There's no need to QQ about Chaos Bolts... (pic)

[Nicola]

It's actually Ironbark, barkskin is only for self-cast.

Ugh whatever, people know what I mean.
I only know spells by what they do, not by name, like most players probably.

[aeir]

In full malovent gear you have about 400k hp, a rallying cry gives you an extra 80k hp.
Considering the chance of 2 chaoswaves critting is about 1% ( I only have 11% crit in full malovent with t2 wep), and considering it does max 200k damage when using no defensives at all, a rallying cry will allow you to survive 2 waves. A single heal between the waves, a shield, or a single defensive cooldown will allow to survive the waves without to many problems.

Sure you can start whining someone else is hammering you already, but in that case the healer should already be focussing you, and you know dark soul is off cooldown and will be used whenever the warlock feels like you'll die from it.


Now the big question is, why are people suddenly whining about chaos wave after this patch?
Is it because dark soul can no longer be dispelled? AFAIK players at 1.5k rating lacked the skills to instantly dispel dark soul and would still take the massive crits to the face....

It's because they noticed the increase of them in arenas/battlegrounds now, because everyone thought that warlocks were shit(because affliction isn't as good anymore). That'd be my guess.

Also, your scenarios are grossly simplified, hardly evident and do not represent an actual arena situation in any sense. Too many factors play in besides "x spell vs y spell", but I can assure you that a rallying cry will not save you from 2 waves with everything popped, and a partner with an actual brain.

I know enough to back up what i say, i don't simply pull things out of my arse.

Yes, Chaos Wave hits hard, but i stand my ground, if you let a warlock get above 500 demonic power and do nothing to prevent it, you deserve to get that burst done on you.

And btw, Chaos Wave isn't LoS-able. If you're in range of the warlock when he casts it, you'll get it by Chaos Wave even if you hide behind something.

You want to know how to stop a demo warlock from building up enough demonic power?

- CC his pet for the duration of your next offensive
- make sure the healer wont be able to reach the warlock during the next step
- use whatever you can to lower the warlock's HP, it doesn't matter if you have to waste minor CDs; a demo warlock has just so many defenses, if you keep hitting him constantly it will be either die or pop an untimely meta. Soak whatever he throws at you, which will probably be just 1 Touch of Chaos without cds to back it and that's it, you get a warlock without demonic power and survival cds as a target.

Im not a "PVP Hero" but i DO know what i'm talking about. If only achievements are proof of someone's ability for you, go tell someone who cares.

The worlds best players can not do what you are trying to suggest.

Play some arenas, and review your master plan once again.

[Jawless Jones]

no one seems to think that the OP might have no resil...

[ThackerSS]

no one seems to think that the OP might have no resil...

I'm sitting at 60.5 Resil
actually.

[Shaderas]

Stop posting in this topic. You are not knowledgeable enough about PVP.

Your Starshatter is transmogrified to Starshatter. Mind = blown.

[Reith]

Your Starshatter is transmogrified to Starshatter. Mind = blown.

I know, right? I like the LFR version's look more than the normal one. I'll probably do the same to the heroic version because I like blue more than red.

Anyway, on-topic. Talk to any high-level PVP player who's experienced Demo Warlocks for themselves in 3v3, 5v5 and/or RBGs. They will all tell you that too much of their damage comes from Chaos Wave during Dark Soul and it is too good for what you can set up. For example, if a Demo Warlock has a Druid partner, they can Vortex you into their partner's Chaos Waves. You cannot avoid that. Death Grip also works and can be used on TWO people to get them into it. If, say, a Shadow Priest is being trained by a melee (or even better, two), they can Life Grip their Demo Warlock partner into melee range and have them use Chaos Wave so close that you can't possibly avoid it. Warriors can use Dragon Roar to knock you into the path of a Chaos Wave, easily.

It's not as easy to avoid as some people make it out to be.

[Deleted]

Talk to any high-level PVP player who's experienced Demo Warlocks for themselves in 3v3, 5v5 and/or RBGs. They will all tell you that too much of their damage comes from Chaos Wave during Dark Soul and it is too good for what you can set up. For example, if a Demo Warlock has a Druid partner, they can Vortex you into their partner's Chaos Waves. You cannot avoid that. Death Grip also works and can be used on TWO people to get them into it. If, say, a Shadow Priest is being trained by a melee (or even better, two), they can Life Grip their Demo Warlock partner into melee range and have them use Chaos Wave so close that you can't possibly avoid it.

While I agree with the main body of your argument, this:

Warriors can use Dragon Roar to knock you into the path of a Chaos Wave, easily.

is so hypothetical and far fetched that it makes me question how much you actually know about Dragon Roar and the rest of the topic's subject for that matter.

On Demo-Locks : Yes, Chaos Waves are strong. Stronger now, because of the PvP Power buff and the unremovable Dark Soul. While this is all good and powerful, you have to remember that their Aura (which was at that point the main reason for playing Demo) was nerfed into the ground after which had cement poured over it.

People keep arguing about how X Class is OP, like Warriors a month or two ago. And yet, in the Bnet World Championship only 1 of the top teams actually had a Warrior! Almost everyone was running a Shaman and a Mage/Warlock as 2 of their team's members. Most people play in the "mid" bracket (1700-2100) where certain classes are just easier to play. A 1800 Warrior (pre-nerf) would ALWAYS win against a 1800 Warlock. However, as rating goes up, viability changes - certain classes cap out at certain ratings, after which people just understand and implement counter-tactics. Even now - people cry about Warriors, when in mid to high ratings Feral Druids are just plain better.

In summary - Yes, Warlocks are possibly too strong. They may need a slight nerf. However, people are, once again, complaining based on personal experience and thus, due to vast variations in arena experience/rating among players, the community cannot come to a consensus on what is OP and overlooks blatantly broken (in good and bad ways) classes.

[Theholypally]

I keep hearing a lot of things about locks and how you can simply "Los their chaos waves" or "interrupt their chaos bolt"

It's so easy!

Only, it's really not. Pvp extends beyond the arena. Maybe because, idk, you are stunned, feared, cced, rooted, disoriented, or otherwise. Or god forbid you have no Los nearby (BGs and world pvp).

Stop trying to make this out to be something so simple when other factors play a HUGE impact on what warlocks can do. If a warlock works with ONE other team mate and coordinates their attacks, they can and usually will get you.

[Terahertz]

As WW monk I gotta say you were outplayed. You could've reflected all of his burst so damn easily or negate all of his damage by using Diffuse Magic.

[Theholypally]

As WW monk I gotta say you were outplayed. You could've reflected all of his burst so damn easily or negate all of his damage by using Diffuse Magic.

Wasn't it discussed already that diffuse magic doesn't work? Because its chaos damage not magic?

Thought I saw someone post that

[Lulbalance]

I keep hearing a lot of things about locks and how you can simply "Los their chaos waves" or "interrupt their chaos bolt"

It's so easy!

Only, it's really not. Pvp extends beyond the arena, where Los is right beside you. Maybe because, idk, you are stunned, feared, cced, rooted, disoriented, or otherwise. Or god forbid you have no Los nearby (BGs and world pvp).

Stop trying to make this out to be something so simple when other factors play a HUGE impact on what warlocks can do. If a warlock works with ONE other team mate and coordinates their attacks, they can and usually will get you.

any class that coordinates their attacks well can and will get you, whats your point? the comps that cant get you.. are not 'viable compositions'.

i'm trying not to sound dickish in alot of my posts but pvp'rs have started to whine so much about things that they dont understand that it's literally killing the game because bliz is buckling and simplifying it for these idiots.

if you're having trouble with a class.. learn how to counter it. learn how to slow their dmg in burst.. and learn to pay attention to what they're doing. this isnt rocket science... demo locks are not THAT hard to play against it. dont run to the forums blindly with a screen shot of you being clowned by someone expecting sympathy.

like.. getting globalled in a BG and caring too much like a typical casual bad. bliz says; i guess watching buffs is too hard.. + dmg. this whole thing is beginning to sicken me, should sicken anyone who knows how to play.

[Theholypally]

any class that coordinates their attacks well can and will get you, whats your point? the comps that cant get you.. are not 'viable compositions'.

i'm trying not to sound dickish in alot of my posts but pvp'rs have started to whine so much about things that they dont understand that it's literally killing the game because bliz is buckling and simplifying it for these idiots.

if you're having trouble with a class.. learn how to counter it. learn how to slow their dmg in burst.. and learn to pay attention to what they're doing. this isnt rocket science... demo locks are not THAT hard to play against it. dont run to the forums blindly with a screen shot of you being clowned by someone expecting sympathy.

like.. getting globalled in a BG and caring too much like a typical casual bad. bliz says; i guess watching buffs is too hard.. + dmg. this whole thing is beginning to sicken me, should sicken anyone who knows how to play.

I hate the generic responses from most people that simply say " don't get hit" or something along those lines that are equally moronic.

I'm aware of what coordinated teams can do with ANY class. This discussion was about warlocks though. I have no sympathy for people getting one shot, or am I in any way on some crusade against warlocks. I simply said that its never as easy as some of the dim wits claim it is to avoid those huge damaging bursts especially against a very well geared and well played lock.

I'm not sure if that last bit was directed at me or not, you'll notice I wasn't the one posting screenshots or screaming for nerfs. I acknowledge power houses when I see them.

[Lulbalance]

I hate the generic responses from most people that simply say " don't get hit" or something along those lines that are equally moronic.

I'm aware of what coordinated teams can do with ANY class. This discussion was about warlocks though. I have no sympathy for people getting one shot, or am I in any way on some crusade against warlocks. I simply said that its never as easy as some of the dim wits claim it is to avoid those huge damaging bursts especially against a very well geared and well played lock.

I'm not sure if that last bit was directed at me or not, you'll notice I wasn't the one posting screenshots or screaming for nerfs. I acknowledge power houses when I see them.

i dont think like you.

it IS that easy.. he's still gotta press the buttons, his buffs still have to go up.. they still have to set up on you. I'm sorry maybe i've played too long and done this to death. maybe i'm jaded and getting irritated by people who still.. STILL can't figure out momentum mechanics in a 10 year old game.

or maybe you're just playing with sh*tters. or maybe you are a sh*tter. i dunno man, all i know is - i almost have to take my headphones off when a demon lock DS's in one of our 3s games because we're all yelling that warning. if someone dies in that burst than someone steps up and says 'i didnt X,Y,Z and thats my bad.' not; 'that class is unbeatable link forums i'm gonna screen shot.'

and never did i say 'don't get hit'. what i said.. or what i've been eluding to in every whining, baby barf thread that ISNT a legit bug is this; learn to expect that burst.. understand how they burst and learn how to stop that side o their game. thats it.. nothing fancy. if you know what he's going to try and burst with you and how.. then you know approx when; then you can defend against it. people like you don't.. and instead of bothering to find out you come here and expect to draw people into this weak, cop out bs that the class is impossible to deal with cause ' i have a screenie of me getting hit really hard!!'.

[Theholypally]

i dont think like you.

it IS that easy.. he's still gotta press the buttons, his buffs still have to go up.. they still have to set up on you. I'm sorry maybe i've played too long and done this to death. maybe i'm jaded and getting irritated by people who still.. STILL can't figure out momentum mechanics in a 10 year old game.

or maybe you're just playing with sh*tters. or maybe you are a sh*tter. i dunno man, all i know is - i almost have to take my headphones off when a demon lock DS's in one of our 3s games because we're all yelling that warning. if someone dies in that burst than someone steps up and says 'i didnt X,Y,Z and thats my bad.' not; 'that class is unbeatable link forums i'm gonna screen shot.'

and never did i say 'don't get hit'. what i said.. or what i've been eluding to in every whining, baby barf thread that ISNT a legit bug is this; learn to expect that burst.. understand how they burst and learn how to stop that side o their game. thats it.. nothing fancy. if you know what he's going to try and burst with you and how.. then you know approx when; then you can defend against it. people like you don't.. and instead of bothering to find out you come here and expect to draw people into this weak, cop out bs that the class is impossible to deal with cause ' i have a screenie of me getting hit really hard!!'.

I guess my first impression of you was wrong then, you are an idiot if you think "that's me" considering I never complained about it. The fact that you honestly believe its possible to expect that kind of damage every single time, from ANY class, and that all good players magically know its coming just proves it.

The fact is, you get hit. You can be number one in the world or the bottom feeder in a random bg. You will get hit. Not everytime, but you will get hit. The sooner people like YOU get that, the easier these threads will go for you. You can be as jaded and blame anyone else you want, my point still stands that it doesn't matter how good your "spidy senses" are when it comes to pvp you won't avoid it all.

Not even the best players in the world can avoid all the burst from locks, every single time. What makes you think you're so much better then they are? (Here's a hint: I mentioned why they, and others, get hit to begin with)

I also never, not once, attempted to push the illusion that warlock damage is completely impossible to deal with (heres another hint: it has to do with getting hit because you CANNOT avoid it) If you even bothered to read what I posted you might have understood that before making yourself look like a jack ass.

[Lulbalance]

I guess my first impression of you was wrong then, you are an idiot if you think "that's me" considering I never complained about it. The fact that you honestly believe its possible to expect that kind of damage every single time, from ANY class, and that all good players magically know its coming just proves it.

The fact is, you get hit. You can be number one in the world or the bottom feeder in a random bg. You will get hit. Not everytime, but you will get hit. The sooner people like YOU get that, the easier these threads will go for you. You can be as jaded and blame anyone else you want, my point still stands that it doesn't matter how good your "spidy senses" are when it comes to pvp you won't avoid it all.

Not even the best players in the world can avoid all the burst from locks, every single time. What makes you think you're so much better then they are? (Here's a hint: I mentioned why they, and others, get hit to begin with)

I also never, not once, attempted to push the illusion that warlock damage is completely impossible to deal with (heres another hint: it has to do with getting hit because you CANNOT avoid it) If you even bothered to read what I posted you might have understood that before making yourself look like a jack ass.

i'm not reading this sh*t. i'm done with you dude, you don't even really play this game.

[Theholypally]

i'm not reading this sh*t. i'm done with you dude, you don't even really play this game.

My point exactly. You don't read, or think, before you post.

Something you should work on.

[Lulbalance]

My point exactly. You don't read, or think, before you post.

Something you should work on.

OK DUDE! you got me, you can win cause you care alot i guess. good luck with your gaming stuff.

[Deleted]

If you let a demo warlock build enough demonic power to reach a point where he can pop meta with all his cds and deal that much damage with one Chaos Wave, then yeah, you weren't the best of players...

My €0.02, as a demo pvp player, who knows how much hard it is to build demonic power while people are focusing you down.

Maybe that's the reason you're only 1700. And for all the people actually trying to defend this kind of damage, even though it's avoidable, it still shouldn't be in the game.

[Dcruize]

Maybe that's the reason you're only 1700. And for all the people actually trying to defend this kind of damage, even though it's avoidable, it still shouldn't be in the game.

This - 200k starsurges, chaos waves and heroic strikes would be bad enough even without the increase in CCs and decrease in defensive dispels that MoP brought us.

[Deleted]

So easy to LoS an instant cast.. yes, yes it is.

^ This basically, but this is nothing compared to blood fear... WTF is up with that shizz?