Avatar in 5.1

[Deleted]

So, anyone tested Avatar in 5.1? How is it doing compared to BB and SB? is it worth taking now?

[Bethrezen]

Avatar's still best.

[vpywow]

Avatar's still best.

Till a mage casts Frost Nova

[Deleted]

Maybe i should have been clearer with this, but what i mean is for PVE

[cFortyfive]

Don't really see how four seconds of extra uptime in exchange for the lost rage generation should really change anything.

[lordzed83]

Ye Rage gen was so good in pve for execute phase

[Beerun]

the extra rage gen was awesome. sad to see it go

[xebtria]

the extra rage gen was awesome. sad to see it go

thats actually why they removed it. it was so awesome, it didn't leave a choice what to take, because everything else was highly inferior.

[Freedom]

If you go hit>mastery over 7.5% like landsoul, I imagine Avatar is still good for burst phases. I hit 139k overall for the fight according to recount last night on Elegon 10N - WoL client ate the logs though. : (

[Deleted]

Avatar: 20% damage for 24 seconds every 3 minutes
Bloodbath: 30% damage for 36 seconds every 3 minutes (1 minute CD)

What would you benefit more from during the fight - 1 minute higher damage CDs? or a 3 minute longer nuke in 1 sitting?

[Gatsu]

Avatar: 20% damage for 24 seconds every 3 minutes
Bloodbath: 30% damage for 36 seconds every 3 minutes (1 minute CD)

What would you benefit more from during the fight - 1 minute higher damage CDs? or a 3 minute longer nuke in 1 sitting?

That's not exaclty like that, Bloodbath only benefits from special attacks, but it's superior in almost every occasion now.

[Roseby]

Well if there are phases where Berzerker Rage would outgain the rage expenditure from Execute, Avatar might be still be a good idea. Case in point - Elegon, Blade Lord Ta'yak.

Avatar is less viable outside of that though. Sad to see it go.

[Darkfriend]

Avatar's still best.

Maybe in areans. Not for PVE.

[Deleted]

Well if there are phases where Berzerker Rage would outgain the rage expenditure from Execute, Avatar might be still be a good idea. Case in point - Elegon, Blade Lord Ta'yak.

Avatar is less viable outside of that though. Sad to see it go.

Sorry, but what do you mean with this?

[Kankipappa]

Sorry, but what do you mean with this?

He probably means those burnsphases where you can switch to berserker stance (not rage, dunno why he talks about berserker rage), it might be better to spam executes with avatar for 24s than bloodpath for half of that time.

[Deleted]

Bloodbath might be at least equally good i think.

[Deleted]

i tried to burst a dummy and they both do about the same dmg.

BUT bloodbath has a lower cd....so...yea

[Deleted]

He probably means those burnsphases where you can switch to berserker stance (not rage, dunno why he talks about berserker rage), it might be better to spam executes with avatar for 24s than bloodpath for half of that time.

Ah, i see, yeah that might be something

[Darkfriend]

Ok, avatar is ALWAYS worse than BB in PVE, if everything is equal. However, there were/are/could have been a few instances where Avatar was better, both pre and post patch.

1.) Pre patch, avatar was sometimes better during elegon. Due to the nature of increasing amounts of damage on the boss being taken, the length of the fight (3 avatars) and the rage gen possible through berserker stance and avatar, the DPS increase was greater than that of BB I THINK- at least from my testing. I CBF to do the math, but the reasoning is sound.

2.) Post patch, if there is an add(s) that is up for either less than 18 seconds (the time for BB is up+ to finish ticking) and you need to burst the add(s) for some reason, avatar would be better, it'd more front loading of damage. However, this is still less damage overall, its just institutionally preferable (Think of something like heroic spine where you want a larger burst every few minutes, instead of greater damage overall)

3.) Fights with crucial burn phases, either where the boss takes more damage, or needs to die quickly, or something. One avatar is greater than one BB, in this case.

The reason BB is better in general is because of both how BB works and how you should be using it. BB is a flat 30% increase in yellow (special) attack damage, spread out in the form of a dot (Think like a mages combustion). Doing the math, 30% for 12 seconds every minute is around 5% DPS increase. However, since you are lining up CDs, CS, and DR with BB, and AOE attacks also proc it, it realistically ends up being more like 6-8%, depending on fight.

Just remember, BB is ALWAYS better than Avatar, unless there is so reason the fight requires/prefers larger burst less often.

[Deleted]

That's not exaclty like that, Bloodbath only benefits from special attacks, but it's superior in almost every occasion now.

That's true, special attacks are like 75% of your total damage, so it would still be (perhaps slightly) superior to Avatar.

I'd say it's a matter of preference. I just love being able to line up BB with Dragon's Roar and my Engi Glove enchant (and with Banner & Recklessness every 2.5/3 min) for a huge Bleed, but if you are more comfortable with Avatar even after the nerf, stick with that.