Should CRZ Go Bye-Bye On PvE Realms?

[Daedius]

I like the idea for CRZ but the way they went about it wasn't great, primarily how a set of nodes are ALL shared between numerous realms... hence forth causing a very poor circulation of mats.

They SHOULD make nodes independent to the realm, maybe even rare mobs.

What about skinners? They are reliant on mobs...

Alternatively, give the option to turn it off.

[schippie]

the idea of community is not silly at all. The silly people are what destroyed the community. And I guess Blizzard has to cater to them now /sigh

Has nothing to do with blizzard. The step after this, for modern servers will be 1 giant server. This will prevent a host of problems with to few players etc. You in the next generation of MMOs wont have the oppurtunity to pick a realm. Thats why i say a realm community is silly. It has no use anymore hasnt had any use at all in wow since 2008? 2009 something like that.

And it wont come back anymore the idea that you will have a community feel from tbc/van is just not going to return. So people demanding its removed for the communties sake are forgetting the host of other features that cripled the community (realm). And those people should focuss on the guild/friends(yes cross server friends you met in elwynn as level one are just as valid as old from the same realm friends) community from this point not the realm community.

[Schmittay]

Warcraft Adventures. Starcraft Ghost. Warhound in SC2. Streets "Dungeons are hard".

Blizzard goes back on its decisions all the time. And it doesn't really matter how much money they sunk in it. They have their own quality standards; less than 10 years ago. And they have customers voting with their wallets; more than 10 years ago.

If CRZ will drive more money away than it brings in, it will be canned. The feature has people up in arms. It will either be massively revamped or more likely dropped. Quote me on it.

Those are nothing like I was saying. That is so far off the mark I can't even begin to understand how you came up with those...wow! I'll give it a shot...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraf...s#Cancellation - they didn't "go back on it", there was technical issues and communication problems. A perfectly legitimate reason for a game not being released.

Starcraft Ghost was cancelled because of the success of WoW and Starcraft II, they simply didn't have the resources to develop this game while working on the former two, again nothing to do with "going back".

The Warhound was only on beta...beta changes...a lot. WTF man? The main issue was it couldn't be balanced against Zerg as the Warhound was meant as an anti mech unit. How many mech units does the Zerg have...?

Not sure what you mean by the last comment.

Tell me one major feature implemented in WoW (not beta, but live) that was taken out due to a handful of posts on the forum. Oh btw subscriptions are holding so them losing money over CRZ is moot. While this is from personal experience and should be taken with a grain of salt more people on my server like CRZ compared to those who don't and I am sure with tweaks they can make CRZ more appealing to those against it.

Again, how about posting ideas on how to improve it then simply asking them to take it out, knowing it will never EVER happen.

Thanks!

[Awe]

To be honest, I think Blizzard could fix a lot of the problems if they did two small changes.

1) If you attack a quest mob, you get credit for the kill, no matter if it's tagged. The tech is already there, just use it more.
2) Alter mining and herbalism so it's more like archaeology, in that each zone has nodes randomized only for you.

No offense to you, but these are terrible solutions. This will render goods completely worthless as the entire competition will take place in the AH driving prices down into the dirt, especially on larger servers. Having everyone get credit for the kill of mobs means every gets access to loot from said mobs, and that is an inequity; if I'm farming and someone whom either thinks they are helping me or is specifically trying to hijack my drops throws a dot on everything then gets to roll on what drops, it's going to destroy the game...

There is this other game currently on the market which uses exactly those two mechanics which Grocalis mentioned. My intent is not to bring up game vs. game flamefest but as for those two particular elements I find them so much better than what we have in WoW. I find them in no way "destroying the game" in this other title. On the contrary, it makes the experience more fun and less frustrating. I understand the need for resource and economy competition but that only really works well in sandbox based MMO-s (like EvE Online or vanilla SWG). WoW is a theme-park MMO with rudimentary economy system.

[Rokzum]

I hate CRZ because the lag from zone to zone (if i wanted to load each zone i'd play EQ or GW games) and it ruins community with node sharing, people are more often rude from other servers, people never want to group(which fine because there isn't really a need for it). If you don't world PvP then CRZ bugs out weight its cons for PvE. They just need to disable it and let you invite friends,or at the very least let you opt out of it.

[markdall]

Einsteins like me? What about people like you who knows CRZ is here to stay but make topics asking people if it shouldn't be on PvE realms. Without a doubt, 100%, this is not going to happen or help the problems with CRZ.

How about "Einsteins" like yourself instead make a productive topic on ways to change it to fix some of the flaws. I believe a Blizzard CM made a post on what was considered productive feedback that they watch and even implement on occasion. This sort of topic is a complete waste of time and will end up nowhere.

Edit: Not that you made the post but I just don't see why people still make threads about not liking a new feature and want it gone. I don't think Blizzard has ever taken back a major feature but they certainly adjust it based on quality, constructive ideas from the community. This thread should be locked.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 11:15 AM ----------



Yeh I've noticed this when I started a gatherer alt. If they could phase nodes to be server only it'd solve this.

It may be here to stay but that doesn't mean I won't complain about it and tell everybody I know that 1) It sucks and 2) Not to buy wow if they were considering it. All day long.

[Mnevis]

They just need to disable it and let you invite friends,or at the very least let you opt out of it.

This is what I thought it was initially, that they just expanded the ability to form a cross-realm raid into the larger world. I was somewhat appalled to see what it actually is, though really the only real problems I have encountered with it so far are the occasional lag spikes when loading a new zone, and a bunch of random people from other servers camping the rare wild pet spawns. I have yet to have found a reason to like it.

[Rokzum]

Starcraft Ghost was cancelled because of the success of WoW and Starcraft II, they simply didn't have the resources to develop this game while working on the former two, again nothing to do with "going back".

It wasn't the success of Starcraft II, seeing how it was still being developed.. lol Just that with WoWs success and SCII development they didnt have the resources to continue with Ghost

This is what I thought it was initially, that they just expanded the ability to form a cross-realm raid into the larger world. I was somewhat appalled to see what it actually is, though really the only real problems I have encountered with it so far are the occasional lag spikes when loading a new zone, and a bunch of random people from other servers camping the rare wild pet spawns. I have yet to have found a reason to like it.

Yeah thats what I thought it would be initially too. And it made me scratch my head how little it was even tested =\ I dont mind seeing others, and I'm not looking to play WoW solo(so to speak). It just seems like a big band-aid fix rather than merging servers. And you go thru these lowbie zones so fast and there is no quest anymore you need to group for. It all just seems like a waste of development.

I would've rather they spent the time with new character models, than developing CRZs

[SamR]

I like the idea for CRZ but the way they went about it wasn't great, primarily how a set of nodes are ALL shared between numerous realms... hence forth causing a very poor circulation of mats.

Number of nodes is completely controlled by Blizzard. Pandaria on release was way more crowded than Cata zones at the end of Cata, yet there were a ton more nodes available. It was hard not to trip over nodes every few feet. 7 people camping fatty goatsteak, but it was rare not to see nodes up everywhere in Tillers daily zone.

Blizzard could easily turn up node spawns in old zones to match early Pandaria(or launch condition Cata) zones. But they won't. It has nothing to do with CRZ. It's like you guys think Blizzard has no idea how many nodes are being gathered and just hasn't upped spawn rates in CRZ zones because they're clueless.

[BenBos]

CRZ is the first step in an exciting new direction for MMORPG play: ALWAYS having populated worlds whatever your level or how old the content is ...

It is the FOUNDATION of every new step taken in WoW and Blizzard's new upcoming MMORPG.

---->to the complainers about CRZ

The cross server game play is a fundamental step in assuring ALL content is manned and populated whatever the player numbers of your Blizzard MMO.

Example: If WoW would get from 1.000.000 + players to 100.000 players in your US/EU region THIS new technology will make it possible that Azeroth will be populated 10(!) times more than ANY super high/full server can ever deliver. It far out reaches an old server merge, it out performs ANY single server/realm play of the past in future design decisions by a factor of 10.

Of course CRZ is just the first step: expect MORE cross server integration in quests, world play, economy, phasing, class challenges.

So it is rather useless to complain about a personal annoyance as this is the new foundation of long term FULLY populated open worlds in Blizzard MMO's.

Learn to look beyond the present day limitations, this server technique will be extended in the future to solve the few hic ups, it is logical, since the basics are just being implemented.

Clustered server technology is not complete new (EVE had it). ...BUT it is new in a Fantasy based real landscape MMO and by making this play seamless AND without loading screens it is a small revolution in MMORPG design.

In the long run it will ensure that Azeroth will ALWAYS be populated (for questing, challenge, elite play, economy, political possibilities, guild play, friends play,...) so it is too important to make it even an option.


Btw: I am glad the vast majority sees it in this poll already.

[Yriel]

Boohoo.. I am on a highly populated realm, we've always had this "problem".

No you hadn´t. As i said before, even on highly populated realms there are times when there are no players in a zone. With CRZ there are always players in every zone, no matter if its 10pm or 5am since the CRZ system puts the players together dynamically.

[zerocarbs]

People keep saying this, but it's so vague it's honestly not useful feedback.

Please, could you be more specific in what you dislike?

People with the name 'Unknown.'

People disappearing as soon as you zone in.

Instant day/night/time changes when zoning in.

Competing with other people on quests in a game that doesn't incentivize grouping.

Being forced into world PvP with people not on my server.

[Deleted]

It should just go altogether. I saw maybe one complaint about empty servers every 3-4 months, at max. But there's one every freaking day about stupid CRZ.

[Mnevis]

Clustered server technology is not complete new (EVE had it). ...BUT it is new in a Fantasy based real landscape MMO and by making this play seamless AND without loading screens it is a small revolution in MMORPG design.

In the long run it will ensure that Azeroth will ALWAYS be populated (for questing, challenge, elite play, economy, political possibilities, guild play, friends play,...) so it is too important to make it even an option.

Well, when it's actually seamless, and when the community goes back to using local chat and pickups for forming dungeon groups, then I'll admit I'm wrong about CRZ. As it is, it makes more sense to me that if I, an adventurer of the highest level, slayer of many foes, explorer of the brand new continent, decide to duck back into some corner of the old world to collect the tiny droplets of long-forgotten infernals, there aren't a half dozen other great adventurers there already. Those are the things that actually impact me.

I get it, they're trying to put the MM back into their MMORPG (after three years of making random interactions as simple, impersonal, and unnecessary as possible). As it is, there's no advantage to the average player, and I have no idea why anyone was complaining about every corner of the world not being busy in the first place.

[Kurgosh]

I have two main issues with CRZ. One is the glitches. Random hangups when you cross zone boundaries, UI issues, all that. They're better than they were, but they still certainly exist. This is the issue that can and probably will eventually be resolved.

The second one is trickier. CRZ makes low-pop servers suffer from the extra competition of high-pop servers (nodes, rare spawns, quest kills) etc, but without any of the compensation that you'd normally get from a high-pop server. Essentially, CRZ turns low-pop servers into hybrids that are low-pop in the areas where that's a disadvantage (current content, economy) and high-pop in the areas where _that's_ a disadvantage (resource competition). The worst of both worlds. That'll be hard to fix, I expect.

Then there are the peripheral issues, like server clocks being different (screwing up things like the fishing derbies, spawn timers, etc), and target detection problems where you fly over a rare mob, but when you get off the flight path it's gone because you crossed realms.

I also felt like they really hosed up the one good reason to do it in PVE. The group quests that were so hard to complete before would have been helped by CRZ, but the same patch that brought us CRZ removed all the difficult (and fun) quests. I was so sad the first time I got to Razzarius after Cata. Who was this wimp? WTF?

[zerocarbs]

Aside from some issues with things like rare spawns and gathering, I like cross realm. It's nice to see people out in the world, and not just another lonely single player game.

Same result but better effect could have been accomplished with server merges.

I think what people aren't realizing is that CRZ has more to do with Blizzard testing new technology rather than helping the community.

[ranthalas]

Poorly implemented: lock-up/jerkiness when switching zones (possibly due to add-ons ??) . Quest mobs that you have to wait on respawns for akin to when TBC first came out and everyone rushed HFP. Those are the two legitimate complaints, then we have the ohnoes! they took all my ore!

If quest mobs (single mob quest spawn type of thing) were done the way they are in MoP for old world (i.e. anyone who helps gets credit) and they could reduce the hiccup when switching zones (or preferably eliminate it) I don't think CRZ would be quite as badly received.

[Blackmist]

They should just fix the bugs in it. It's a good idea. The world should be populated.

However, it does point out a large number of shit things in WoW. Over-competition for resources, quest mobs/items, etc. Those also need fixing. The game should make you pleased to see other players. It's nice that large quest "bosses" are now untaggable, but this needs to go further IMO. Personal resource nodes, and XP/loot rewards for just helping people out would be nice features.

[BenBos]

I have two main issues with CRZ. One is the glitches. Random hangups when you cross zone boundaries, UI issues, all that. They're better than they were, but they still certainly exist. This is the issue that can and probably will eventually be resolved.

The second one is trickier. CRZ makes low-pop servers suffer from the extra competition of high-pop servers (nodes, rare spawns, quest kills) etc, but without any of the compensation that you'd normally get from a high-pop server. Essentially, CRZ turns low-pop servers into hybrids that are low-pop in the areas where that's a disadvantage (current content, economy) and high-pop in the areas where _that's_ a disadvantage (resource competition). The worst of both worlds. That'll be hard to fix, I expect.

Then there are the peripheral issues, like server clocks being different (screwing up things like the fishing derbies, spawn timers, etc), and target detection problems where you fly over a rare mob, but when you get off the flight path it's gone because you crossed realms.

I also felt like they really hosed up the one good reason to do it in PVE. The group quests that were so hard to complete before would have been helped by CRZ, but the same patch that brought us CRZ removed all the difficult (and fun) quests. I was so sad the first time I got to Razzarius after Cata. Who was this wimp? WTF?

Those 2 "problems" you mention are peanuts compared to the FUTURE possibilities of cross server open world play really.

It is like saying: look automobiles can not be trusted mechanically in 1888, so let's not continue and go along with horses...

----

With CROSS server technology (Blizzard started already it in 2006 with those BG's and later added dungeons in 2009 etc) you defy any population problem of your MMO in the long run...

You no longer will speak about "realms" in a few years time.

The so called "community" of a Realm is not something fixed or defined. It is JUST THE RESULT of the technology LIMITS that were put forward in Massive On Line play during the past years ....

MUDS: 100 people could play at the same time.

Present day MMORPG's single realm play: 2 K people (divided in 2 faction) play at the same time. Since on average only 20% is on line, a server these days holds around 10K different accounts ...

But that's simply because of the technological LIMITS.

Those limits will now be BREACHED in Blizzard's next MMO and in WOW.

Example:

---> EVE NEVER had these issues because they had ONE server cluster to play on and regrouped 300.000 players. It was easier for them as >EVE does not have a world, not even a gravity, nor landscapes to deal with,... only empty space filled with space ships.

The BASIC of EVE play are the corporations (their equivalent of guilds): they make the game, the same will happen to Blizzard's new MMO and WOW within just a couple of years.

The fact that this NEW technology (for a landscape based game) has been implemented (seamless and without loading screens) just makes your new Azeroth BIG, much bigger than the single full realm play we are used to...

WHY ? Because cross server play allows to let an MMORPG flourish because it will be INDEPENDANT of single server (realm) play.

The basics will be guild play - independant of server technology.

ALSO:

Moaning about non adapted content for this CRZ is silly: the game just introduced this new technology: you can't expect ALL content to be adapted the second they introduced open world play across servers.

BUT there IS already LOTS of old content being replayed en mass: the PvP zones of Outland are just one example. No doubt there will be incensitives to adapt new mechanism now this new CRZ is in play.

Conclusion:

Look : everyone complained about cross server BG's (without them you wouldn't have 70+ bracketed BG's), everyone complained about cross server dungeons (without them NO lower dungeons would EVER be played again), everyone complained about phasing (without phasing it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have farms grow in your world). Now everyone complains about a NEW technology that will open up WOW to EVER lasting populated worlds whatever the LEVEL or the content.

Silly people really. it is quite obvious with the many examples shown in the conclusion part that a lot of players have NO CLUE about MMORPG design whatsoever.

Or they would design games which left people stranded on single server play with 10 dudes waiting for each other... and NO the "old" merges" don't help s hit, because you only populate the higher zones, NOT every zone and every content from lvl1 to lvl 90 /+...

This is NEW technology and it stunned me Blizzard could implement it in a legacy system like WOW in such a short time.

No doubt CRZ is the first step in a complete NEW and exciting way to play in open worlds without EVER having to worry about dying populations. Like I said earlier: WOW could loose 95% of its players and with cross server play Azeroth will be filled 10 times more than the biggest server (realm) could ever hold...

[velde046]

I can understand why people would want it for PvP servers, they get the world PvP that they think they didn't used to have. But people on PvE realms seem less than enamored by it and tend to be finding it quite a nuisance as per what I've been reading on the official forums.

Of course it's got a lot of problems that need to be ironed out, but should that be done only in the context of PvP servers and just put PvE servers back to normal?

Well that's if you assume it is broken. From what I read is that it is working as intended. So it basically not problems that need to be ironed out, but questioning whether this is a desired situation. And I think Blizzard is fine with it. Zones were meant to be more lively, and farming for herbs or ore, should have some competition according to Blizzard. So with that in mind I don't think there's much to 'iron out'.

Blizzard intends this to be 'normal' for PVE.