The numbers are in:

[Hayro1]

Oh how i remember Firelands when i'd get an anevrism trying to roll my warlock rotation and burst cds and everything in full heroic epic gear and watched in horror as blue geared hunters out-dpsed me and everyone else on pretty much everything and all of the blizzard blue posts regarding the problem were like "meh, u just need more skill"

Oh the irony...

Entirely an issue on your end, Warlocks were fine then.

[Jeremypwnz]

My ilvl is 493, well below the test ilvl, and I do shitloads more than 79k in single target. Me thinks Simcraft is talking out of its hole.

I have 485 ilvl with LFR weapon pulling 79k as Survival, after the change to Glaive Toss macros so I missed a lot of Glaive Tosses throughout the fight.

[Height]

I assume Hunters just get bad when you start doing heroic raiding? Right now in LFR and in normal mode I'm topping other people fairly consistently. I'm pretty much always #1, 2, or 3 (and usually 1) My ilvl is 479 soon to be 480. I'm not really all that unhappy with my dmg.

[Nemesis003]

I assume Hunters just get bad when you start doing heroic raiding? Right now in LFR and in normal mode I'm topping other people fairly consistently. I'm pretty much always #1, 2, or 3 (and usually 1) My ilvl is 479 soon to be 480. I'm not really all that unhappy with my dmg.

its LFR... topping that is nothing to brag about... i can auto attack with my pet and do nothing else and get top 5

[darkhybridx]

its LFR... topping that is nothing to brag about... i can auto attack with my pet and do nothing else and get top 5

I'm stupid right now and can't remember anything apparently, but there's a funny vid of a hunter on Spiritbinder as BM. He does his opener then brings up D2 and plays with a friend for a while, goes back and blows some more CDs, then back to D2. I think he ended up 2nd or 3rd on charts.

[malevolant]

I'm stupid right now and can't remember anything apparently, but there's a funny vid of a hunter on Spiritbinder as BM. He does his opener then brings up D2 and plays with a friend for a while, goes back and blows some more CDs, then back to D2. I think he ended up 2nd or 3rd on charts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3VOM...1&feature=plcp

[soulcrusher]

It's not just that hunters could use a buff, fire mages are way OTT and need de tuned.

[Height]

its LFR... topping that is nothing to brag about... i can auto attack with my pet and do nothing else and get top 5

Yes, I know and that's absolutely wonderful and I acknowledged that in my post. I also do normal mode. My guild is made up of rl friends and our abilities are very different. I'll likely never see heroic encounters. I'm guessing you are seeing heroic encounters then? If so, I'm guessing hunters are terrible there when matched up with very well skilled players of equal gear in high end situations?

If anyone actually has an answer instead of a snarky response that does nobody any good let me know? I'm guessing if I'm just doing normal modes I'm not going to have as much to worry about. I've been quite regularly on top there too.

[DarkPhoenix]

Yes, I know and that's absolutely wonderful and I acknowledged that in my post. I also do normal mode. My guild is made up of rl friends and our abilities are very different. I'll likely never see heroic encounters. I'm guessing you are seeing heroic encounters then? If so, I'm guessing hunters are terrible there when matched up with very well skilled players of equal gear in high end situations?

If anyone actually has an answer instead of a snarky response that does nobody any good let me know? I'm guessing if I'm just doing normal modes I'm not going to have as much to worry about.

Unless, you know the skill level of those you're comparing to it's hard to compare whether or not you're doing well for your ilevel in comparison to others. (A messy sentence I know).

For instance I raid with a mage and we've always been on par in skill level, we've always been able to compete against each other for top DPS on most fights and its been pretty close, even last tier when mages we're pretty OP I could get pretty close to him and beat him on some fights.

Roll around to T14 and he is around 9 ilvl BEHIND me and absolutely annihilates me no matter how much he stuffs up his rotation, forgets to use potions, gets caught out of position etc.

I'm the first to admit im not anywhere close to a "top" hunter, but my mage friend has always been a measuring stick to show how i'm going, and he's blowing me out of the water with little effort.

[Nemesis003]

Yes, I know and that's absolutely wonderful and I acknowledged that in my post. I also do normal mode. My guild is made up of rl friends and our abilities are very different. I'll likely never see heroic encounters. I'm guessing you are seeing heroic encounters then? If so, I'm guessing hunters are terrible there when matched up with very well skilled players of equal gear in high end situations?

If anyone actually has an answer instead of a snarky response that does nobody any good let me know? I'm guessing if I'm just doing normal modes I'm not going to have as much to worry about. I've been quite regularly on top there too.

hunters played perfectly cannot match a slightly above average mage with 15 ilvl less gear in DPS single target.

[Libertarian]

It's quite funny to see some people in here start to realize hunters are actually in a bad place, when we said this when 5.0 hit BEFORE mop launch. It's fun when I rank in the mid 40s on WOE with 60k dps, and our moonkin (also soaking with cloak) is ranking in the mid 40s with 94k. Sure we can spout about single target, but that's not even the big problem.

The problem with hunters are:
1) Single Target Damage
2) Multi Target Damage (either buff hunters, or nerf subsequent dots 100%... 80% for 2nd... 60% for 3rd.... whatever)
3) Our pets do not properly get damage increasing buffs on most fights (Why do we not get 50% melee damage on will? Our pets move just as much as other melee. Pets can not proc poison buff on Empress. We got garalon buff weeks after the boss was out.)

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

I have 485 ilvl with LFR weapon pulling 79k as Survival, after the change to Glaive Toss macros so I missed a lot of Glaive Tosses throughout the fight.

yeah right, 79k as Survival with 485, thats on Elegon, or windlord?
never do you do 79k as SV on a singletarget fight without special buffs/debuffs

[Agilent]

Oh how i remember Firelands when i'd get an anevrism trying to roll my warlock rotation and burst cds and everything in full heroic epic gear and watched in horror as blue geared hunters out-dpsed me and everyone else on pretty much everything and all of the blizzard blue posts regarding the problem were like "meh, u just need more skill"

Oh the irony...

Warlocks kicked ass in firelands

[Dracodraco]

It's quite funny to see some people in here start to realize hunters are actually in a bad place, when we said this when 5.0 hit BEFORE mop launch. It's fun when I rank in the mid 40s on WOE with 60k dps, and our moonkin (also soaking with cloak) is ranking in the mid 40s with 94k. Sure we can spout about single target, but that's not even the big problem.

The problem with hunters are:
1) Single Target Damage
2) Multi Target Damage (either buff hunters, or nerf subsequent dots 100%... 80% for 2nd... 60% for 3rd.... whatever)
3) Our pets do not properly get damage increasing buffs on most fights (Why do we not get 50% melee damage on will? Our pets move just as much as other melee. Pets can not proc poison buff on Empress. We got garalon buff weeks after the boss was out.)

About the poison part - having your pets get the buff would be unfair because you yourself benefit from it, and would thus get like, 50-75% more psn procs than any other class as you'd have both your pet (meleeing with frenzy at 1.25 attacks per second + specials) and you proc'ing it like crazy. It was doing about 25% of my hunters damage in looking for raid when I had to get my last wisdom this week.

[Deleted]

So, for me the shit hit the fan yesterday.

I was progressing through HoF with my new guild and on Amber Shaper our Moonkin disconnected so we had to replace him, so we picked some random dude from our guild who was a 469 ilvl Fire Mage.

Since I was only learning the fight, trying out different specs and focusing more on the mechanics rather than pushing dps I was pulling around 75-77k damage in BM. I am rolling in 488 ilvl gear with an upgraded MV weapon...

The mage was able to pull the same and sometimes more DPS... I understand that this fight will favor classes with cleaves and maybe that guy was just a very good player also I am far from being skill capped but almost 20 ilvl difference and the guy almost beats me? Something is very wrong here I am seriously considering re rolling.

[Xiphias]

They could easily make it not apply to ranged attacks.

In the normal version, I don't think you can really afford to be running to the tank in order to pick up the poison, especially if you keep one alive considering you count as ranged and need to spread out while the Empress is up. Your experiences in LFR are not really applicable to the situation, since there are a lot of mechanics you can just ignore in LFR that are crucial in normal.

[Dracodraco]

They could easily make it not apply to ranged attacks.

In the normal version, I don't think you can really afford to be running to the tank in order to pick up the poison, especially if you keep one alive considering you count as ranged and need to spread out while the Empress is up. Your experiences in LFR are not really applicable to the situation, since there are a lot of mechanics you can just ignore in LFR that are crucial in normal.

Hunters have 100% mobility, and nothing stops you from running in to get the buff every so often in between dread screeches. It's really not nearly as big an issue as you're making it.

[Spiralphoenix]

About the poison part - having your pets get the buff would be unfair because you yourself benefit from it, and would thus get like, 50-75% more psn procs than any other class as you'd have both your pet (meleeing with frenzy at 1.25 attacks per second + specials) and you proc'ing it like crazy. It was doing about 25% of my hunters damage in looking for raid when I had to get my last wisdom this week.

I don't see why that's a problem. It's not like there haven't been fights that are "unfair" to hunters. Anyone familiar with Alysrazor knows mages were basically untouchable. Where's our Alysrazor? Nothing wrong with a pet being an advantage for once. Doesn't even have to have the same proc chance as it does for the hunter.

[Nemesis003]

honestly with pets totaling more then 50% of BMs damage pets should proc trinkets.

[Gotjuice]

Been singing this song since beta only to get the typical "I'm better than you" response: "Hunters are fine L2P" or "It's only beta"

What now fuckers?!