Hunters in RBG's

[Kildragon]

Hey all, I'm running with this semi steady RBG group right now and I was just wondering where Hunters are supposed to be on the meters at this point. We have 2 Hunters with us and they don't seem to be putting out a lot of damage. Are they supposed to be far behind Locks, Mages, and DK's in damage? They hurt in Arena but is it the same for RBG's. Also, is BM the only viable spec for RBG's or are the other two competitive at all?

[Deleted]

what do u mean with " on the dmg meters" this is not a raid where u have to pull 30k dps min >,<

[Kildragon]

Sorry for the confusion, I meant in terms of overall raw damage done. On my Lock I generally do anywhere between 10 and 16 mil in a single RBG depending on the map and my role. The Hunters I'm running with generally do 5-7 million damage in a single RBG. I know that Locks, Frost DK's and Mages tend to top the raw damage done, but are Hunters really supposed to be that far behind?

As a note, I have 2100 experience in RBG's so I'm not a complete scrub. I just haven't messed around with my Hunter since MoP released so I'm not sure where they are supposed to be.

[Nuadu]

There is no "spot" or "ranking" they or anyone else is supposed to be in when it comes to RBG's as each teams composition can call for a class to be more of a utility person or what-have-you. So many things can change what you or any other class can be asked to do; map, enemy team comp, score of said match, etc. If you have been capable of performing at 2100 level before then you know how to compensate for being a bit behind other classes in raw dmg numbers.

[Kildragon]

I play a Warlock, I'm asking because the two Hunters we're running with aren't putting out a lot of damage. I also know that there is no spot or ranking in RBG's, and perhaps I worded that poorly in my question.

Over the course of say 10 BG's you can always distinguish a certain trend in terms of raw damage done from players. I know that someone guarding a node or someone protecting the FC won't be as high on the damage meters as someone in the middle of a huge team fight, but once you look at more BG's you start to see a certain trend with players. The trend I'm seeing is that our Hunters are consistently doing 4-5 million less damage than myself on my Destro Lock or our two Frost DK's.

As I said previously, I haven't touched my hunter since MoP released and I was just wondering if anybody knew where Hunters are supposed to be in terms of overall damage for RBG's. People don't have a problem saying that DK's, Mages and Locks should always be on top in terms of raw damage done, so I'm asking where Hunters should be. Personal experience playing with high rated Hunters or perhaps being a pro Hunter yourself would probably answer my question the best.

Where are those Hunters at the end of BG's or where are you personally?

[Nitrix]

It really isn't worth bringing one. As BM, pets will be too easily controlled by incidental CC while BM is up (hey, good 5.1 change to BM, jk). As MM, our main burst (Powershot) works ~50% of the time. People may still bring hunters for some of their utility (ninja capping, knockbacks, etc.) but it won't be for their damage.

[Kildragon]

So their damage is supposed to be garbage?

[Mizgarth]

So their damage is supposed to be garbage?

Well what do you have them doing? Are they tasking with CCing most of the time? Are they tasking with trying to help target with the group? You aren't really giving us much to go on here.

[Kildragon]

Nobody is tasked with CC'ing most of the time. Everyone CC's so that doesn't matter. Aside from that, they aren't guarding nodes or flags. They are with the group and supposed to do what everyone else does. Do damage, CC the enemy and kill things.

There is no such thing as not targeting with the group, if a kill target is called out you swap to it. CC healers and help peel for your own team. They also don't have to waste focus on multi shotting the flag as I generally have a RoF down on top of the flag anyways.

[Nitrix]

Do you guys have any classes applying the 25% healing debuff, because if not, the hunter can do that.

[Hunterpower]

One, are you making the hunters hold bases? there's your answer for damage then, 2, was this before the patch? if so those are god awful hunters. i do 10mil minimum in a short rbg unless im tasked with defending. even after the patch they should do alot more than that unless the enemy team is killing their pets.

[Paulosio]

No cleave or decent aoe as BM explains it I would imagine.... Survival has ok aoe but Multishot isn't really viable either unless the enemy all decide to stack up nicely and explosive trap would just cause cc'ing problems for the rest of the group. Had the same issues when I did some rated bgs as marks in cataclysm and our dk and boomkins (for example) put out about 2-3 x my damage by spreading diseases and dots on everyone.

Hunter has a lot of utility but there it isn't realistic for them to put out similair damage to other classes in mass dotting, cleaving or aoe'ing situations.

[bamfrosty]

All of their damage is pure single-target with virtually no dots, so their numbers aren't as inflated as a mage or DK's.

[Kildragon]

One, are you making the hunters hold bases? there's your answer for damage then, 2, was this before the patch? if so those are god awful hunters. i do 10mil minimum in a short rbg unless im tasked with defending. even after the patch they should do alot more than that unless the enemy team is killing their pets.

I've posted in like 4 different responses that we're not making them defend bases. Just find it funny that people keep asking. On another note, thank you for finally giving me an actual response in the sense of: "I do this amount of damage if I'm not defending nodes." I really do appreciate it, especially since you're the only person to have given me any kind of numbers.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 02:13 PM ----------

Do you guys have any classes applying the 25% healing debuff, because if not, the hunter can do that.

I know you're a good player cause of your sig, but do you read the responses I'm giving? I've stated twice that we not only have 2 Warriors (Mortal Strike) but also 2 DK's (Necrotic Strike). Don't mean to be rude, I really don't, but it's just frustrating when people clearly don't read the responses but then keep making comments.

[Nuadu]

No offense but you're asking for nonsense. What one other hunter can do in his teams set up in terms of numbers has absolutely zero bearing on what you will be asked to do based on your teams plan in a RBG. It seems like your posting just to post and then don't like it when people respond. Sorry, but this thread is a bit pointless.

[Kildragon]

Not at all. I'm not sure where you guys are getting this idea from that damage output differs dramatically between RBG comps for no apparent reason. I've already stated multiple times that the Hunters don't defend bases. This is also not me looking at just one RBG, this is me looking at their damage output over 15 RBG's. We have a melee heavy comp and we have Mortal Strike more than covered. What kind of RBG set up could make the difference between a Hunter doing 7 million damage consistently and a Hunter doing over 10 million damage consistently?

I love it when people respond, I just don't like it when people respond with arguments that don't make much sense. I know how PvP works. I know how RBG's work. I know how Hunters work (for the most part). I just wanted to know if Hunters pushing out 7 million damage in RBG's consistently, given their role (no node defending, no special CC assignments, no healing debuff assignments), was low, average or above average. The most useful information of course would be Hunters telling me how much they put out in RBG's or how much other high rated Hunters are putting out in RBG's.

If people are saying that they are sometimes on node duty and can still do a total of 8 million damage in an average length gilneas, then I know my Hunters are doing something wrong.

[Spench]

Don't mean to toot my own horn, but the few RBGs I've done this season (and last season, for that matter) I've always been Top 1-3 Damage after a game where I'm actually allowed to be with the group and NOT defend a node.

This season I've been running BM and as long as they're capable of doing damage where necessary and realize when it's time to dip out of a situation, they should be fine. One thing that did beat me last time I did an RBG was a DK, so keep that in mind.

Last season I used to run as Survival in DoT Cleaves and would consistently top the meters and would OCCASIONALLY come in 2nd to a competent Boomkin.

Honestly, your hunters may be bad.

[Malgru]

Look.. don't bring a hunter to an rbg. there is not a single thing a hunter can do in an rbg that another class cannot do better. they're useless.. bad damage, cc is awful (low utility), and a massive lack of defensives in a long fight.

[Cafe]

I'd recommend this. Have them do heavy offense with you or with the group and keep track of that. Have them switch to defense and keep track of that..I'm sure you'll notice a pattern and would be able to make a better judgment.

but as a hunter I like to be around the healer and protect him. When there is not focus on the healer I change my tactic and dps down the opposition.

[Kildragon]

Look.. don't bring a hunter to an rbg. there is not a single thing a hunter can do in an rbg that another class cannot do better. they're useless.. bad damage, cc is awful (low utility), and a massive lack of defensives in a long fight.

I seem to hear this from a lot of people on a lot of different class forums. Apparently the only class that should be brought is a Mage because nobody can do what they do better.