Confused over Fury Rotation

[Deleted]

So ive read the guide and also a couple of other guides, they all say do stuff until colossus smash when do you more stuff as illustrated by Rustynip:



The questions that i have now:
1. Do i pool rage ? maybe by missing a few gcd's or just play the normal conservative rotation ?
2. Is there a specific ammount of rage i need pool before using CS ?
3. Do i wait for the CD of Bloodthirst to be up before CS'ing ?
4. Do i ever use Heroic strike outside of CS ? If now hot utilize Deadly Calm ?
6. Some guides say use Wild Strike ONLY inside Bloodsurge while others say it can be used as a filler as well ? who is right ?
7. During burst phase is heroic strike or wild strike more important ?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid but my dps has been a bit low during raids and i really want to get better !

[vonVaffel]

1. Do i pool rage ? maybe by missing a few gcd's or just play the normal conservative rotation ?
2. Is there a specific ammount of rage i need pool before using CS ?
3. Do i wait for the CD of Bloodthirst to be up before CS'ing ?
4. Do i ever use Heroic strike outside of CS ? If now hot utilize Deadly Calm ?
6. Some guides say use Wild Strike ONLY inside Bloodsurge while others say it can be used as a filler as well ? who is right ?
7. During burst phase is heroic strike or wild strike more important ?

1. Just keep Bloodthirst on CD a couple of seconds before CS comes off CD. If you are unable to unload at least 2x WS or RB during CS (prefferably more!) then do something like a Heroic Throw. Use Battle shout as a filler before CS comes off CD for a lot of rage.
2. There is no specific number, but you want 3x HS = 90 rage, 2x RB = 20 rage optimally, and a BT which gives you 10 rage. That leaves you at 100 rage to spend not including rage gained from melee attacks or Berserker Rage.
3. You always keep BT on CD no matter what usually except for one scenario which is when you have 2x RB procs and 3 BS procs. Then you do a RB, then 3xBS procced WS, delaying your BT by 1 second to not waste a RB which is a DPS loss. tl;dr, keep BT on CD always, except some specific scenarios.
4. You can use HS outside CS a lot. A scenario is when CS is about to come off CD and you are almost capping. Seeing that you dont want to cap and are unable to do so even with WS fillers, you can do a HS to avoid capping. Same goes for usage of deadly calm. Personally, I macro DC to CS and monitor my stacks closely. I also take into account that my HSes are cheaper, so I might not pool that much rage beforehand. Other usage of DC is described above, to avoid capping rage before execute phase or in the event of possible rage cap before CS comes off CD.

I guess we can skip number 5 as it doesn't exist on your list .

6. WS can be used as fillers. This depends on what spec you are playing. As TG using the Raging Wind glyph, using WW as a filler over WS is a small dps increase. As SMF using the Raging Wind glyph can only be reccomended in a cleave or AOE scenario. As SMF you just use WS fillers as these hit harder as SMF as opposed to TG.
7. I'm not sure what you mean by this question.

The key to good DPS is good rage management, which is something all us warriors never will get down perfectly. It makes the class engaging and fun to play. Another key to good DPS is making sure you utilize the execute phase, so that you do a lot of damage in this phase. This is also quite paramount in order to do great DPS.

Hope you got some help out of this, and don't hesitate to ask further questions

As a final note, check out other DPS warrior videos and pick up stuff from them. Not to advertise too much though, feel free to check out the videos on the youtube channel in my signature. They might not be a masterclass in how warriors are meant to be played, but I dare say I'm no slouch either. Good luck!

[Roseby]

So ive read the guide and also a couple of other guides, they all say do stuff until colossus smash when do you more stuff as illustrated by Rustynip:



The questions that i have now:
1. Do i pool rage ? maybe by missing a few gcd's or just play the normal conservative rotation ?
2. Is there a specific ammount of rage i need pool before using CS ?
3. Do i wait for the CD of Bloodthirst to be up before CS'ing ?
4. Do i ever use Heroic strike outside of CS ? If now hot utilize Deadly Calm ?
6. Some guides say use Wild Strike ONLY inside Bloodsurge while others say it can be used as a filler as well ? who is right ?
7. During burst phase is heroic strike or wild strike more important ?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid but my dps has been a bit low during raids and i really want to get better !

1. No. If you follow the priority list you will naturally pool rage. You don't want to not press abilities because you feel like it might be a good idea.
It's a loss of DPS regardless.

2. Not necessarily. While more is good for heroic strike dumping, just follow the priority system well. If for some reason you don't have much rage, you either didn't follow the priority well or... well... didn't follow the priority well.

3. Not necessarily. If you look at Rusty's image, Bloodthirst follows CS. You want to hit your CS when BT is on Cooldown. If this means you spend a GCD and then have a second GCD to spend, you hit CS in the soonest available GCD.

4. Deadly Calm has a 1 minute Cooldown. I don't see why you can't use it within CS everytime. Just pop it before you use CS so you don't have timing issues.
Also you may have to use HS outside of CS sometimes, but that is more of a Bloodlust issue.
If you are above 60 rage, or 80 rage with Glyph of Unending rage, it is a safe bet by common knowledge to throw out a heroic strike. I prefer waiting for a Wild Strike, but if you are threatened with rage capping, use HS.

5. There is no 5. The cake is a lie.

6. The latter camp is right. While w/ Bloodsurge it becomes a higher priority ability (much less rage, faster ability), it is still viable to use when you run out of more viable options. I.E no enrage, BT on CD, CS on CD, DR on CD. The no enrage is signifigant because if you are not getting enraged, you aren't getting Raging Blow.

*A better filler is WW when you have Glyph of Raging Blow as Titan's Grip.

7. Wild Strike is higher on the priority system. HS is just insurance against capping. Used intelligently, you can funnel it mainly into CS sequences and get the best DPS bonuses.

You should have posted within the guide itself. I see Rusty is pretty active within his thread.
Good luck

[Mataru]

The way I see it is as long as you are preventing yourself from rage-capping, the less rage rage you spend outside of the CS window, the better. Outside of CS, I only use BT on cooldown, RB if I have 2 stacks, WS if I have bloodsurge proc or if Im close to rage capping. I usually never delay CS for BT, if Im not enraged and my BT doesnt crit inside the CS window, I use zerker rage. I have Deadly calm macroed to HS, and since I only HS inside cs window it usually lined up nicely for every 3rd CS together with Bloodbath.

[Roseby]

I wouldn't experiment with the rotation until you start getting some top 40 ranks in WoL.
The rotation will take you pretty far. Until you have a firm grasp of it, experimenting usually counterproductive.

[Maxie]

For 4. (or at least deadly calm), I'm an engineer so synapse springs, dragon roar, bloodbath, deadly calm all line up perfectly for a killer DR -> CS -> dump rage combo.

[Mataru]

Well the rotation is basically save as much rage as you can for CS without rage-capping. Using a non-procced Wild strike outside of CS and going to into CS with 70 rage because you felt like you couldn't "miss" a gcd, is a dps loss. During bad rng streaks you might go two whole BT cycles without using any abilities that cost rage, and that does feel really crappy, but that's how fury is.

[Roseby]

What is your character's name? I'd like to look you up on epeenbot/ your logs.

What you said doesn't agree with how I play my fury warrior, and I rank well consistently.

[cFortyfive]

Uhm, what is your character's name? I'd like to look you up on epeenbot.

What you said doesn't agree with how I play my fury warrior, and I rank well consistently.

You are claiming that it isn't better to miss a gcd outside of the cs window to actually have enough rage to fill every gcd within ? How is that supposed to make sense ?

[Roseby]

You aren't going to be out there spamming Wild Strike left and right outside of CS.
All I'm saying is that it is a viable filler. I have more then enough rage to fill my CS when it comes down to it.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/puyqjmqsvphniz8g/

If I'm not playing well then let me know.

I'm just giving advice from my mildly successful viewpoint.
If you use Berserker Rage intelligently, you'll have (with Bloodsurge procs) enough to flesh out a low-moderate rage system.

It would be silly to spam unprocced Wild Strikes.

[cFortyfive]

Well of course I didn't want to imply that you never use ws at all but I agreed to the statement of it being more important to have enough rage for the cs window than to use unproced wildstrikes during "maintenance".

[Mataru]

My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ataru/advanced

The one recent log I have available (can't get logging to work so have to depend on someone else doing it): http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k6jpwkrba7l0oj0o/

BTW I'm not even sure we are disagreeing, usually I am able to fill most of my gcd's outside of CS, but its just mathematically indisputable that the higher percentage of your rage gets spent inside CS, the more dmg you will do overall.

[Roseby]

Yes but you don't want to focus on that aspect so much that you are sacrificing GCD's outside of CS.
Of course you want to CD stack for CS, and proper rage dumping with CS is critical for our damage.

As long as you do well man. You are ranking very well so perhaps I shall try a bit of your methodology.
Sometimes I will use heroic throw or battle shout instead of an unprocced Wild Strike when my CS is right around the corner so as to not lose but gain rage. I'm not such a fan of waiting around and not using a GCD, rage permitting.

What I do is use Wild Strike so that I do not have to use Heroic Strike outside of CS.
With the current enrage rate, we'll have enough unprocced WS to use to prevent an errant HS, but not necessitate such a need (with good play) so as to be rage starved going into CS.

[Mataru]

It's not about sacrificing GCD's because as long as you don't rage-cap, you're never missing out on any damage. You can either try to fill every GCD because that does feel more intuitive, or you can restrain yourself and save enough rage so that you can press CS with 100+ rage(assuming mandatory Unending rage glyph). Since a HS inside CS does more dmg than WS outside of CS (not 100% sure of the math on this, but it does from what I have observed), any WS you didnt use before CS can now be redeemed for HS between GCD's inside CS.

Of course there are exceptions, such as in the beginning of a fight and you still have a few seconds of potion/reck/skull banner/bloodbath/avatar that will run out before the next cs. In that case its probaby best to keep dumping rage until your cds run out. Also there a plenty of times where BT keeps critting I basically have to spam every gcd just to keep from rage capping.

I didn't actually start doing this myself until a few weeks ago, because not using every gcd feels so wrong and unintuitive, especially if you played during wrath when you had infinite rage and could spam HS on cooldown aswell as fill every single gcd, but since I starting min-maxing my rage spending I've definetly seen an increase in performance.

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the advice and discussion !
One thing i gleamed from the advice thats different from the guide is that it is not good to use unprocced wild strikes frequently

I can not seem to pool enough rage when i use unprocced wild strikes at all O:

[Mataru]

Well the worse your gear is, the more you are punished for sloppy rage management. I don't think what I'm saying conflicts with Rusty's guide at all, but rather people are assuming that the "fillers" have to be filled.

The overall flow of the Fury's play style is to pool up and maintain enough rage to the point of nearly capping in anticipation of your next Colossus Smash, then emptying your rage bar during those 6 seconds to get the most DPS gain.

Direct quote from the guide, and that's basically how I try to play. That means sometimes not using anything during the "filler" slots. Think of unprocced Wild Strikes as an ability to use only when u are in danger of rage capping outside of a CS window.

[Maxie]

"Wild Strike is an offhand ability that can be modified by the Bloodsurge proc which lowers the rage cost and GCD of this ability. Used outside of Bloodsurge, Wild Strike is expensive and should be used as a filler ability to keep from rage capping."

[Nekked]

So ive read the guide and also a couple of other guides, they all say do stuff until colossus smash when do you more stuff as illustrated by Rustynip:



The questions that i have now:
1. Do i pool rage ? maybe by missing a few gcd's or just play the normal conservative rotation ?
2. Is there a specific ammount of rage i need pool before using CS ?
3. Do i wait for the CD of Bloodthirst to be up before CS'ing ?
4. Do i ever use Heroic strike outside of CS ? If now hot utilize Deadly Calm ?
6. Some guides say use Wild Strike ONLY inside Bloodsurge while others say it can be used as a filler as well ? who is right ?
7. During burst phase is heroic strike or wild strike more important ?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid but my dps has been a bit low during raids and i really want to get better !

1. After you CS window rage dump, you're goal is to gauge your rage generation via melee swings + BT. Still RB + WS (proc'd), but try to pool RB stacks right before CS is off CD again. RB and proc'd WS are cheap enough to be used during rage conservation. Obviously use Hthrow + Bshout during this if they are off CD

2. Try to pool enough rage so you can fill every GCD with RB + WS + as much HS as possible. 90 is a good amount

3. No, generally you want to BT before CS to proc enrage and RB. Fitting 2 BT's within a CS window while you can RB and WS instead is generally a dps loss (i.e.: BT right after CS so you BT again right before CS debuff drops)

4. Utilize DCalm for every CS, this is achieveable as its on a 1min CD and CS is on a 20 sec CD, so you can DC every 3 CS. During Blust, high incoming raid dmg (zerker stance) you HS, if you find yourself capping rage on next melee swing / BT > HS

5. Use WS as filler when rage allows, don't ever rage starve yourself when CS is about to be available.

6. WS generally hits harder than HS, HS is NOT on the GCD, fitting all available GCDs in CS is more important so unproc'd WS takes priority over HS in CS window


Basically fury rotation pre-20% works around BT > Filler > Filler > BT > repeat. With CS > RB > Proc'd WS > WS > Bshout > Hthrow priority system
Once you reach execute phase never WS, priority goes CS window EXE > BT > CS > Exe > RB. You still want to try and pool rage for CS, and dump all 4 GCDs with Execute in CS window if possible.

[Opeth69]

Anyone got the math that shows its better to literally do no non procced WS prior to a CS in order to get 100 rage saved up even if it means having empty gcds, not arguing against it just curious as to the difference gained by doing that

[Nekked]

Anyone got the math that shows its better to literally do no non procced WS prior to a CS in order to get 100 rage saved up even if it means having empty gcds, not arguing against it just curious as to the difference gained by doing that

Shouldn't be hard to test. HS in a CS window, WS unproc'd normally, then compare the damage. Without any stats to back this up, I'm going to go with WS if you will eventually have enough rage to fit all 4 GCDs in CS window, skip WS if otherwise and dump the extra rage on HS in CS window assuming your GCD capped during that debuff.