Warlock class action needed against Blizz.

[KrazyK923]

you may dislike the changes, but threatening a class action against blizzard for a class only chain quest (which is in itself a cool and special thing, you should be happy about it even existing) postponed a couple months or something is flat out ridiculous.
and again, you can think that the class is now oversimplified etc. but the fact that blizzard spent a lot of development time on your class is undeniable.

I wasn't talking about just this thread. This idea is stupid as shit. But the legitimate complaints about Warlocks in this thread are being dismissed by people like yourself by either: tying their entire argument to the OP's position (A fallacy), dismissing them because of what I mentioned in my last post (Just plain stupid), or saying "lawl they spent a lot of time on your class." (Acting as if just because they spent more time on my class means I shouldn't examine any issues with it). Keep trying to pretend like I was talking about the OP's position whatsoever. I'll keep calling you on it.

Want me to repeat myself? Alright:

Yes, they did. They spent a lot of time on my class and reworked it. And they ruined it and it plays like shit, is ridiculously simple, and over powered.

I can say it a third time if you want.

The Warlock quest is a special instance. I agree with both sides here. Blizzard did officially never say this was coming in 5.1, but they also directly were talking about it in very specific ways, and tying it to the 5.1 release. They should have come out and said there was no guarantees it was coming out in 5.1, or never even addressed it until after the patch was out. Don't sit there and spoon feed me this excuse that because they're giving us a class quest that I should somehow just "be happy" and ignore my complaints with my class.

[Deleted]

I wasn't talking about just this thread. This idea is stupid as shit. But the legitimate complaints about Warlocks in this thread are being dismissed by people like yourself by either: tying their entire argument to the OP's position (A fallacy), dismissing them because of what I mentioned in my last post (Just plain stupid), or saying "lawl they spent a lot of time on your class." (Acting as if just because they spent more time on my class means I shouldn't examine any issues with it). Keep trying to pretend like I was talking about the OP's position whatsoever. I'll keep calling you on it.

Want me to repeat myself? Alright:

Yes, they did. They spent a lot of time on my class and reworked it. And they ruined it and it plays like shit, is ridiculously simple, and over powered.

I can say it a third time if you want.

you're overreacting, i'm not dismissing anything else but the OP's idea since this thread is about a class action, isn't it?
i'm fine with people not being content with their playstyle.
i mentioned the development time spent on your class because the OP apparently thinks that " i have been tricked, so, i want my money back, and i think even a refound for the time i spend to level a class that have been abandoned, for whatever internal reason."

[KrazyK923]

you're overreacting, i'm not dismissing anything else but the OP's idea since this thread is about a class action, isn't it?
i'm fine with people not being content with their playstyle.
i mentioned the development time spent on your class because the OP apparently thinks that " i have been tricked, so, i want my money back, and i think even a refound for the time i spend to level a class that have been abandoned, for whatever internal reason."

I'm overreacting, how? Any conscious observer can see Warlocks how are extremely simple to play and are broken. Affliction? Its always been busted as shit. Demo? Stack mastery, Demo form, blow cooldowns and Chaos Wave to victory. Destro? Chaos Bolt to victory.

And no, you're wrong because you're responding to people other than the OP tying them to the OP's position like they are saying they support it.

Also, please fix your grammar. Trying to argue with you is hurting my brain.

[alucardtnuoc]

I hear that people play FOTM classes.... so if your class isn't the "best" of course it wont be used in top arena/RBGs....

[KrazyK923]

I hear that people play FOTM classes.... so if your class isn't the "best" of course it wont be used in top arena/RBGs....

What exactly is your point here? People aren't complaining Warlocks aren't strong enough.

[Deleted]

i mentioned the development time spent on your class

GC: Remove half of the Destro and Demo shit. Affliction hasn't been changed since it's my marvelous 3.1 contribution, so don't touch my chimp babe.
Anon: Fine, let me 10 sec... Hum, specific or random ?
GC: Random
Anon: Done.

[DeadmanWalking]

Why isn't there an option for, "This is the worst and most rediculous waste of my time I have ever seen on a forum out of all the worst ideals and wastes of my time that I have ever seen in over a decade and this is the internet so thats saying a lot!" in the poll?

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 08:17 PM ----------

If you ask me this 'class action lawsuit' would be thrown out of court quicker than quick, OP would pay all the court fees and get sued for frivalous lawsuits and should be bitched out by the judge for wasting the courts time when it could be dealing with REAL social issues like murderers, rapists, thieves and politicians. Did I say politicians twice?

[Last Starfighter]

I'm overreacting, how? Any conscious observer can see Warlocks how are extremely simple to play and are broken. Affliction? Its always been busted as shit. Demo? Stack mastery, Demo form, blow cooldowns and Chaos Wave to victory. Destro? Chaos Bolt to victory.

And no, you're wrong because you're responding to people other than the OP tying them to the OP's position like they are saying they support it.

Also, please fix your grammar. Trying to argue with you is hurting my brain.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. You don't blindly stack mastery as demo. Chaos wave to victory? What? Do you know what choas wave is? And Chaos bolt your way to victory from an ability that requires a resource and an eternity of a cast time? Locks aren't any easier than rogues, hunters, and definitely mages.

And explain how affliction is "busted as shit"?

---------- Post added 2012-12-01 at 05:20 AM ----------

Why isn't there an option for, "This is the worst and most rediculous waste of my time I have ever seen on a forum out of all the worst ideals and wastes of my time that I have ever seen in over a decade and this is the internet so thats saying a lot!" in the poll?

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 08:17 PM ----------

If you ask me this 'class action lawsuit' would be thrown out of court quicker than quick, OP would pay all the court fees and get sued for frivalous lawsuits and should be bitched out by the judge for wasting the courts time when it could be dealing with REAL social issues like murderers, rapists, thieves and politicians. Did I say politicians twice?

I really wish the US would implement a law for stuff like this. Like the "Have you been bitten by a cat? Call Beanfart and Beanfart, our law offices are ready to take on your case." bullshit commercials we see. Bring shit like this to court, not only do you have to pay court fees, but maybe even a month or two in jail.

[Hand Banana]

Ive seen some stupid stuff in my life. This has to rank up there pretty far.

Without going into any balance or even going into the lawsuit issue let me break down the warlock class which is essentially 3 classes in 1 given how different the specs are:
Affliction: Dot based, resource = soul shards.
Demo: Pet based, transformation based, resource = Demonic fury.
Destro: Nuke spell based, resource = Burning Embers.

3 different resources and playstyles for 3 different dps specs.

Warriors: Arms: Fury = uses rage, enrages, and basic attacks. Arms = uses rage, enrages, and basic attacks. Only real difference is TfB vs. Enrages
Rogues: All 3 Sub/Combat/Mut = Energy, Combo points, SnD, Rupture, 2nd dmg finisher. Only difference is the spam button and the 2nd finisher and the dps cd.

So please, dont ever complain warlocks werent given anything.

[KrazyK923]

I don't think you know what you're talking about. You don't blindly stack mastery as demo. Chaos wave to victory? What? Do you know what choas wave is? And Chaos bolt your way to victory from an ability that requires a resource and an eternity of a cast time? Locks aren't any easier than rogues, hunters, and definitely mages.

And explain how affliction is "busted as shit"?

Yes, I know what the abilities are. Thanks for the condescension. See my above post about people automatically being accused of not knowing how to play because they dislike the changes. You're a good example of it.

Part of the problem is that Chaos Bolt takes so long to build up and is easily interruptable. The problem is the entire spec is built around Chaos Bolt. And whenever they have to even slightly nerf Chaos Bolt, it fucks over the entire spec. If Chaos Bolt isn't OP, then the spec is awful. That's the problem with balancing entire specs around 1 ability.

If I have to explain how affliction is amazing, then you're doing it wrong.

So please, dont ever complain warlocks werent given anything.

Another example of my post above about useless contribution. Try reading and understand why people are upset with Warlocks.

[Last Starfighter]

Yes, I know what the abilities are. Thanks for the condescension. See my above post about people automatically being accused of not knowing how to play because they dislike the changes. You're a good example of it.

Part of the problem is that Chaos Bolt takes so long to build up and is easily interruptable. The problem is the entire spec is built around Chaos Bolt. And whenever they have to even slightly nerf Chaos Bolt, it fucks over the entire spec. If Chaos Bolt isn't OP, then the spec is awful. That's the problem with balancing entire specs around 1 ability.

If I have to explain how affliction is amazing, then you're doing it wrong.



Another example of my post above about useless contribution. Try reading and understand why people are upset with Warlocks.

So, first it's "Chaos Bolt to victory", now it's chaos bolt takes long to build, and is easily interruptible? So how is this chaos bolting your way to victory? That was my point.

So what is wrong with affliction?

I wasn't saying affliction isn't amazing. But it isn't overpowered. Affliction isn't like previous versions. If you aren't wise with shard management, your dps will be jack shit. So it isn't wrath arcane.

[Giants41]

I think it's time to reevaluate your life. You want to sue blizz over this? what?

[KrazyK923]

So, first it's "Chaos Bolt to victory", now it's chaos bolt takes long to build, and is easily interruptible? So how is this chaos bolting your way to victory? That was my point.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know, right? What you keep quoting me saying just means that the entire spec is built around 1 ability that is overpowered. I'm not sure why you keep going back to that like you're knocking me for something.

[Zoldor]

I really wish the US would implement a law for stuff like this. Like the "Have you been bitten by a cat? Call Beanfart and Beanfart, our law offices are ready to take on your case." bullshit commercials we see. Bring shit like this to court, not only do you have to pay court fees, but maybe even a month or two in jail.

Bring them to court and send them to jail because they have a commercial that says join a class action law suit. Your general legal ignorance should keep me from even responding, but you obviously don't get how class action law suits work. When you start a class action you are supposed to advertise it by any means to make sure to include all people affected by the suit. You can't sue the same company over and over for the same thing, you bring all the suits together and file them as a class action a judge will even recommend this in most cases. By advertising you make sure to include all members of the requisite class. Sending someone to American prison for advertising a class action suit is just about the most ignorant thing to say. You have no idea what prison is like or how the US legal system works, or the general bound of any sort of legal action in the US. Also you get disbarred if you bring a serious enough frivolous lawsuit and your client can then sue you for time lost and malpractice.

OT; Warlocks are good, mine seems to be doing fine. The quest we are getting is simply a class quest, something the game used to be filled with, and really isn't something too insane to be uber jealous about. Granted this maybe a test to see if folks like em enough to bring more of them into the game again. This dudes idea though is rather awful from just about every possible angle. Then again I play Affliction and I don't have any problems...destro may dislike themselves because they can't be the hipsters of my spec is hard to play to get mediocore dps. Now its too easy and I get good dps so I can't brood. Warlocks are awesome so far this expansion in PvE and PvP...wasn't one of the teams in the recent Blizzard pvp tourny Lock/Shaman/Mage or something like that?!

[volrat]

After some days, here some thoughts about this crazy thread, and what i learned:

1) the customers of this service generally do not expect to be respected, and generally are amused if someone pretends to; some, to be honest a lot, have said that this kind of thread or behaviour is what keeps away Blizz from talking to customers, and do not want to talk about things if they are not final; the point is, it is exactly what i was meaning to achieve, what is the purpose, the utility, or the sense of presenting content you are not going to put into the game, if not the misleading intention to keep your attention on the product with improvements you have no intention to implement in reasonable time? I can't understand the why many ppl think they will be loosing something precious, it is not they cannot talk about future project, the point is they shouldn't be announcing the release of content of content, and then simply deny it, without giving enough resoning and a timeline for the delay.
Ideas and projects for the future can be discussed, and imho, will be incentivated, given the fact that when they would announce a final improvement i would be almost certain.

2) People simply can't see beyond a very restricted field. The fact a class have recieved a lot of work ( which was really needed after YEARS of shallow design ) cannot justify the denial of content announced, nor the interruction of a work of re-design which ( and here only some seems to understand what i mean ) is not yet finished.
But again, it is not a matter of a single class, given the proportion of this game and the amount of money it generates, each class deserve development and continous improvement, but a lot of ppl just whyne about what other classes improvements, while acting like a more omogenic whole will produce a better service for everyone.
Again, Blizz is not giving you a gift when makes your class perform better or introduce new mechanics, they are just doing the job you pay them for.

3) A legal action to ask a refund for a service you think you have not recieved, or you think to have been misleaded to subscribe, or else, is not something that take away time for more serious "crimes", this goes into its own legal ways, it has dedicated lawyers, judges and courts; the fact you subscribe an EUALA doesn't mean that the company can take whatever behaviour it pleases, i will give you the example of the MICROSOFT/APPLE sentnce by the european antitrust, i won't go into detail, but the company had to rethink a lot its approach on how they present its software to final customers, even if they had been forced to accept specific conditions that the court didn't find legal from many points of view.
The fact that this is a game should't mislead your judgement, we pay more than €/£/$130, for it and the way Blizz actually interact with its customer is nearly surely not legal,from a customer pov or from the prospective of other rival companies; again, it is a general level of unawarness that make this possible, but with the growth of this market i can forsee a change to this.

This are my final words, thanks to everybody, even if the point of the discussion have been greatly misunderstanded.

[Hand Banana]

Another example of my post above about useless contribution. Try reading and understand why people are upset with Warlocks.

What? Your crying because you have potentially the most diverse pure dps class in the game? Your crying because you do like 1% less dps than other classes (maybe you do more, fuck if I know)? Your crying because warlocks have less representation in arenas than warriors but more than rogues and monks combined? Your crying because you have a class specific quest line that no one else has?

Help me understand here because I really dont see what is so bad. Every class can QQ about something but a lawsuit? LOL

[Deleted]

After some days, here some thoughts about this crazy thread, and what i learned:

1) ....

2) People ....
3) A legal action....

This are my final words, thanks to everybody, even if the point of the discussion have been greatly misunderstanded.

1) Respect. Respect. What is respect. It's an arbitrary word that has little meaning other than rethoric, in this context. Other points: We were given a reason, and we were given a timeline (at least for the questline) where it will be implimented.

2) A game is a work in progress.. Literally nothing of what Blizzard says HAS to be implimented. This isn't misrepresentation of goods, this is rather differences of creative management and time constraints. The fact that you argue over this proves to me that you honestly have not examined the law in regards to Intellectual Property, and are examining WoW under a miscatagorization of the type of good it is. Example; If Blizz says you are buying an apple, and you buy a box, and inside that box is an orange, that's wrong because it's a physical misrepresentation of the good. Now, if Blizz writes a book about "True Love", and in the end the characters fall apart and hate each other, that's not misrepresentation, even though you don't get the "true love" described. Now, WoW is a little more obvious, but still, time and management force things out. You are catagorising this misrepresentation on the basis of two items for warlocks that have been announced to have been pulled due to internal problems (which, ironically, we may be a factor of, but I won't go into it).

3) I'll agree that legal seperation of claims is one of the most basic forms of legal systems. This is honestly the first point you raise that I agree with. I dont quite understand how Antitrust law (aka, anti-competition, Microsoft "forcing" users to use IE as default despite having previously had an option to change at initial setup that they removed) coresponds to the pulling of an item pre-release in software. It certainly doesn't affect any profits other than MS's, and doesn't affect user's abilities to chose their brand.

I'm assuming £130 is the WoW annual pass cost. Now, three things: One: You pay for the game as currently is, and for the license to play on the servers. You don't pay for future content. Two: No one is forcing you to pay for all year at a time, and there's even a free test option. As far as Blizz is concerned, you try the game, say "this is for me", and pay for the privilage to play the live servers. Three: "Rival companies".... I hate to be "that girl", but what rivals? Bioware, who are monitising as much as they can out of TOR, and has an unprecedented loss in subscribers for such an ambitious game? Jagex, who struggle with real world trading and glitches. Turbine, who are suffering mass player drops (from what I can tell) from the game? The Dwarves? They hide in their mountain, caring only for their own greed. And I'm allowed to joke because of 4)....

4) No. No. NO. Do you seriously expect to be taken seriously in a court if you abandon a thread like this after a few days without clearly explaining your answers? If you had come to me with a brief, and I found this thread during my research, I'd probably say no. To quote wise man Walt White: You need to apply yourself. You never answer anyone's complaints clearly, and I know nothing I said above will have any slightest impact, so to anyone who actually read it, here's a cookie. Your words haven't been misunderstood.

My only suggestion, honestly, is to sit back, breathe, cancel your sub if you want, and play TOR, play LotRO, play GW2, play RIFT, play DCU, play Runescape and tell me, honestly, that BW, Jagex, Turbine don't mislead their customers as much as Blizzard. "Sift the world through the finest seive and find me one molecule of justice, one atom of mercy", comes to mind. It's all relative, and if you dislike the game, that's fine, and sometimes when we're desperate we want to get to a higher source of authority to vent our frustrations, but honestly, don't do it, you'll just make a show of yourself.

[Landin55]

Can't believe every single response is someone trying to flex. All the top pvpers know that we are absolute shit now. The only semi decent spec is Demo and it got absolutely gutted in 5.1 to say things like "warlocks are awesome lolz top pvp and pve" is just absurd to me. Our pve dps is good but it's also ridiculously boring now. I just can't even believe it. Also with how terrible and useless Affliction has become in pvp I have seriously lost my one passion in this game. It's disgusting.

Flex=sane now? Good to know.

[Prostatus911]

The upgrades/ items/ abilities/ spells which you have mentioned were datamined from PTR files and were never announced in a blue post that these changes would be happening in the 5.0.4 or even 5.1 patches. Unless Blizzard has directly violated the law a lawsuit would be a tremendous waste of time and money.

Remember... Blizzard's Lawyers > yours.

[Deleted]

Remember... Blizzard's Lawyers > yours.

This sentence, plus your avatar, now makes me want to have lawyers fighting one another via toy lightsaber....