Shadowpriest 5.1 -Why cant blizzard see all our current faults and flaws?

[Drye]

there's also a gap between mediocre/bad locks and good/phenomenal shadowpriests. look at how few of the top 25 shadow logs on a per fight basis on world of logs are top dps in their raid.

Copied form h2p:

I will say this over and over again, our ability to switch talents depending on fights is what really helps us the most right now and keeps us strong. And if you do not know how to use them and maximize the dps they give, you will fall far behind. Everyone keeps saying that the skill cap has be dramatically lowered and you can't tell the difference between a good and bad shadow priest and I strongly disagree. I feel that the gap has grown even further. It might not be in actual play, although I think there is definitely a difference between good and bad players, but it is in knowledge and experience where this skill cap comes from

[snaxattax]

that's my point. you can get a top 50 ranked parse as shadow and still get beat handily (in damage done) by warlocks who forget to pot and don't use their doomguard simply because shadow is so mechanically limited in many raid encounters. even changing talents or whatever, it doesn't matter. too many of our talents are just awful, and we lack a strong, stackable cooldown which every other dps spec (hybrid or pure) has.

you suggest that somehow there's a magic combination of talents which will let us outdps (or even come consistently close to) a warlock? there are only 2 choices on 2 talent tiers which really change how our spec plays. our level 90 talents are all, honestly, fun to use and relatively useful to fill the damage+healing role that spriests have traditionally filled, but from a damage standpoint none of them will ever stack up to a 600% radius SBSoC. the only time we really do strong, top of the heap dps is when we can keep twist of fate up for like 50-odd% of a fight, and/or cast like twice as many shadow word deaths as in your standard single target fight.

i do like how our talents work, except for power infusion and insanity which are just terrible jokes for PVE shadow. power infusion needs to be changed/buffed substantially for shadow and we could potentially be much more potent in single target fights. insanity could be made much, much better, as well. instead of a stupid and awkward spriest conflagrate (they even got rid of this mechanic for conflagrate because of its being an unnecessarily awkward PITA), they could turn it into some sort of single target debuff (whose strength could be reduced to whatever is appropriate in PVP) which we could then stack with an improved PI (say, that increases damage instead of haste and allows the use of SWD on non player characters for its duration) for single target burst in pve.

this would give us access to the scenario in which spriests are strong (being able to snipe adds with SWD and then use those orbs for extra DP), but not have it require adds. it would certainly be a combination you wouldn't want to use on an add fight (where according to blizzard shadow is strong), because you effectively have access to extra orbs and a damage buff as the adds die throughout the encounter.

[Drye]

you suggest that somehow there's a magic combination of talents which will let us outdps (or even come consistently close to) a warlock? .

And other classes do? Everyone keeps crying that we cant keep up with mages or aff locks, here is something new, NO ELSE CAN EITHER. Honestly, I'm just happy our dps isnt as bad as a boomkin or eleshaman.

[snaxattax]

boomkin are stronger than shadowpriests unless you have to move for the entire fight (garalon) or have protracted periods of aoe (windlord, to a lesser extent feng). on these fights, we're roughly equal. they're much, much stronger in pure single target and council fights.

warriors and rogues can keep up with warlocks as long as it's not a super melee unfriendly fight. ele shaman are better than shadow single target, but even when its a big addfight clusterfuck, the difference between their dps and ours is less than what their stormlash totem does for the entire raid - at least on 25.

[Juicebox]

I guess I'm not the only one who has a Divine Insight procced but MB stays on cooldown?
Don't know if theorycrafters are aware, but if they aren't then surely DI must be worth even less than it currently is.

[Drye]

boomkin are stronger than shadowpriests unless you have to move for the entire fight (garalon) or have protracted periods of aoe (windlord, to a lesser extent feng). on these fights, we're roughly equal. they're much, much stronger in pure single target and council fights.

warriors and rogues can keep up with warlocks as long as it's not a super melee unfriendly fight. ele shaman are better than shadow single target, but even when its a big addfight clusterfuck, the difference between their dps and ours is less than what their stormlash totem does for the entire raid - at least on 25.

So, basically what you are saying is that each fight favors different classes and that mages/aff are the only two dominate ones... hmmmmmmm......... Thank you for agreeing with me.

[soulyouth]

I guess I'm not the only one who has a Divine Insight procced but MB stays on cooldown?
Don't know if theorycrafters are aware, but if they aren't then surely DI must be worth even less than it currently is.

I've had this happen alot

[snaxattax]

it's because you are using glyph of mind spike and FDCL along with DI. the buffs from this glyph and DI interact in a negative way. try unglyphing mindspike or using mindbender instead. you'll notice the problem does not happen.

[Deleted]

You seem to forget that no matter how good our gear will become we will never scale decently to the gear we acquire.
With every other spec there is a way in which they scale based on the stats they acquire.

In T16 Spriests will still be mid to bottom pack because the only resource generator we have is is on a fixed timer.
Blowing hero has a lot more impact on every other class than we have. Only three spells really benefit from it. DP is out of the equation. You either take DI and get to cast it a bit more if you get lucky on procs or you get it to cast it twice. The spell that does a hell of a lot of our damage.

It will take till the last raid tier before they realise this. It's been like that in every expansion so why would it be different now.

Excuse me but I have played sp from wrath onwards and have had no problems doing good dps, i rerolled warlock and miss the utility and fun i had when playing sp, we were supposed to be shit aswell in ds but because the sims didnt take mind spike rotations into account sp's were still doing crazy damage. Just wait and see what the next tier brings, Sp's are one of the best designed funnest classes out there even now, count your blessings. Similarly I always feel sp's scale very well with gear even though you are right about mind blast.

[snaxattax]

So, basically what you are saying is that each fight favors different classes and that mages/aff are the only two dominate ones... hmmmmmmm......... Thank you for agreeing with me.

no, shadow isn't favored on some fights rather than other ranged hybrids - it's less than or equal to balance, and shaman brings much more utility in the form of their healing cooldowns and stormlash. the only thing we have which tilts fights towards shadow is mass dispel. if they want to make a new role (maybe call it dPS, dispels per second) then we would be the undisputed champion.

[soulyouth]

Sp's are one of the best designed funnest classes out there even now.

no, we were, till MOP talents fucked the class, IMO the best play style for shadow was ICC with 4pc t10 with flay being really G, I thought that 4pc t13 was the worst thing they could to to the class, but I was so very wrong

[Ceece]

I'd like to see some numbers from SimCraft. I'm shocked Shadow is at the bottom.

[SirReal]

Just give us something that enables walk-n-cast for us. We are currently the only class that can't cast spells on the move.
Warlocks have the level 90 talent which Blizz just buffed, Shamans have their Spiritwalker's Grace or whatever it's called and Mages can spam scorch.
If I don't have any proccs up or need to refresh my dots, any movement at all is a major dps loss.

dp, swp, instant mb and ms.......say u have to move 30 yds across the room; move 15, mb, move 15, done. just sayin

[Drye]

Similarly I always feel sp's scale very well with gear even though you are right about mind blast.

well... your "feelings" are the exact opposite of actual logs/math.

[snaxattax]

I'd like to see some numbers from SimCraft. I'm shocked Shadow is at the bottom.

look at world of logs parses, instead. it's not hard to see that shadow is pretty consistently 10-20% off of other ranged. especially annoying when you actually check the whole log from a high ranked spriest parse and you see that very often they weren't even top 5 damage dealers in their raid for the encounter. the only real exception to this is on elegon, which as an encounter is pretty much ideal for shadow... but even then many of the top parses are being beat by a moonkin, mage or warlock.

[ultimar235]

I'd like to see some numbers from SimCraft. I'm shocked Shadow is at the bottom.

In 496 Gear

Maximum:
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum-dps

Realistic:
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps

You can link to simcraft if want the heroic t14 ones but it doesn't show much difference.

[Scorp969]

what i think is the biggest problem that they created is mastery for SP changing proc. boost dots for some shitty chance to double proc dot tick that destroyed multi doting on moore then 3-4 targets and aoe and reduced single taret
aoe solution boots MS by 2-5proc and give sps some cd that will spread swp on everything that it hits
single target (i dont think they revert mastery)boost MF by 5-10proc
(my mains are affli/demo lock and shadow/disco priest and i see that huge difference same ilvl)
(dont have any newer logs for lock they forget to record them)
Lock - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...e/?s=108&e=446
Priest - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=907#Agasaya

[Drye]

In 496 Gear

Maximum:
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum-dps

Realistic:
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps

Noxxic/iccy is easily one of the worst websites out there and gives new players terrible and 100% inaccurate information.

[mindp]

Noxxic/iccy is easily one of the worst websites out there and gives new players terrible and 100% inaccurate information.

I beg to differ, it isn't the easiest, it is the best one for the worst.

[Frmercury]

I beg to differ, it isn't the easiest, it is the best one for the worst.

Mpeezy why are you being bad right now. I know you're not bad (in general).

What I do know is that Noxxic and Icy Veins are both TERRIBLE resources for Shadow Priests. I can't speak to their accuracy for other specs / classes, but they are absolutely bad for Shadow.

That's not really even an argument there. They present factually incorrect information on the Shadow Priest specialization.