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  1. #1
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Was Azshara Born... A Troll?

    Yes I mean Queen Azshara.

    Or was she the first night elf to be born?

    We know that the well of eternity is what caused a certain group of Trolls to become night elves. No one is Queen Azshara's family brought into the light or question. She may for all we currently know she has no family for a reason... and its because she wanted nobody to know that her mother was a troll and so was she. There is no lore that shows a former king or a former queen before her. Night elves even before the gift of immortality could live very long lives.

    Tyrande is 13,836 years old as of the 3rd war. So she was almost 4000 years old at the time of the sundering. Queen Azshara is of an undetermined age, but could be much older than she appears since she magically altered her appearance. Both Malfurion and Tyrande along with Illidan have lore based childhoods, with Azshara still the queen during that time period. Maybe she was always the queen?

    In Vashj'r you get to see a statue of Vashj's mother who apparently also served under Queen Azshara. Giving you even more of a glimpse of how old Azshara really was.

    I suspect Queen Azshara was one of the first trolls to be blessed by the well of eternity and one of the first to become a night elf. Maybe this is what gave her such legitimacy and such power over her subjects. Being the first of the blessed to bless others.

    discuss
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2012-11-25 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #2
    So night elven troll origins are confirmed now? I always thought it was a rumor / speculation.

  3. #3
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    It was confirmed, but i forget when.

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    Brewmaster Olianda's Avatar
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    Read it. Face went o.O --> :O

    Never would have even thought about something like that. I can't think of anything to disprove it off the top of my head.
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  5. #5
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olianda View Post
    Read it. Face went o.O --> :O

    Never would have even thought about something like that. I can't think of anything to disprove it off the top of my head.

    The best I could think of to disprove it would simply be that Azshara is not as flushed out a character as others in game.

  6. #6
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    all elves came from trolls, however around the time of queen azshara her rule they were elves already for quite some time. having build up their empire and such.
    beside elves werent immortal in those days, so it wouldnt be weird that several generations had already passed before she became the queen.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    It was confirmed, but i forget when.
    It was confirmed in the Brann Bronzebeard journal thing, which also confirmed a lot of other stuff.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  8. #8
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felhunter View Post
    all elves came from trolls, however around the time of queen azshara her rule they were elves already for quite some time. having build up their empire and such.
    beside elves werent immortal in those days, so it wouldnt be weird that several generations had already passed before she became the queen.
    Yet their is little to no history even from sources likely educated on the subject (tyrande/illidan/malfurion) even in ancient cities you get a glimpse at Lady Vashj's family. (her mother has a statue in vashjir) Yet no say on who is the father or the mother of queen Azshara.

    Must add Lady Vashj's mother served under Azshara.

    It would not be unusual for several generations to pass. Yet their is no record of them. Azshara has such legitimacy given to her given name, not her surname She does not even have a surname

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Tyrande is 13,836 years old as of the 3rd war. So she was almost 4000 years old at the time of the sundering. Queen Azshara is of an undetermined age, but could be much older than she appears since she magically altered her appearance. Both Malfurion and Tyrande along with Illidan have lore based childhoods, with Azshara till the queen during that time period.
    Be aware, that those ages listed in the WC3 manual may no longer be accurate. The War of the Ancients Trilogy implied that Tyrande, Illidan, and Malfurion were young. So young that all of them were "novices" in their chosen paths, with no hints of them having older professions. (If they were even just over a 1000 years old by the WOTA, then they would have had hundreds of years as an adult to do something else.)

    As for Azshara, it depends on how the Night Elves in the beginning were ruled. Azshara was known as powerful in the arts of manipulation, so much that even Illidan, after getting blessed by Sargeras, had trouble not falling under her spell. Considering new lore being discovered in Pandaria, lore that implies Night Elves did exist for a short time as slaves of the Zandalari, it could be that Azshara herself was born a Night Elf and simply was one of the first to discover the connection they had to the WoE, a connection they would go on to destroy the troll empires and seat themselves at the top.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Olianda View Post
    Read it. Face went o.O --> :O

    Never would have even thought about something like that. I can't think of anything to disprove it off the top of my head.
    Me too. This is a really cool idea. Maybe we'll see a big reveal in a future expansion. But now you've spoiled the surprise. D:

  11. #11
    Can't be, she didn't say "how ya doin', mon?" when we engaged her in battle.

  12. #12
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Be aware, that those ages listed in the WC3 manual may no longer be accurate. The War of the Ancients Trilogy implied that Tyrande, Illidan, and Malfurion were young. So young that all of them were "novices" in their chosen paths, with no hints of them having older professions. (If they were even just over a 1000 years old by the WOTA, then they would have had hundreds of years as an adult to do something else.)

    As for Azshara, it depends on how the Night Elves in the beginning were ruled. Azshara was known as powerful in the arts of manipulation, so much that even Illidan, after getting blessed by Sargeras, had trouble not falling under her spell. Considering new lore being discovered in Pandaria, lore that implies Night Elves did exist for a short time as slaves of the Zandalari, it could be that Azshara herself was born a Night Elf and simply was one of the first to discover the connection they had to the WoE, a connection they would go on to destroy the troll empires and seat themselves at the top.
    this is also true, i did come across this while looking up night elves. SHe could have been one of the first born as a night elf, and maybe she was the one who broke them free of the enslavement. im sure there will be more lore flushed out on this subject

    but even with out her manipulation she held nothing but absolute authority and legitimacy, she likely had earned this and solidified it with ehr magic, but she earned it. She could have been the first troll to transform and the one who led them to freedom.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    I dont ever remember the troll ==> night elf theory being confirmed though. There was a book that talked about it but thats all I can remember.
    The WarCraft Magazine has a section in one issue that was Brann's notes, him writing down and closing some of the lore holes about certain species. One of them, Cenarius, Freya, and even the Tribunal of Ages confirmed to him that the Kaldorei came from Dark Trolls. Here is the section of the journal, which has many other branches, but I cut out the important one and the follow-up text.

    Dark Trolls -> Kaldorei
    Tribunal o' Ages. Freya. Cenarius. All o' them confirm. This'll ruffle some feathers, tae be sure.
    Last edited by Grocalis; 2012-11-25 at 05:28 PM.

  14. #14
    We all know that night elves are evolved trolls, but Azshara is (or at this point was) a highborn night elf.

  15. #15
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivick View Post
    We all know that night elves are evolved trolls, but Azshara is (or at this point was) a highborn night elf.
    a caste system that came later. the higborne were not really a separate race from the rest of the night elves.... they are now as blood/high elves. They were just the higher caste, with lighter skin due to less manual labor (as was the case for pale skin royalty/nobility in Europe) and more magic use which did not physically alter them

  16. #16
    I remember reading a looooong time ago that the well granted the elves immortality. The dragons gave it back to them with the tree after the sundering.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    I remember reading a looooong time ago that the well granted the elves immortality. The dragons gave it back to them with the tree after the sundering.
    as far i got it, was that the well had given the night elf race are long life span ( probally around the same bit longer then that high/blood elves got).
    not immortality, this was granted when the world tree was enchanted by the aspects.
    Night elves that excist nowadays have regained their normal aging process. i assume the world tree just stopped the process when they reached a certain age, cause else most elves would have died right after the tree lost its powers.

  18. #18
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    The reason there is no real mention of Azshara's mother or father is simply because they haven't been written about at all.
    Considering how long Night Elves lived for back then, Azshara would likely have been in power for quite some time already when the War of The Ancients happened.

    She was definitely not a Troll though. I remember reading that she was born with golden eyes, a rarity among Night Elves. They would only consider it rare among them if Night Elves came before her. I also vaguely remember that she was the sole heir meaning her mother/father ruled before her.

    Edit: Should help.
    this was also written before the changes to the night elf lore where they were born a separate race from trolls

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 06:08 PM ----------

    it may have also been considered rare if out of the brand new generation of elves (whether she was one of the first born, or first transformed) she out of every 1000000 had them.

  19. #19
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    zin'azshari has always been speculated to almost be troll like, zin just being a later translation (into night elfish) from zul seeing as it has the same meaning.

    Yes there were plenty of high priestess before tyrande, but she was roughly 4000 by the WOTA. but azshara had been queen even during tyrandes childhood. also lady vashj's mother served under azshara.... azsharas pretty old.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 06:37 PM ----------

    also could it be possible that the high priest of night elves, is derived from an older practice with the high priest of troll loa gods.

  20. #20
    One other point, but Azshara is a very vain person, as seen by the fact she named the capitol city after herself whenever she did come to power. The fact we have no mention of her parents or those that ruled before her may just be due to the fact she didn't want anyone to know others ruled before her, as that would make her look less "one of a kind". For all we know, she could have been her ages Xavius, simply a powerful highbourne close to the ruling caste that someday wanted to take control, and did such when it became open to her. Then, using her power of manipulation and persuasion, she simply over thousands of years "wrote out" the ruling history so that it looked like she had always ruled.

    For those that say "Wouldn't some elves who lived back during that time have pointed all this out or cataloged it?", then I ask how they forgot they even came from trolls in the first place? Back then they seemed to live more by the moment then anything else, and considering the citizens saw Azshara as a god-like being, obviously she did a good job covering it all up (one of the perks of being a master of manipulation)

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