even the 490 weapons, are pretty much pvp only, so they could change their strat without messing with pve at all. That's not to say that they should.

[Mican17]

There's actually a thread on AJ about this, no one that posted in that thread thinks like this, in fact like everyone agrees that t2 weapons should be removed from game and the only 2200 rewards should be VISUAL ones/titles/mounts/anything that won't INCREASE the GAP between a good player and a bad player...

This is coming from a 2600 player and I have 3 toons with t2, i think they should be baseline because in a competitive game you should beat an opponent because of skill not gear

....Exactly.

[the9tail]

No, the T2 stat upgrade is important. In WoW, better players are always rewarded with better gear. It should not be changed, let alone just changed in PvP. If you are skilled enough to earn the T2 weapons, you deserve to keep the stat upgrade. It's not outdated, it's just a good system.

They do need to add in tabards/other rewards, however.

Lost any credibility when you think PVP is about gear.

[korbyn]

I am not a great pvp'er and have never made the 2200+ but i love to pvp and hope to get there one day.
But removing the requirement seems silly to me.. It would be like doing a heroic raid for the normal lvl gear... Reward for effort. Harder Fights deserve Better Gear.
And my way of thinking is that if you are not T2 geared, then i doubt you will fight T2 rated players?

[Deleted]

In other games and sports you get an handicap when you are new to help worse players compete against better players.

In World of Gankcraft, you give better gear and weapon to better player to help them gank players in normal battleground and to make it harder for the average player to win based on gear. In high rated arena gear is the same for everyone and skill is all that matters, so the only real reason to give better pvp playters better gear is so they can feel like pros when they gank lesser geared players or somwething. The whole system is very unlogic and stupid, but very profitable for Blizzard it seems.

That's the game we play.

The LOGIC thing would be that in PvP, everyone use the same gear so that SKILL is the factor on who win and NEVER gear....


But why on earth would anyone want to play pvp for the fun of playing pvp in WoW. It's all about gaining gear because playing and having fun on the same equal turns is not what we do here, no no.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 07:15 AM ----------

Harder Fights deserve Better Gear.

And what are the pvp players supposed to use the "better" gear for when they all have the same gear? Only time this better gear us usefull is when they fight lesser geared players, and how is that logical?

[Deleted]

Well I think, and always thought that tier 2 should be baseline due to the fact higher players don't need even more of an advantage, 2.7 Hpala here

[Raldazzar]

Typical thinking by someone who thinks he's a true PvPer... No REAL, I and repeat, REAL and SKILLED PvPer gives a damn about t2 weapons. The difference between a 2200 rated player and a 1500 one is not tier 2 weapon, it's SKILL... A 1500 player could play in s15 gear and the 2200 player could play in s12 and still win...

People who are able to get 2200 and more, Gladiator or R1 dont play for weapons, bro...



There's actually a thread on AJ about this, no one that posted in that thread thinks like this, in fact like everyone agrees that t2 weapons should be removed from game and the only 2200 rewards should be VISUAL ones/titles/mounts/anything that won't INCREASE the GAP between a good player and a bad player...

Only thing I see here is fear... Fear that a 2k player (let's assume that t2 weapons will require 2k rating instead of 2.2k) with t2 weapons will wipe the floor with you... If you are that good and skilled and think so LESS about "generally 1550 players with 20 arenas played" or 2k ones, you shouldn't even worry about t2 weapons since SKILL > GEAR/CLASS/SPEC any day, any hour...

by that logic, top tier raiders dont care about gear upgrades either. they do it for the titles.

I cant say I care personally too much but I do feel they are greatly overrated. I think what you say is true, a 2,2k player vs a 1500 would win regardless of what gear each was wearing. there is a huge gap. and that only increases with gear. and potentially even more so with this gear upgrade thing.. tier 2 + 8 ilvls.. vs honor gear. we will be tearing them up, but in other respects I think thats.. fine. Everyone on this board would have you think they are all 2.2k players.. but the simple fact is people talk alot of shit. its obvious that the majority is sub 1800. even 1500.. to hit 2.2k whilst not hard, it still is a smaller % then theyd have you believe. I dont feel ther eis a problem with people having that gear. I mean.. every battle has its generals.

[Lap]

I am seeing a trend pertinent to this - more and more players (generally 1550 players with 20 arenas played) seem to be demanding that T2 weapons be made either baseline (with the same conquest point requirement) or have their rating requirement significantly lowered to 2k or lower. This is a HORRIBLE idea as T2 weapons are one of the few things remaining that reward PvPers for their achievements in the arena or the battlefield.

I wanted to get the thoughts of the community on this despite this, however. How do you feel regarding T2 weapons and why? I think they should stay the way they are as 2200 is easily acquirable by anyone if they put their mind to it. The team inflation in 5.1 will only make them even easier to get.

From what I've read in a different thread, this is the first season you've ever obtained t2.
I understand you must be excited and proud of your accomplishment, but know this - most t2 earned this season is basically a direct (or partially mixed) result of mmr inflation prior to the reset (mine inclusive).
While I agree they shouldn't lower the rating requirement for t2, I cant help but cringe at your outlook on the issue as a whole. I think t2 should have more of a visual difference, and less a statistical difference (compared to t1) as if you manage rating enough for the purchase of such a weapon, your skills will most likely lead to success on the battlefield - not your numbers (and illuminate all the carried and piloted idiots within our communities).
Challenge Mode Gear is a step in the right direction imo.

[TheGravemind]

From what I've read in a different thread, this is the first season you've ever obtained t2.
I understand you must be excited and proud of your accomplishment, but know this - most t2 earned this season is basically a direct (or partially mixed) result of mmr inflation prior to the reset (mine inclusive).
While I agree they shouldn't lower the rating requirement for t2, I cant help but cringe at your outlook on the issue as a whole. I think t2 should have more of a visual difference, and less a statistical difference (compared to t1) as if you manage rating enough for the purchase of such a weapon, your skills will most likely lead to success on the battlefield - not your numbers (and illuminate all the carried and piloted idiots within our communities).
Challenge Mode Gear is a step in the right direction imo.

There was a lot of mmr inflation in 5s, a moderate amount in 3s, and almost none at all in RBGs. I earned T2 in all of the above before the exploit even came to light. This was the first season where I seriously PvPed.

[Lap]

There was a lot of mmr inflation in 5s, a moderate amount in 3s, and almost none at all in RBGs. I earned T2 in all of the above before the exploit even came to light. This was the first season where I seriously PvPed.

Unsure what battlegroup you're on, but on mine, once your (rbg) team reached around 2.1k mmr legitimately you started queuing into teams with 2.3k mmr that would insta-afk out (pre fix). This was once maybe every 10 games, and as a result there was huge inflation in the 2.2+ brackets.
Oh and this exploit didnt exactly 'come to light' - EU and CN players were using it since day1 of the season, and hey, i'm sure you won 95% of your games legit and put in the effort so this is really just badluck for you bad season to start dude.

[TheGravemind]

Unsure what battlegroup you're on, but on mine, once your (rbg) team reached around 2.1k mmr legitimately you started queuing into teams with 2.3k mmr that would insta-afk out (pre fix). This was once maybe every 10 games, and as a result there was huge inflation in the 2.2+ brackets.
Oh and this exploit didnt exactly 'come to light' - EU and CN players were using it since day1 of the season, and hey, i'm sure you won 95% of your games legit and put in the effort so this is really just badluck for you bad season to start dude.

We won 100% of our games legit. We farmed 2100 teams up to 2200 at which point we began facing ~2250 mmr teams that were hardfought. The RBG exploit was not widespread on U.S. realms at all, although we did seem to face -953 (etc) mmr teams every ~10 games or so. Wins vs those teams never gave us MMR/CR gains, though, just conquest points.