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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooxi View Post
    What makes you think it was nostalgia? I know a lot of people who raid vanilla and TBC raids with me and only do those regardless of how they look.... At least the game has a challenge to it and not a complete piece or garbage like it is today on live realms.

    I myself stopped raiding after they nerfed cata heroics and haven't been back since. I loved TBC ... Best time ever soo I still raid on a daily basis. If blizz ever gets their thumb out of their ass and admits how they were wrong to change from TBC and Vanilla style pretty much everything. If they do I might be back .. If not I continue to save $15 a month
    I agree with you. I had more fun raiding back in TBC than I have in anything since. Ulduar was fun but nothing compared to Kara/ Gruul/ Mag/SSC/TK/Hyjal/BT and SWP.

  2. #542
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    The 3 new MoP ones.

  3. #543

  4. #544
    1.Gruuls Lair

  5. #545
    Naxx (80)



  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Vektorix View Post
    Same caveats as before:

    1. Trial of the Crusader - with the exception of Faction Champions (which was awesome as an exercise in breaking people out of the usual PvE mindset), an absolutely terrible waste of time. Not only were the encounters bad, the entire concept of the raid was stupid beyond belief. Yes, let's pause in our march of war upon the Lich King to have a tournament in the frozen wastes that (theoretically anyway) would kill many of our best warriors. Blizzard at its absolute worst.

    2. Icecrown Citadel. Only a marginal step up from ToC, in no way did ICC seem like a true headquarters of evil. Badly designed story (hey guys - we have a gunship that can fly us up the outside of the fortress - why don't we go all the way to the roof and take out the Lich King now?), badly designed encounters, just bad.

    3. Tempest Keep. As good as Serpentshrine Cavern and Lady Vashj were in Tier 5, Tempest Keep and Kael'thas Sunstrider were the opposite. None of the bosses made a lot of sense (exactly how did they intend to get Void Reaver out of there?), the interior of the structure didn't bear a lot of resemblance to the exterior, and the Kael'thas encounter was ridiculous (just because it was hard didn't make it good - "first I'll talk to you, then I'll let you kill my pals one after the other, then I'll animate their weapons JUST so you can loot them and get their benefits, then I'll let you kill my advisors over again, just for kicks, then I'll fight you". awful. Lady Vashj was a complex fight that felt like it was a real battle - not quite as "real" as Archimonde, still and forever the gold standard of bosses determined to kill you - but Kael'thas was just a kabuki drama resulting in loot.)
    Altough i don't agree with your opinion, i really respect the explanations .. +1 for that

    On topic i'd say:

    1: Naxxramas 2 (I never did the original one, but i've heard incredible stories about it, the difficulty and the prestige in defeating things in there and the story) - Reusing things is just plain retarded imo, and it wasn't harder than Violet hold
    2: Ruby Sanctum - It took forever to come out, and when it did, it was extremely bugged for ages (at least felt like ages) and the one and only purpose of it, was that ICC had been boring for to long
    3: Dragon Soul - What mostly ruins this raid for me is .. Rogues, at least 110% of all rogues i ever saw had Fangs (which i think is quite bad). And LFR was so extremely easy that it should be able to do it while sleeping, yet i spend ½ the week wiping in there (i do realize that's not the raids fault, and i actually liked the concept and the fights, but that still burns inside me when i think of "Dragon Soul")
    Last edited by SalcN; 2012-12-05 at 07:18 PM.

  7. #547
    Dragon Soul
    Third is either anything else from Cata or ICC25/Ruby Sanctum depending on the day of the week, Mayan Calendar etc.

    The only reason firelands isn't listed specifically is simply because there should have been another raid in that tier, but blizzard was too busy designing add fights and daily quests to bother giving a shit.

  8. #548
    Merely a Setback Butter Emails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Smashing Trumpkins
    There is a strong argument for your case and the common perception agreeing which perhaps is also tied to the idea that only 20% of bosses will be better than average. The more bosses a tier has, the more likely it is to have one of those memorable bosses and thus for the tier on a whole to be remembered fondly. For example, TK wasn't great and SSC was also relatively average, but because of Vashj and Kael that tier tends to be very fondly remembered. Same goes for MC - the tier and environment are nothing special, but the Ragnaros fight was so memorable that it adds value to the whole tier.
    From Tier 5, Leotheras and Al'ar were both pretty memorable. In MC I remember Garr and especially Geddon. People blowing up the raid and wondering why one of your groups was suddenly gone? While annoying at the time, priceless later. Also, anyone who was doing breakthrough raiding... i.e. extremely early Vanilla where you were one of the first raids to set foot into MC and work for days on Lucifron to finally down him was priceless, and thus... while simple, is a very memorable boss.

    I think the "lots of bosses" is a mix of both memorable boss fights and having lots of easier boss fights as well, because it feels good to get easy bosses between the hard ones.

    The short tiers are either too easy (ToC) and you're left feeling like "What now?" or they're too hard (Sunwell) and you have guilds hemorrhaging members and eventually disbanding because of them.
    Last edited by Butter Emails; 2012-12-05 at 08:39 PM.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    "How do Trump's people keep forgetting that they met with Russians?" -Trevor Noah
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Read the rest of the thread. One is aloud to make an error..

  9. #549
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Under your bridge, stomping your trollz!
    1: Wintergrasp and Tol'Barad raids - OMG you logged into game this week. Here is your free loot for doing absolutely nothing. Enjoy
    2: ToC - Do I really need to explain?
    3: Molten core - The epitome of AFK raiding. Boss mechanics were a joke and didn't come even close to requiring 30 people let alone 40.

  10. #550
    ToC, EoE, Naxx 25

  11. #551
    Going to judge them based on when they came out, not how they held up to the test of time:

    1. ToC: First, the raid was a "filler" raid and it showed it. The story behind the raid was wonky (sending the best to fight against the Lich King). The raid was also very short, both in size (2 rooms total) and in bosses (5). At the time, everybody was waiting on ICC to come out, not this. Large disappointment

    2. Dragon Soul: Again, this was not a very long raid, with only 3 of the bosses having trash tied to them. Some of the boss fights didn't even feel like they were in the same instance (traveling to EoE, on a boat, on deathwing's back, then a fight at the maelstrom) with zero feeling of actually traveling to these locations, with cutscenes tying the locations together. The boss mechanics were a joke on some fights. Huge letdown for an end raid.

    3. Naxx 10/25 (80): The level 60 version of the instance was great. The level 80 version was not - mostly for one reason: they tweaked the 60 version and gave it back to us as "new" content. All of the mechanics behaved the exact same way (in 25 - some changes to 10 man). They changed some of the models on gear, but left everything else almost exactly intact. The 60 version was an end-game raid (read: difficult) while this felt closer to an LFR version of the same raid.

    Honorable mention:
    Flame Leviathan - if this fight was in its own instance, it would probably be one of the worst MMO raids ever. Forget all of your class mechanics and ride a vehicle.
    Malygos (EoE) - At least we didn't have to ride the drake for the whole instance. The vortex (to me) is one of the more interesting fight mechanics I've seen at least. Good thing we can now burn Maly down before getting to the drakes. (#4 on my list - at least Blizzard tried to make a new raid with EoE)
    Shazzrah (MC) - Nothing like having a good chunk of your raid (Rogues/Warriors) pull out their bandages just to be useful in a raid. Significantly too much melee hate. (Also, after building a FR set just for some bosses, who really wanted to build an Arcane Resist set just for 1 boss?)
    Gunship (ICC) - At 80, 1/4 of your raid could go afk for a sandwitch and you would have about the same odds of success. The difficulty just did not fit the rest of the instance... almost like having a halftime for an instance -but with loot.

  12. #552
    *travels into the future*

    1. Siege of Orgrimmar - WHAT A REHASHED PIECE OF ****
    2. The Burning Citadel - The Sargeras fight was so dissapointing... just fighting adds on his head
    3. Dragon Soul - Even after so many years.... it is still one of the worst raids

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