Seriously considering leaving my raiding guild...

[Jackielope]

You didnt get the point of my post. He has a much better option with the sha touched sword and so do i. So why need loot another teammate would not throw away 1hour later?

The point I was making is that it was better for the raid as a whole to give the DPS the weapon instead of the tank. And both, as I have hopefully shown, might consider the Sha-touched weapon to be BiS. Kilrak is a massive amount of parry thanks to the gem, and Theck has shown avoidance isn't that bad compared to haste and mastery once hit and expertise are capped.

[Rayaleith]

You are wrong of course. You knew the loot system from start and still stayed. You now want the guild to make an exception just for you and bypass their loot system. Well, you do not sound THAT special (maybe you are and I misjudge you) but people who demand to be treated as special are not going along to any guild tbh. So, you should either grow up and learn to function in a team as an equal or simply leave the guild and go to another that will give you loot just because it is you.

[Deleted]

Dont forget the close to 300stam upgrade, when youre talking about the stats.

[Gandrake]

Sounds like a crap guild in the first place.

I'd honestly suggest talking to officers first, to make sure you are in the right type of guild.

If you ask me, a guild that gears players instead of the raid/team is not a guild worth being in.

[Jackielope]

Dont forget the close to 300stam upgrade, when youre talking about the stats.

I'm not. The thing about stamina is you can "have enough," and from what I gathered from the OP it seems like the tank is there for the content they're doing based on the comment of healers not having a problem keeping him up, once he actually learns the encounter of course.

And of course the "have enough" line of thinking can be applied to other stats like mastery, etc. And in my experience that's quite common for both healers and tanks. The way I've typically thought as a healer or tank is that if my stats are good and my tank's/healers' stats are good then we might want to think about putting more resources into killing the encounter faster which usually falls on the DPS. Though I admit having tried my hand at the number game while tanking or even healing. Needless to say it worked better with tanking but I had a blast as a Holy pally when 4.0 changes hit but before the Cataclysm actually happened. Exorcism, Holy Shock, and Judgment spam regularly got me 5-6k in LFD and 8-9k in raids. 11k against undead and demons thanks to Exorcism automatically critting, but that's rather off topic now...

[Redcinder]

No reason to get mad about it, in the end it's all just pixels.

But they should of been his pixels, ofcourse he can get mad about it.

[Jackielope]

resume: no, don't leave your guild. while it hurts not getting loot or playing with idiot people, you should cherish the raid-environment with a lot of people you like and get along with, cause that's harder to find than any piece of loot nowadays.

I dunno, it's possible that the one guy screwing things up causes enough tension that leaving the guild, or at least the raid team, seems pretty reasonable for one's sanity.

You are wrong of course. You knew the loot system from start and still stayed. You now want the guild to make an exception just for you and bypass their loot system. Well, you do not sound THAT special (maybe you are and I misjudge you) but people who demand to be treated as special are not going along to any guild tbh. So, you should either grow up and learn to function in a team as an equal or simply leave the guild and go to another that will give you loot just because it is you.

If it was only this situation I'd agree, but there have been some implications about changing the loot system for the entire guild since rolls tend to suck as a whole. True, the start of that seems to come from feeling entitled to a particular piece of gear, but the results might be worth the problems from that. Key word of course is might.

[Deleted]

I'm not. The thing about stamina is you can "have enough," and from what I gathered from the OP it seems like the tank is there for the content they're doing based on the comment of healers not having a problem keeping him up, once he actually learns the encounter of course.

I have made it a personal rule of mine to never trust an angry dps that just lost loot to a tank, on how easy the healers have it, especially holding up tanks, when describing why this tank doesn't need the item...

He sounds more like the person who would be watching the dps meter at all time, thinking "I could be nr. 1 if all the other players didn't take all my epics" and not really paying any attention to the health/mana of the other players.

[Deleted]

No offense man, but roll system is the most retarded system ever. If your guild is a little serious about progressing they should refrain from using this system. Instead, either use point based on loot council, from how good an upgrade is something to a member. I personally don't like DKP, because it can be abused or people hogging DKP, taking turns etc. Loot cuncil is usually the best loot system what I have experienced from these years raiding, ofcourse, even officer make someitmes unfair decisions, but overall you put effort into the guild, peforming well in raids you usually get rewarded.

Secondly, it all depends on you. If you feel you can do more, and the group is holding you back. Another thing you want to ask yourself, will they improve overtime or do you see people continuesly making the same mistake and not giving a care in the world? Another thing you want to ask yourself what mindset do you having raiding wise. Are you heroic progression focused? Do you want to clear the content? Do you want to clear stuff at a decent level and not overgear an encounters, but rather playing mechanics right? If the answer is yes to those question you might want to find a better guild. People come and go all the time in guilds, if you are a good player and your guild is bad you are simply boosting them. Now some arguements can be made you have bene playing with them for years etc. But in the end it all comes down what you want. If you want more and more progress then you should look for a guild that fits your standards.

Alot casual or not-so-well progressed 10-man guilds lose good players. While people might not like you leaving your guild, I'm pretty sure if you tell your GM/RL I'm sure they will understand. A guild can't change their standards from low to medium or high gameplay, because one person is disatisfied. I've seen it before, while its good to have good players in the guild, I personally would feel bad holding down a player in my guild that could do so much better and making him stay.

[Jackielope]

I have made it a personal rule of mine to never trust an angry dps that just lost loot to a tank, on how easy the healers have it, especially holding up tanks, when describing why this tank doesn't need the item...

He sounds more like the person who would be watching the dps meter at all time, thinking "I could be nr. 1 if all the other players didn't take all my epics" and not really paying any attention to the health/mana of the other players.

In my posts I've tried to make no assumptions about what may have actually happened, though I agree it's probably not exactly as described. I just take it at face value, respond as such, and hopefully move on since I find more often than not that accusing the OP of not being accurate will lead to more time wasted and less learned overall.

[Deleted]

Its a long way to get enough stamina during progress. Fact is hes going to throw this weapon away when sha touched weapon drops. And tbh i think hes extremly loot whoring when it comes to drops, because he refuses to get that extra 320str from a second profession which is an upgrade.

[chunkycarl]

Sorry but it sounds like "i lost a roll, so im leaving". If the guy is that bad, how have you cleared the bosses you have done so far?

speak to your GM's or officers. Explain the situation, or better yet, discuss loot council

[Deleted]

After reading about the weapon I guess it depends what guild you're in. In every normal case, if your guild is progressing on heroics. Weapons should be DPS > tank, because you wanna push that DPS as much as possible on heroics to ease up the encounter.

[Xykotic]

No reason to get mad about it, in the end it's all just pixels.

Bullshit, why should i care about anything in the game? Why should i even bother dpsing a boss at that point? Its just pixels.

This game is mainly about obtaining gear after the initial downing of a boss and he has every reason to be angry when someone who doesn't deserve it takes his "paycheck".

Its like when (if you're not currently) in school and you're doing a group project and someone who didn't read for a second, didn't write a single line or contributed in any way gets a better grade based on your work.

[Caribald]

from what you told it sounds like a terrible guild with organisation at all, 2/10 would leave

[Deleted]

Bullshit, why should i care about anything in the game? Why should i even bother dpsing a boss at that point? Its just pixels.

This game is mainly about obtaining gear after the initial downing of a boss and he has every reason to be angry when someone who doesn't deserve it takes his "paycheck".

Its like when (if you're not currently) in school and you're doing a group project and someone who didn't read for a second, didn't write a single line or contributed in any way gets a better grade based on your work.

I take it you think the tank should just work on equal terms but work for free?

[Cybran]

If you care about raiding you would leave. There is no point in wasting time and energy in a guild that has no clue how to operate correctly.

[Deleted]

If you get frustrated for something that should give you joy, then you shouldn't commit on staying. I feel you man, there are plenty of guilds out there in the world. IRL society is reflected through gameplay. Me me and me should get it. I don't care about anyone else. Sad, sad...

[Jackielope]

Its a long way to get enough stamina during progress. Fact is hes going to throw this weapon away when sha touched weapon drops. And tbh i think hes extremly loot whoring when it comes to drops, because he refuses to get that extra 320str from a second profession which is an upgrade.

We can't know all of the circumstances behind profession choice so I tend to ignore stuff like that. And yes, chances are that weapon will be tossed if the sha weapon drops since most tanks don't think of it as a possible upgrade despite strength's worth as avoidance. It's also possible that the other weapon would be tossed instead since it's possible to have overall better stat allocation with it if I do my math right. For reference, http://www.wowhead.com/item=86130 versus http://www.wowhead.com/item=86219. The weapon damage is better on the sword due to item level and it's possible to reforge the mastery to crit or expertise, plus stick a hit or crit/hit gem in the socket to come out ahead overall.

[rowaasr13]

You knew loot rules in advance? Were they completely followed? Because if you follow MS>OS, you have every right to complain about breaking it - SoSS is not a tanking weapon with its pathetic stamina, but if you use a simple roll then, well, luck just was not on your side and you should've complained about rules before raid, not after.