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  1. #161
    Everyone should own a gun.
    I've BUILT (machined) a .45 1911, an AR15 receiver, multiple AK47 receivers (next project a British Sterling). Building them gave me a lot of incite on how they work and function. All have no paperwork, no trail for the government and are 100% legal (in Pennsylvania).

  2. #162
    Deleted
    Ehm.

    Not that I am interested in the subject but can I jump in and group people in here?

    -People who hunt, they want guns to be allowed for that reason
    -People who want it for self defense
    -People who don't want it, at all
    -People who are reasonable and are willing to let people have guns under certain circumstances



    I have not read the thread btw and am just taking a shot in the dark here.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    If you think your arms will be able to protect you from your military arms, well gg LOL. I usually don't respond with that kind of stuff, but in this case I kinda felt I had to.

    I don't fear that I will have to protect myself from the police or military and even if I did, a handgun won't do shit against a tank. You can tell me all you want you feel safer with a gun in case you need to kill the US military someday, I'll just give you a high five and a good luck.
    Who is talking about hand guns?

  4. #164
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Yeah, done some work with our int guys myself, poor sods thought it was all James Bond Also, we have a term in the British Army, "Death by powerpoint". 6+ hours of powerpoint presentations should be illegal under the Geneva convention.
    You think watching them is bad, try having to make one

    I feel for you guys though, which is why I condense mine as much as possible.

  5. #165
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    Please, no army in the world would stand a chance against the largest gun ownership militia the world has every seen.
    Delusional.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 01:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Here in New England almost everyone has a gun and the crime rate is the lowest in the country
    I think that's more to do with the type of people that live there, rather than the fact that everyone has guns.

    I hate it when people compare Guns with 'Crime Rate'... Of course the rich, typically middle class states of New England will have lower crime rates than say California, which has a lot of poorer districts (Compton= Gun Crime capital out of the first world countries), and many immigrants.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    None of the above justify you owning functional and loaded automatic, semi automatic or such pistols, rifles, submachine guns etc. etc.
    None of the above justify you being able to transport a loaded firearm.

    The fact is guns are bad. There are no "good" uses for a gun. Even when the police is forced to use a gun, it is a horrible situation. It happens because there is no other option, because they often need to take lives to save others. It's a no win situation. Everytime a person is shot, innocent or criminal a life is taken, without due process (if you are a fan of the death sentence). And death is always final. You can't repent, change your mind or anything. And also mistakes happen.

    When you have so many guns in a society like in the US, once you try to implement gun control only the honest folk would give up their guns. So on the short term public safety would drop. It would be a decades long period untill law enforcement would be able to bring illegal guns under control.
    The only "issue" I take is that it's your opinion, and I'm not even saying it's a bad one. At some point, in an object manor, you have to step back and realize that you (proverbial) are dictating what is reasonable for another human being to defend his or herself with while leaving their opposition completely open. There are a lot of arguments against handguns, and some of them are pretty damn good. Though I've never heard the argument on why it's better for women to not have a gun and to be raped than to have the ability/option to shoot/defend her self against it.

    Most opinions against and for guns come from the most "rosy" of circumstances. However, it is the worst case scenarios in which we honestly have to look at things. "You" would nor more hand the keys of a Ferrari to a 16 year old than you should leave your weapons out in the open. I'll ask you this, if it wasn't illegal to not wear your seat belt would you never wear it?

    I find it ironic, to a sad degree, that generally people will say they would always wear their seatbelt despite the law because of the idea that "an accident can happen at anytime" and those are often beyond one persons control. Why is the idea of self protection like a gun so different? You can't ask "bad guys" to stop being bad guys. And you can only hope that the guy who broke in to your house and tied you and your family up leave you be... that isn't always the case...
    http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...home-invasion/

    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    If that is the case, I agree with him. There is little reason for the average citizen to own a handgun, Shotguns and Rifles can do most of what a handgun can do without the concealability criminals needs.
    Honestly, if you listen to the experts, they will tell you that the best home defense weapon is an AR15 not a handgun nor shotgun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Just because the police aren't able to be perfect in their protection of everyone's safety doesn't mean every person is expected to take the law into their own hands. If you are forced to do so you may be forgiven, that's all.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po...otus.html?_r=0
    Please read. If you look around you can find several cases dating back to the 1930's on this. The one that hurt the most was the mother who had a restraining order against her husband who absconded with their kids. She called the police several times and they refused to take any action. They found him later when he showed up at the police station and started shooting, suicide by cop. They found the children murdered in the back of his truck parked outside.
    Last edited by hakujinbakasama; 2012-11-28 at 01:17 AM.

  7. #167
    I'll soon be joining the club. Looking to get my license sometimes around early next year. But of a rub in this state of course, where whether you can get carry permits not only depends on the state but individual towns. Luckily I live in a "green" town.
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoranon View Post
    a) As one of the previous posters has already said, go read the federalist papers before spouting things like this

    b) Once you finish reading them, read the 2 links I provided in the post you quoted

    c) Profit and finally realise that in the US there is an individual right to bear arms, PERIOD
    In the US there is an individual right to bear arms, ELLIPSIS... subject to a certain amount of government regulation (insert legal grey area here). From District of Colombia v. Heller (2008):

    Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distric...mbia_v._Heller

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 01:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Here in New England almost everyone has a gun and the crime rate is the lowest in the country
    Let me guess, high ownership of rifles by farmers.

    Here's a bit of real information in case anyone wants to be informed on the issue as opposed to throwing partisan talking points at one another:

    One of Hemenway’s studies, published in 2004 and coauthored by Lisa M. Hepburn, reviewed commonly cited research from peer-reviewed journals. It found that studies of the United States or U.S. cities, states and regions "generally find a statistically significant gun prevalence-homicide association." The report said that the evidence from such "U.S. cross-sectional studies is quite consistent … where there are higher levels of gun prevalence, homicide rates are substantially higher, primarily due to higher firearm homicide rates." Hemenway’s report also found that international studies "typically show that in high-income countries with more firearms, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide." So where there are guns, there is likely a higher rate of murders committed with guns in particular. However, the report noted, "None of the studies can prove causation. They merely examine the statistical association between gun availability and homicide."

    ...

    The National Academies report noted that drawing a causal inference is "always complicated and, in the behavioral and social sciences, fraught with uncertainty."

    ...

    In comparing the United States to industrialized democracies, the Academies says data show the U.S. has the highest rate of homicide and firearm-related homicide. But this also raises a chicken-and-egg question. "A high level of violence may be a cause of a high level of firearms availability instead of the other way around."
    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/vio...gun-ownership/

    Factcheck is non-partisan I believe. In summary, there is a demonstrated correlation between high gun ownership and violent crime, but there's no way for a scientific study to prove actual causation. If you think about it the arguments of both gun rights AND gun control advocates imply that gun ownership would correlate to violent crime. According to gun control advocates, availability of firearms increases the rate of violent crimes, and according to gun rights advocates people need guns to defend themselves from criminals - so obviously more people would purchase guns for self defence in high crime areas. So there's no point arguing about this because (1) the matter has already been settled and (2) the findings support BOTH sides in any case. Shrug.

    Also, interesting table:

    United States 88.8 1
    Serbia 58.2 2
    Yemen 54.8 3
    Switzerland 45.7 4
    Cyprus 36.4 5
    Saudi Arabia 35 6
    Iraq 34.2 7
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_...ita_by_country

    Look who your bedfellows are! Then again, look at a list of countries that still use NTSC... or countries that still have the death penalty... or countries that still use the Imperial system (I looked it up, there's three: America, Liberia and Myanmar). The U.S. must be pretty used to hanging out with war-torn third world hellholes!*

    *Sorry Liberia.
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2012-11-28 at 01:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Let me guess, high ownership of rifles by farmers.
    Not really. New Hampshire as I understand it has probably roughly enough for the rest of New England to make up any gaps.
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Silhouette of Seraphim View Post
    Not really. New Hampshire as I understand it has probably roughly enough for the rest of New England to make up any gaps.
    Yeah most states in New England have thousands of licensed gun owners that have handguns, and the crime rate is lower than areas where guns are banned. New England is pretty libertarian.
    I dont think the people here should have their guns limited when they have more than the rest of the country and the least amount of crime. Its not our fault people in the rest of the country arent as responsible with their arms.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenx View Post
    Yeah most states in New England have thousands of licensed gun owners that have handguns, and the crime rate is lower than areas where guns are banned. New England is pretty libertarian.
    I dont think the people here should have their guns limited when they have more than the rest of the country and the least amount of crime. Its not our fault people in the rest of the country arent as responsible with their arms.
    It's a weird balance. New Hampshire is great for gun ownership, Massachusetts is god awful. (That applies to owning most anything, not just firearms.)
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Silhouette of Seraphim View Post
    It's a weird balance. New Hampshire is great for gun ownership, Massachusetts is god awful. (That applies to owning most anything, not just firearms.)
    Yeah MA is pretty liberal

  13. #173
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    Hello, I'm an Australian non-gun-owner.

    Did you know that per-capita, we have a handgun murder rate less than a quarter of the United States' largely due to our strict regulation and control of firearms?

    (source: http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/...d-States/Crime)

    Have a nice day
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Hello, I'm an Australian non-gun-owner.

    Did you know that per-capita, we have a handgun murder rate less than a quarter of the United States' largely due to our strict regulation and control of firearms?

    (source: http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/...d-States/Crime)

    Have a nice day
    It probably has nothing to do with the population of the US being over 10x that of Australia.

    Out of curiosity of course, what is the comparison of non-gun related violent crimes, such as stabbings?
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  15. #175
    I'm sorry, but if you don't have a home security system that would dissuade most burglars and keep your weapons in a safe, you shouldn't be allowed to own them.

    And if you 'lose' or have guns 'stolen' more than twice then you should be banned from owning firearms.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    The past few years have been marred with a lot of really shocking news reports regarding gun related deaths in the United States. Because of those stories, I do wholeheartedly believe that gun owners in America have gotten a pretty bad rap across the board. From what I've gleamed via forums, facebook, youtube, and anywhere else people can freely comment, the majority of disgust and negative stereotypes seem to come from Canada, the UK, and or other parts of Europe.

    As a gun owner I've gotten really depressed by this. While I understand that some peoples opinions will never change, I do feel that there is a responsibility to be had of gun owners to actively reach out, discuss, educate, and listen to non gun owners.

    There are a great deal of gun owners in this country who recognize that it is THEIR responsibility to protect their home, family, and self. It is not the responsibility of the police, and as the popular saying goes "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

    In the United States, the belief is that Firearms are an equalizer and a right held in the ability for protection. It's really difficult even when you want to be realistic, to think of balanced ways to "fix" the system because it isn't a light switch and it isn't easy.

    Now, I could waste more time but I'd like to do this. I'm fairly level headed and I do choose things out of principle rather than personal belief, so if you're someone who has an opinion you'd like to express to me or a question, I invite you to do so. I would, for once, like to see someone be proactive in this subject, even if it flops.

    Thanks.
    why cant we just kill people with knives and crossbows like the good ole days O-O
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    why cant we just kill people with knives and crossbows like the good ole days O-O
    You can still duel in the presence of a police officer in certain states, but sadly you can't duel to the death anymore.

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...Trounce-Racist

    You may wonder why the officers didn't intervene and put a stop to the sidewalk brawl. It seems Washington has legal precedence for "mutual combat", making single combat a perfectly legal means of settling a dispute, at least to some degree. While Phoenix Jones hasn't always stuck to the letter of the law , in this case, it seems he was well within his rights, as the officers seemed to be perfectly content watching them walk away, while keeping the "suspect" and his group in order. In any case, Jones insists that they had no justification to interfere, since both parties had agreed to the bout.

    While it may seem glamorous, or at least humorous, I would encourage you to avoid invoking "mutual combat" yourself, barring extensive legal training, in addition to any actual martial arts experience.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    Most opinions against and for guns come from the most "rosy" of circumstances. However, it is the worst case scenarios in which we honestly have to look at things. "You" would nor more hand the keys of a Ferrari to a 16 year old than you should leave your weapons out in the open. I'll ask you this, if it wasn't illegal to not wear your seat belt would you never wear it?

    I find it ironic, to a sad degree, that generally people will say they would always wear their seatbelt despite the law because of the idea that "an accident can happen at anytime" and those are often beyond one persons control. Why is the idea of self protection like a gun so different? You can't ask "bad guys" to stop being bad guys. And you can only hope that the guy who broke in to your house and tied you and your family up leave you be... that isn't always the case...
    This is the type of argument I typically take issue with. Comparing seat belts and guns? Really?

    The idea that you must arm yourself to the teeth in order to protect your family at all times because the police won't do it just strikes me as paranoid. The fact is, most people are highly unlikely to experience the random acts of violence that fuel this type of argument. The 24 hour news cycle has a lot of blame in this. You linked a very tragic story, I'll give you that, but despite what the media might lead you to believe, things like that are flukes. Your necessity for self defense does depend a lot on where you live and work, but advocates for guns for defense don't tend to take that into account. If you're not a young, minority, male living in an area of high drug and gang violence, then the odds of being involved in a homicide are negligible.

    You might say that "negligible" is still "possible", but the distinction is important. I honestly don't care if you personally feel the need to be prepared "just in case", but trying to convince other people that they should as well is, quite frankly, irresponsible.

  19. #179
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    I'm from Texas and against civilians owning guns. I have a nice katana if anyone tries to break into my house.


  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Hello, I'm an Australian non-gun-owner.

    Did you know that per-capita, we have a handgun murder rate less than a quarter of the United States' largely due to our strict regulation and control of firearms?

    (source: http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/...d-States/Crime)

    Have a nice day
    Quote Originally Posted by Silhouette of Seraphim View Post

    It probably has nothing to do with the population of the US being over 10x that of Australia.

    Out of curiosity of course, what is the comparison of non-gun related violent crimes, such as stabbings?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita

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