Poll: Was tier 14 too easy?

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  1. #81
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    First tier in a new expansion has never really been too difficult, people seem to forget this.
    Like wotlk naxx80 was its first tier and it was easy, still the wotlk expansion end up in one of the hardest fights ever made. Same in TBC, t4 was nothing compared to its last tier raids. Molten Core wasn't really hard compared to naxx in vanilla...

  2. #82
    Legendary! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    The fights are definitely not too easy. However since they add so many things to help casuals clear content I would like to see a more competitive world first push that lasts more than one reset. A lot of additional interesting shit happens when a boss survives a reset. More gearing, more comp stuff, and more anticipation that's fun to watch. It's also fun to see how far people are willing to go to be #1.
    It won't happen. World first guilds have evolved far beyond Blizzard's capacity to contain them any more without extreme in-game raiding limitations (ala Lich King heroic). They have the funding and support to all be able to raid 10-12 hours a day every day, if not even more.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by hellboyy View Post
    not really, it's just the top world guilds have turned into something like championship teams with lots of sponsors and lots of money. they go about it in a very efficient way to get world 1st kills.
    This is what I think also. It is not that raids have gotten easier, it is that top guilds are just turning this into a profession.

    I think the playerbase and fansites are also contributing to making things more ´smooth´. In Vanilla, there wasn´t anywhere near the scrutiny on the devs as there is now. If there is a ´block´caused by a bug or something being severely overtuned, the devs have it thrown in their face within days and have to hotfix the encounter, sometimes in the same week. Back in Vanilla, there were plenty of instances were broken or severly overtuned content was left that way for months.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by nelf View Post
    First tier in a new expansion has never really been too difficult, people seem to forget this.
    Like wotlk naxx80 was its first tier and it was easy, still the wotlk expansion end up in one of the hardest fights ever made. Same in TBC, t4 was nothing compared to its last tier raids. Molten Core wasn't really hard compared to naxx in vanilla...
    TBC gruul and mag were easy? LOL...

    /can'tbeserious



    Normal modes I can't really judge, as they are scaled for a different crowd. Heroics so far have kept our guild pretty occupied, and outside of a few RNG boss order woes (screw you Spirit Kings), I think this tier is just fine.

    Guilds are progressing all across the board, from normals to heroics on all 3 levels. It's all valid progression right now.



    But if T15 comes out and T14 gets nerfed to oblivion... I'll be pretty sad.

  5. #85
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    The actual bosses are harder than they we're in earlier expansions.. Atleast when it comes to mechanics

  6. #86
    Going from WoWprogress, only 8.88% of the raiding population has cleared T14 in normal mode. No, it's not too easy.

    Less than 2% have cleared MSV on heroic
    Only 0.12% have cleared HoF on heroic
    Only 0.01% have cleared ToES on heroic.

    It's hard. This is good. Nerfs will come later.
    Last edited by Ryme; 2012-11-27 at 03:20 PM.
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Going from WoWprogress, only 8.88% of the raiding population has cleared T14 in normal mode. No, it's not too easy.
    It's even harder than that, since wowprogress only counts (in that percentage) the guilds that have downed at least one boss. All the guilds that have tried and failed to down anything are ignored.

    The absolute number of guilds raiding (in their sense) in normal and above appears to be down considerably from T13.

    It will be interesting to see what happens to those numbers when progressive nerfs kick in. I suspect many of the mediocre raiding guilds that would need those nerfs to start have given up and/or fallen apart, and the growth won't be what Blizzard may have expected.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  8. #88
    I think the difficulty is just right, I raid 2-3 days a week from 9-11:30 PM Server time. The World First guilds get paid to play the game, but I cannot do such things with a real life and all. We have progressed normal as fast as i believe we can with our group and we are 4/6MSV Normal and 1/6 HOF Normal. I believe the average player is close to this point, IDK maybe we suck. But what is the fun in being done in a week with the content, It is much harder than T13 and is actually interesting.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    For the average base, not even close.

    Since when have world firsts ever taken months? They usually fall within the first couple weeks at most. The only time they haven't is with LK (limited attempts) and C'thun (mathematically impossible so they say). Few other bosses have taken a few more weeks.
    Why do you leave out all of BC. Technically Lady V and KT were available at the start of BC but you needed attunements but still it took months for either of those to die.

    OT I dont believe they are too hard just takes a lot of time for the average guild to get through them all. I personally decided to quit and spend my gaming time on less time consuming games (Black Ops 2).

  10. #90
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    No I dont think so at all, I think you're just blinded by world-firsts. Iam nowhere near that level and I have a lot of fun to look forward with raids in this tier.

  11. #91
    Warchief Freedom's Avatar
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    I like T14 overall but their tuning of certain 10 man normal modes is fucked up. 70 wipes over ~2 week to kill Garalon, with 2 sec before his crash, then we go on to get Windlord to 30% ish within 10 wipes, some of those with people doing really stupid things. Oh, and don't forget Will being easier than Elegon, or how people say the first boss in ToES is faceroll, and Lei Shi from the looks of it.
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    I like T14 overall but their tuning of certain 10 man normal modes is fucked up. 70 wipes over ~2 week to kill Garalon, with 2 sec before his crash, then we go on to get Windlord to 30% ish within 10 wipes, some of those with people doing really stupid things. Oh, and don't forget Will being easier than Elegon, or how people say the first boss in ToES is faceroll, and Lei Shi from the looks of it.
    Garalon was tuned higher than intended on normal, depending on when you tried him, he was a tad bit too difficult for normal mode.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    It won't happen. World first guilds have evolved far beyond Blizzard's capacity to contain them any more without extreme in-game raiding limitations (ala Lich King heroic).
    Blizzard could contain them without even blinking twice. But then what are the odds that anyone else would ever kill them, if they made raid bosses that took the best in the world months to defeat ? Does anyone really want to spend 3-4 months doing the same boss fight over and over?

    I am curious, can someone provide some statement or something that shows these top Guilds "are funded" I keep hearing that, but I find it hard to believe a company is paying the 25 method players 50K a year to play WoW. When I watched the Blood legion video, There was nothing that indicated they were funded. Pretty sure the one fella in Law school got their by his own means

  14. #94
    Yeah it's a huge myth that top guilds are paid to play. The guilds tend to make a bit of money as an entity and there might be a bit to share around but you don't get a living wage for raiding in any guild as an ordinary player.

  15. #95
    I like the difficulty so far.

    We are raiding 3,5 hours - a week! We currently are at 4/6N in MSV and I'm happy with it. It took us ~100 tries at Stoneguards N to get them down (finally realizing that a different strategy is just better for us). After that we went through the other 3 bosses in 2 weeks up to Elegon yesterday. We got P1 straight until the end of the day and I think we|ll be hitting our heads for some weeks here - try keeping up a learning curve when you have to teach some players anew every week

    I love it that there's been no nerf/raidbuff for MSV or the other raids and I REALLY hope this will last for a long time. I hate getting my kill handed by a number (and let's be honest: nobody clicked those buffs away just for the thrills - we're gamers, we take what we can get). The soft-buff through better gear is OK with me - it's not like we'll be sitting at 509ILvl at MSV. It's more like 476-480 which is one tier above the entry level for this raid and still below the gear that actually drops IN the instance.

    So all in all:
    Although I haven't seen even the first of 3 Raids of this tier I'm really happy with the difficulty so far. I don't really care for Hardmodes since "killing that boss" is more important to me.

  16. #96
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    It seems like world firsts just zipped past us. World first in the past seemed to sometimes take months.
    Oh, you mean like Kel'Thuzad? When was he killed? Four days into the expansion? That's including leveling 25 people and gearing them to make it.
    The only time I know of that it took a long time to clear something was Naxx in Vanilla and basically most bosses in TBC. Kael took a good 5 months to clear. Ofcourse, after TBC it all became a competition so guilds were motivated to do it first, sponsors and crap... But still, it only took months on a couple of bosses. And said months had several factors included in them.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    World first in the past seemed to sometimes take months.
    When did any world first take "months"?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Pretty sure Paragon killed it at 5%, and no one else killed it til a further debuff.
    They came back and killed it at 0% months later.

    I am curious, can someone provide some statement or something that shows these top Guilds "are funded" I keep hearing that, but I find it hard to believe a company is paying the 25 method players 50K a year to play WoW. When I watched the Blood legion video, There was nothing that indicated they were funded. Pretty sure the one fella in Law school got their by his own means
    I'm sure they get some products from their sponsors to distribute and a couple of the officers/GM may get a little cash, but they most definitely aren't paying the whole guild a wage. I imagine most people in top guilds are either students or have very flexible work schedules.
    Last edited by Secrecy; 2012-11-30 at 01:49 PM.

  19. #99
    It's hard enough for me. I'm not in top 10 guild but in top 300 still it takes long enough to clear all bosses. It's perfect when you don't need to take that 100-200 pulls to get one boss down (expect in some cases) but yea I like it.

  20. #100
    notice how no one who's actually raiding has said the tier is too easy? Pretty much all that needs to be said. In fact I fully expect some nerfs before the next tier.

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