AMA Going on now.

[Ytlayol]

[RANT]
A lot of people here won't like this but the responses that I have seen to this and other threads just make me sick.

It seems to me that the GW advocates are worse than the WOW flamers that first came into the group at release. The whole concept of vocal minority that has been bandied around here springs to mind.

Between the sarcasm, threats to quit and direct critisms of A/Net, I don't know what to make of the members here any more. It seems to me like A/Net can't actually win. It's been like this since they released the game.

1. First, at release, people spend litterally hundreds of hours online and go through all of the content. Some people will argue that there is no content, others will be happy with the amount content. It depends on what a person classes as content. A group of these people start complaining bitterly about lack of content and request refunds (with hundreds of hours of game time played).
2. Next, there is a chunk of people who want some sort of progression in the game. They start complaining about end game content. As above, they start requesting refunds with hundreds of hours of game time because the end-game is not what they thought it was.
3. A/Net decide to start catering for the people who want some sort of end-game progression, however minimal, by releasing a new dugeon with scaling content. They release some new gear that has minimal impact on the players who prefer not to have progression. There is an immediate outcry from another minority who about how A/Net have broken their promises and how the game will now have 10 tiers of gear in the future. These people also start threatening to quit.

There have been at least 2 million sales of GW2 and I can promise you there a lot of diverse groups in there. The majority are probably don't fit into any of the cliques above. People complain that the answers are a bit vague. Can you blame them? It doesn't matter what they say, there are always people prepared to jump down their throats. People just keep twisting everything that they say.

Do I think they are perfect, far from it. But they are also no where near as bad as people here make out. Fractals, while also not perfect, has been one of the better sets instances that I have run, it not the best. But people will always look for something to complain about. It's in their nature.

I think I will give this forum a break for a bit. It's become a cess-pool of counter productive twaddle. I am sure no body will miss me, though, I don't fit enough into the "negativity mould". I prefer to play games for fun and not pick every decision that the manufacturer makes apart with a fine tooth comb.
[/RANT]

I like this response, it finally made me create an account for this website and just to let you know you ain't the only one who feels this way. I've been checking up on this sub-forum since the first beta weekend because i enjoyed reading what people had to talk about. There were a lot of likeable posters who I look forward to reading about what was on their mind. But now, its just exactly like you said. Those posters are gone and now this sub-forum is stuck with the people you perfectly described.

Here's hoping the people on the "constructive criticism" crusade will find something else to do with their time. Like becoming a game developer and using their great wisdom to teach the rest of the world on how to create a video game.

[Deleted]

[RANT]
A lot of people here won't like this but the responses that I have seen to this and other threads just make me sick.

It seems to me that the GW advocates are worse than the WOW flamers that first came into the group at release. The whole concept of vocal minority that has been bandied around here springs to mind.

Between the sarcasm, threats to quit and direct critisms of A/Net, I don't know what to make of the members here any more. It seems to me like A/Net can't actually win. It's been like this since they released the game.

1. First, at release, people spend litterally hundreds of hours online and go through all of the content. Some people will argue that there is no content, others will be happy with the amount content. It depends on what a person classes as content. A group of these people start complaining bitterly about lack of content and request refunds (with hundreds of hours of game time played).
2. Next, there is a chunk of people who want some sort of progression in the game. They start complaining about end game content. As above, they start requesting refunds with hundreds of hours of game time because the end-game is not what they thought it was.
3. A/Net decide to start catering for the people who want some sort of end-game progression, however minimal, by releasing a new dugeon with scaling content. They release some new gear that has minimal impact on the players who prefer not to have progression. There is an immediate outcry from another minority who about how A/Net have broken their promises and how the game will now have 10 tiers of gear in the future. These people also start threatening to quit.

There have been at least 2 million sales of GW2 and I can promise you there a lot of diverse groups in there. The majority are probably don't fit into any of the cliques above. People complain that the answers are a bit vague. Can you blame them? It doesn't matter what they say, there are always people prepared to jump down their throats. People just keep twisting everything that they say.

Do I think they are perfect, far from it. But they are also no where near as bad as people here make out. Fractals, while also not perfect, has been one of the better sets instances that I have run, it not the best. But people will always look for something to complain about. It's in their nature.

I think I will give this forum a break for a bit. It's become a cess-pool of counter productive twaddle. I am sure no body will miss me, though, I don't fit enough into the "negativity mould". I prefer to play games for fun and not pick every decision that the manufacturer makes apart with a fine tooth comb.
[/RANT]

I was starting to think i am the only one with this oppinion. thank god im not^^

[Deleted]

sad part is - NOTHING bout WvW one of the mainsell points from GW2 and the reason why i buyd this game

but now? i feel like 3th class player
theres always and everywhere PVE - sPVP..............WvW

there are big problems in WvW but A-Net just dont care and when do fixes they delete features

its insane

[Durzlla]

sad part is - NOTHING bout WvW one of the mainsell points from GW2 and the reason why i buyd this game

but now? i feel like 3th class player
theres always and everywhere PVE - sPVP..............WvW

there are big problems in WvW but A-Net just dont care and when do fixes they delete features

its insane

What issues are in WvW? I don't see any...

[Deleted]

What issues are in WvW? I don't see any...

The only issues I can think about is the zerg one, and how AoE abilities only can effect five or so targets. Arrow carts are useless when a big zerg stack up since it won't kill anyone.

Also how there aren't anything worthwhile fighting for in WvWvW, yet.

[Deleted]

1 theres only 1 statset in WvW
2 the items compared to pve way to expensive - it need months to buy complete set
3 WvW is THE goldsink ingame - pve you have to pay nothing
4 big timezone problems in EU on one langue servers
5 alot exploits possible (known for months now)
6 no new content and will never be (only 2 different maps (3 are the same just copy pasted))
7 in WvW only 1 skin possible on armor or weapon (have to pve when want look different)
8 CULLING ^^
9 nothing from A-Net to all the problems

k only 9 points for now

edit:

Arrow carts are useless when a big zerg stack up since it won't kill anyone.

you play NO WvW so you would know Siegeweapons have NO 5 target limit and arrowcarts wipe healingballs with ease

[Deleted]

1 theres only 1 statset in WvW
2 the items compared to pve way to expensive - it need months to buy complete set
3 WvW is THE goldsink ingame - pve you have to pay nothing
4 big timezone problems in EU on one langue servers
5 alot exploits possible (known for months now)
6 no new content and will never be (only 2 different maps (3 are the same just copy pasted))
7 in WvW only 1 skin possible on armor or weapon (have to pve when want look different)
8 CULLING ^^
9 nothing from A-Net to all the problems

k only 9 points for now

edit:

you play NO WvW so you would know Siegeweapons have NO 5 target limit and arrowcarts wipe healingballs with ease

I'm pretty sure AoE has an enemy limit. Though I'm unsure if it was arrowcarts, or profession specific AoE abilites. Also, false, I do play WvWvW, however, I'm not that into it so I keep all the information about the siege weapons, if that was the case.

[Cyclone Jack]

My issue with the AMA, other than not getting any actual answers, is how they acted and reacted. They said that they knew this decision would cause issues, yet they decided to just drop the news at the last minute, rather than making some posts well ahead of time discussing what they are seeing and what their plans are to alleviate the issue, and getting player feedback from that. Afterwards, they were in complete reaction mode, coupled with pushing everything off until after the holidays.

The other issue I have is how this was done a mere three months into the game's launch. You're telling me that the Ascension armor, Infusions, Agony, mechanics, and all 9 Fractals were designed, created and tested in less than three months, just so they could fill a hole they found post-launch? Bullshit.

[Fencers]

People complain that the answers are a bit vague. Can you blame them?

Yes, we can blame them.

There is no usefulness in an AMA full of rhetoric and what is essentially backpatting.

[Durzlla]

@Bovinity, I agree with just about everything you yipped about in that post! However, jumping puzzles kinda makes sense to me since I see it more as unlocking some sort of secret to give you an edge/discovering some ancient awesome thing blah blah blah my priory RPer bias, although getting an Omega Golem Suit from the EB chest did completely turn the tides of battle for my server one day, even if it was just because it allowed me and my guild to take over two keeps in the not EB map (it was the emerald one but that doesn't matter).

As for the arrow carts they're bugged, about 25% of the time I use them they only hit 5 people the other 75% it completely levels every player in that circle, so I'm going to say they're -supposed- to act like every other siege weapon where there is no cap, but then again I don't WvW -that- much (well I'm starting to) so I wouldn't know...

PS: Anyone think they should make grappling hooks so you can get into keeps without breaking the walls? I think it'd not only make the battles quicker but would also make it so zergs aren't 100% required and would allow a small strike force to sneak in and ninja a keep while the forces are elsewhere OBVIOUSLY they either buff the lords while walls up and/or while the walls aren't being sieged and/or put a cap on the amount of people that could scale walls.

IE: give the lords buffs like "Peace of Mind" +50% health and damage while not under siege (also effects guards) and "Safe and Secure" + 50% health and damage while walls/doors are intact.

[Durzlla]

Holy crap!!

Oh I know! I almost flipped a table in disbelief!

[Deleted]

Just leaving this here:
Trahearne "Moving on"
Chris Whiteside "Moving forward"

[Gray_Matter]

Love it when people take criticism of a game all personally or something.

Have already logged off at work. Just got home and saw this when I came to the site to log off here too. It has nothing to do with taking criticism personally. It's has everything to do with the value I place on my time. Would you go to a web site that showed pictures of people puking on the main page? I come to the forum to discuss the game I enjoy playing, not to see people complain and whine about everything from the size of the weapons to the the number of questions answered by a company representative. What I would have liked to see on this forum was discussions about the professions, tricks for dungeons or making gold, etc.

Well, as they say, so long and thanks for all the fish.

[Bugg]

this is starting to look like the Q&A with SWTOR devs... a bit of bullshit for the masses.
No grind? Really? Cause when I log on in LA all I see is "LFG fractsls" and when I teleport to Cursed shore I see "LFG Steel Tide".

[Fencers]

There's huge threads on every profession. Problem is, there's not very much depth to...well, anything...so it's no shock that the discussion runs out in pretty short order. Again, you can take this "Blame the players" stance like many developers also do, but if there's not much to discuss, then the fault for that lies with the developers, not the players.

And ultimately...if you want some "positive discussion" on something...then start the conversations yourself. If you see too much negative and then all you do is post complaining about the complaining...well then you're not really helping the tone of the discussion either.

Bovinity dropping truth bombs like a B52 in this thread.

I was having this conversation the other day with a guild mate from GW1. Where that game facilitated a lot of discussion in the ins-outs of actually playing the game. For us, GW2 doesn't really have that depth of thought.

Even "tips" on this or that aspect of GW2 are so obvious or general as to make one feel silly. "Just kite and then use your CC thingy." is not much to build interesting discussion on either the intricacies of group/individual class or encounter mechanics. Yet that is the solution & degree of conversation in most cases, "Just kite and use your CC thingy".

Here is how you make gold: Travel cheap, find the zerg. Spam 1 or AE skills while in a zerg. 6gp an hour on average.

The PVE components of the game are very, very shallow compared to the first Guild Wars. Which still has people debating optimal builds, specs, compositions, weapon sets, tactics and so on till this very day.

I am not even kidding-- there was a lengthy conversation the other morning in vent over a monk's placing healing skills in reverse order on the bars for optimal healing or interruption. With about 4 or our GW1 monks each having a difference of opinion, further varied by encounter.

That's real depth of design.

[Zilong]

Alright. I just read the entire AMA and here is what I honestly think:

About the game:
I just typed /age on Gw2 and it says "587 hours and 6 minutes". It is true that I have not been playing that much, sometimes I go online play some WvW or sPvP, and I was there for the Lost Shores, other than that I'm not playing much simply because alot of other games caught my attention like AC3, Hitman and alot of the Steam Autumn sales stuff. Of course some hours are AFK hours, but my main character is level 80 fully exotic geared and he has 50% of the map.

About the WvW:
I can agree that WvW was "left" out of updates and should at least have more news of the plans for it. But I disagree regarding the AoE or zerg stuff or even PvE stuff in it. I do think there is a lot to be done beyond any doubt (across the whole game too) but..

(Ill answer towards the points you raised Bovinity but just because you brought them all up in a good manner)

- AoE cap altho could be handled differently is something I actually like making the AoE less Boss (and we all know it is boss and bring problems in every game) the only thing I would prob do differently would take the cap out and make it less powerful, but Im no dev.
- Zergs, yes you are "encouraged" and they do get results and if you try is way more fun than mindlessly karma farming at Orr. But also it's up to you to break it off with a small group and play special task, I love it, and honestly it's part of the war. I already defended keep by myself on a ranger and I almost won against 20 invaders and I think it was just epic and I was the one building stuff (meaning nothing was already built for me) I killed over half and they broke in, killed one or 2 more and reinforcements got there but too late. I know you said about the strike force, but Idk what planet people are living, a ghost operation to get a supply camp that DOES help the team with 3 people is not only fun (which common is why everyone -should- play it) but do you expect to take over a castle by yourself?
- Travel time, it sucks when you die and run back and at times I think "I dont want to run back" so Ill just do something else. But I think that's something good for the game, makes me fight for my life way harder even run if I have to.
- Pve stuff. Yeah, I do think it's wierd at times but I often find a few souls doing the events and it does seem fun. I dont really see why not, I'm pretty sure all the sides of the battle have a portion of PvE lovers doing that stuff, and it's been a while since I got queues for WvW maybe for EB but didn't take too long. Some events even help the realm so why not? I sometimes feel like people don't see more than 1 side of the coin which is inevitably a goal for the devs and the best part is....in a "persistent" world finding a group of centaurs somewhere is not only cool but makes it feel real.

This is just a story that happened to me in WvW. We were battling in front of a keep small groups, and it was pretty even and fun people going down, people helping people up and all all of the sudden a few quaggans and a vet show up on our side. The result was that only 2 of our team survived and a quaggan that kept pushing alone to the keep. It was pretty hilarious to be honest and I spoke on team and I found the lost soul who "recruited" them haha. We obviously didn't get the keep but it was a fun battle with a cute turn.

About AMA:

I have to agree with Gray Matter.
The game has flaws? ALOT. But it's like any game that recently launched.
Does some of devs decision leave us with a bit of a "fear"? Yes, like any other game you ever played with content updates.
Did the AMA serve for something? Not much

Now I ask everyone of you (and I'm sure it will be just the ones with negative answers that will actually answer lol)
You are not paying it monthly and I dare you to post your screenshot /age here. You payed 60 bucks for it nothing more. I played skyrim for 60 hours and I was done with it and payed the same ammount and I think it was damn worth it.
The AMA was vague of course and how could it not be? The game is full of flaws that require fine tweaking, tweaking that can only be done with extensive research of the data POS-Launch. And I for one thought that he actually was pretty humble (unlike many other companies) to accept their faults and say "We are working on it, I did a bad call and it was my fault". As a player I do feel like there is a LOT to be done, and alot of "promises of near future" that doesn't help us".

Most of The AMA questions were about a misconception about the Ascended gear. The Pvp/WvW stuff is another area he couldnt answer, but If I'm not mistaken soon there will be a post/ama for that. Reading posts all over you can still see people are trying to play other MMOs upon Gw2 which leaves to obvious frustrations. I can't say anyone can win from all those facts.

It's rather easy to be an expert of what should change on the game, but it seems no one cares about the impact it would turn overall. I have my strong opinions on classes/builds and PvE that are "heavy concerns" but I'm not worrying about it like most seem to do (Hell, I'm still paying monthly for 12months sub of a game I don't play and that's all for a game (that despite every single design seemed and still is very good) that didnt work well togheter for some reason which I maybe played 40 hours). The new vertical progression is far from havoc people are bringing in, the scaling difficulty for the more devoted too. People get offended that they put this stuff in when it's less than 1% of the game. I think they are doing a good job catering for everyone without making the others angry but everyone still thinks they are entitled to feel angry about that. It's hard to please and get us, people.

So TLDR: I feel like everyone should actually look down a little bit or in a mirror maybe. I feel like the Halloween stuff and Lost Shore updates were awesome for a subless game so fresh (Specially the new dungeon, so cool. Its a classy better cavernsih of times). And along with it there were major flaws, the 1 time event, loot, the fragmentation of the players with the scaling difficulty and the grind mats part. But I still (for some reason) believe in it and I think the next few months they need to improve it for SURE! But I do think the community is very wishy washy and everyone loves complaining alot, let them do their job, the game is new, you are not paying more than you should after more updates we can sit and discuss.

(this comes from someone who is not optimistic nor the opposite. Im very picky/critic and realistic and I do see the player side alot, I am one.)

Feel free to eat me alive now

Edit: Hahah you can use the TLDR by just reading my bold part. That wasnt intentional XD

[Ravenblade]

WvWvW needs some love for sure and that's not just about novelty wearing off. I reckon PVP especially WvWvW guilds are having a high player burnout rate now. I am seeing a lot less of the usual suspects.

I wish their maps were more vertical with a underground paths and fortifications and some airships to take over in the air. I would put more positions to defend and hold and have key positions becoming more enhanced through them. Like real scouting/guard towers, bunkers and deployable walls. With side jobs like mine layers (mines being more deadly the more people are caught within blast radius and scrappers for underground-based siege. It is probably too much to ask for right now but I keep thinking about these things when seeing these roaming clusters of players sometimes.

[Lucky_]

I am not even kidding-- there was a lengthy conversation the other morning in vent over a monk's placing healing skills in reverse order on the bars for optimal healing or interruption. With about 4 or our GW1 monks each having a difference of opinion, further varied by encounter.

That's real depth of design.

I just wanted to chip in on this one: this was norm in GW1. Optimal placement of buttons to properly combo skills with extreme speed and precision was paramount to success in GW1. This didn't just go for monks (who were one of the most act<>react dependent characters in the game) but for more act>react characters like warriors and react>act characters like mesmers.

GW1 on basic design level was built on same base as WoW - easy to get into, but incredible amount of depth as you learn the game. There literally was no player, at any point in the game, who could truly say that he mastered GW1, just like there's really no player who could say the same for WoW. Both these games have incredible amount of depth, and the more you dig, the more you find that you have far more to dig into.

GW2 is exact opposite: fairly difficult to get into, and once you get the basics, that's it. There is no additional depth anywhere. There is nothing new to master. And it is receiving a lot of shit for it, something it completely deserves. Because designing things with this paradigm and advertising it to be "successor of a game with exact opposite" is lying.

[Fencers]

GW1 on basic design level was built on same base as WoW - easy to get into, but incredible amount of depth as you learn the game. There literally was no player, at any point in the game, who could truly say that he mastered GW1

It's funny you should say this because our GvG monks said the exact same as bold. In nearly the same words.

Just the degree of depth in a concept such as... hiding your true mana involved a cascade of composition, skill, build and oppositional considerations easily among the most intricate of concepts in execution of any video game.

GW2 is exact opposite: fairly difficult to get into, and once you get the basics, that's it. There is no additional depth anywhere. There is nothing new to master. And it is receiving a lot of shit for it, something it completely deserves. Because designing things with this paradigm and advertising it to be "successor of a game with exact opposite" is lying.

I struck out and snipped the bits of your post that were too zealous or incorrect. For example, GW2 is pretty straightforward. Not at all difficult to get into.

The bulk of what you are saying is correct here in observable mechanics and spirit of design. The bolded part again is well stated, if a bit sharp. But I am a-okay with sharply pointed critique.

You hit some real good points here, Lucky. Ones which I and guild mates have expressed as longtime players of the franchise.

[Deleted]

I think they are doing a good job catering for everyone without making the others angry but everyone still thinks they are entitled to feel angry about that.

It's impossible to cater to both vertical and horizontal progression "lovers", so no, they're not doing a good job, they're pleasing the people who wanted vertical progression.
GW2, according to devs statments before the release wasn't even made for people who like vertical progession in the first place (there's a reason I and at least one other person on this forum always said to people who want WoW 2.0 to stay away from GW2, now they caved in some more people are figuring out what was the reason).

Don't mind throwing the "ascended is just 5% more powerful than exotics" and "you can do everything in greens" like some people on this very thread do.
You can also do everything while naked and with just the utilities skills and I doubt anyone does it.

As for the entitlement to feel angry, well, I feel entitled to feel that way.
I was a promise a game with no vertical progression, no grind, a game who would be released near the state of perfection and I received a game with vertical progression, grinder than some f2p mmos, a game full of bugs with little to no (well done) profession balance.