Why do people care so much that they have to work for things?

[Devic]

Because they're optional. Those rewards are the same as raid gear..which you gain from raiding..which also requires work.

They put them behind it so that if you want another shot at loot, again, you work for it.

I'm kinda sick of people bitching because things aren't easy to get anymore.

Work for it like you would for something you want.

I've used barely any Elder Tokens and I've been fine, personally, for gear.

487 iLevel whoop whoop.

How are any of the gated item enhancement recipes "optional"? And valor gear IS raid gear, so why is it a reward for doing non-raid content? Easy content, I should add, no where near the "work" required to do raids.

The point is that dailies AREN'T optional because Blizz took previous rewards (which you still had to "work" for) and gated them behind factions dailies to get players to do that "content". YOU are making the argument that players don't want to work for gear. That isn't the case. Players want the option to earn gear in a way they find fun. For some, it's doing dailies. For others, it's doing dungeons, raids. You even said raiding counts as work. So why can't they spend their valor points on valor gear that they earned?

[Mawnix]

How are any of the gated item enhancement recipes "optional"? And valor gear IS raid gear, so why is it a reward for doing non-raid content? Easy content, I should add, no where near the "work" required to do raids.

The point is that dailies AREN'T optional because Blizz took previous rewards (which you still had to "work" for) and gated them behind factions dailies to get players to do that "content". YOU are making the argument that players don't want to work for gear. That isn't the case. Players want the option to earn gear in a way they find fun. For some, it's doing dailies. For others, it's doing dungeons, raids. You even said raiding counts as work. So why can't they spend their valor points on valor gear that they earned?

Before I respond to your post fully, one question:

Do you raid and what is your progression.

[Eorayn]

The game would be boring and free of progress, if you wouldn’t have to work for things.
But as always, community be hatin’. QQ, whining, flamewars.. every time.

[Leonard McCoy]

..I just explained why. I like to understand things. This is one of them, so I made the post and it matters to me. I'm a unbiased person, and I"m arguing from a fan of the game's perspective. Why does it matter so much to you? You're not going to change my opinion in the slightest 0.o.

That's the whole point. I'm not gonna change your opinion. If I could change your opinion, if anyone could, then their would be hope for this game. But since this community is so fucking hard up and stubborn and won't accept moderate reforms and criticism (even when it's coming from guys like you who don't care in the end but love to write forum posts telling me why I'm wrong for being mad at this and why I should get a better virtual work ethic) the game suffers and loses players. Really in the end you just harm yourself and Blizzard.

[Deleted]

I assume your exalted with the factions already? Let's say the retroactively made it so you could grind those factions out in dungeons, outside of caving into whiners would you care?

I don't see how they could implement a different reputation system (like the present one) while still having rep tabards. How would you advance in the story without setting foot in the world? And without a cap on rep you would have defeated the purpose of having long-term raid quality gear outside of raids.

I agree with untying profession patters from rep vendors, though. And possibily on giving an alternate source of Lesser coins.

[Mawnix]

That's the whole point. I'm not gonna change your opinion. If I could change your opinion, if anyone could, then their would be hope for this game. But since this community is so fucking hard up and stubborn and won't accept moderate reforms and criticism (even when it's coming from guys like you who don't care in the end but love to write forum posts telling me why I'm wrong for being mad at this and why I should get a better virtual work ethic) the game suffers and loses players. Really in the end you just harm yourself and Blizzard.

Okay. Well, that's your opinion. And what happens if the game is still successful, let's say, 3-4 years from now.

Regardless of your opinion on WoW.

What would happen.

[Devic]

Before I respond to your post fully, one question:

Do you raid and what is your progression.

I raided Normal in Cata, our guild hasn't attempted to raid yet this xpac because 1/2 of our regular raid quit.

[Mawnix]

I raided Normal in Cata, our guild hasn't attempted to raid yet this xpac because 1/2 of our regular raid quit.

So then why're you judging the system at all 0.o.

[Leonard McCoy]

I don't see how they could implement a different reputation system (like the present one) while still having rep tabards. How would you advance in the story without setting foot in the world? And without a cap on rep you would have defeated the purpose in having raid quality gear outside of raids.

I agree with untying profession patters from rep vendors, though. And possibily on giving an alternate source of Lesser coins.

My love and enjoyment of wow story is ruined the second time I do a daily quest. In any event not everybody is a story buff and their are lots of games that do it better if you were such a person. Gameplay should always trump lore IMHO but nobody is actually asking for the dailies to be taken away as far as I know so they will still be there for people to see the story.

The simple answer is to simple remove the rep requirement from the gear and the patterns and the charms. Dailies will still be extremely rewarding, moreso then they've every been really. You can increase the valor gain from them as well I don't really care.

---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 09:33 PM ----------

Okay. Well, that's your opinion. And what happens if the game is still successful, let's say, 3-4 years from now.

Regardless of your opinion on WoW.

What would happen.

We won't have to wait 3-4 years from now. We will see in feb what the numbers say. I don't think wow will die or go away or anything like that, it will still be sucesfull in 3-4 just not as succesful and i'm positive it won't be under this daily/slow reward paradigm.

[Deleted]

If lesser charms were dropped from bosses and you didnt need revered to buy certain items I'd agree dailies are optional.
I literally haven't heard anyone ingame say they like the dailies. Maybe because I don't hang out with non-raiders idk.
Also I Used to like playing alts.

[Mawnix]

My love and enjoyment of wow story is ruined the second time I do a daily quest. In any event not everybody is a story buff and their are lots of games that do it better if you were such a person. Gameplay should always trump lore IMHO but nobody is actually asking for the dailies to be taken away as far as I know so they will still be there for people to see the story.

The simple answer is to simple remove the rep requirement from the gear and the patterns and the charms. Dailies will still be extremely rewarding, moreso then they've every been really. You can increase the valor gain from them as well I don't really care.

---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 09:33 PM ----------



We won't have to wait 3-4 years from now. We will see in feb what the numbers say. I don't think wow will die or go away or anything like that, it will still be sucesfull in 3-4 just not as succesful and i'm positive it won't be under this daily/slow reward paradigm.

But you don't know that.

None of us do.

For all we know the game could slump to 1 million subscribers then all the way to 20 million in 3 years.

None of us know how this'll play out.

On this note, I'm done with this side conversation because there's no point in it anymore.

[Deleted]

My love and enjoyment of wow story is ruined the second time I do a daily quest. In any event not everybody is a story buff and their are lots of games that do it better if you were such a person. Gameplay should always trump lore IMHO but nobody is actually asking for the dailies to be taken away as far as I know so they will still be there for people to see the story.

The simple answer is to simple remove the rep requirement from the gear and the patterns and the charms. Dailies will still be extremely rewarding, moreso then they've every been really. You can increase the valor gain from them as well I don't really care.[COLOR="red"]

The problem with your suggestion is that reputations wouldnt have unique non-vanity rewards anymore, thus making them fairly irrelevant.
There could be a middle ground though, probably: some Valor gear untied from rep and other pieces still gated behind it, possibily with higher ilvl.

[yjmark]

Like others have said before, the big issue is that it was different in previous expansions - you could complete all content much quicker. In MoP, it takes longer. That is change. Someone will always hate that change is being made. So, when things take longer, people will complain.

Of course, if Blizz kept it the same, people would complain.
If Blizz reduced the amount of time, people would complain.

No matter what Blizz does, there will always be a group of people complaining. And they will state that Blizz is ruining the game and losing subs because of it. It truly does not matter what it is. This has been proven time and time again with every change and expansion to the game.

[Leonard McCoy]

The problem with your suggestion is that reputations wouldnt have unique non-vanity rewards anymore, thus making them fairly irrelevant.
There could be a middle ground though, probably: some Valor gear untied from rep and other pieces still gated behind it, possibily with higher ilvl.

Not necessary. Dailies and the rep ground from the have historically only had non vanity rewards behind. I don't see why that's a problem? Like I said increase the valor gain from them. They still award gold, valor, tabards, mounts, pets, xmog items which is more than they've ever awarded. They should actually award more cool XMOG stuff IMO. That's good daily stuff. Like imagine if they had a daily story line where you forged some sha touched piece of armor and you had a blacksmith faction and at exalted or revered you got a sweet looking piece of XMOG gear to pick from. Sadly the gear is kinda meh in this tier but that's in general the stuff that should be behind dailies.

[Deleted]

"work" for our gear, a bizzare and silly notion in a video game if I ever heard of one. Maybe tmmrw I'll raise a barn or something.

You think it's ridiculous that someone should put effort into something so that they can become better? Are you an idiot? Do you also think that we should just skip leveling? Or maybe free gear once a week for just logging in? I can understand that some people think that they seem to be putting ''too much'' effort what the rewards that they get but just because it is a game doesn't mean it's all whatever the hell you want. Professional football players practice all the time and then perform because of their efforts; do you think scouts choose players that do shit all and expect to get picked because they're spoiled b****? Football and WoW are both games so trying to say that because WoW is a game you shouldn't need to put effort into it, is just silly. You don't want have to earn your gear? Go find some private server and gets free epics there. Besides, getting an item with no effort gives no sense of accomplishment.

Also, dungeons and raids aren't the only things that qualify as content. Pet battles, scenarios and brawler's guild all count as content. Also, what the hell did you mean that RNG isn't RNG? What is RNG then in your opinion? Buying boe gear isn't offsetting RNG, it's just decreasing the amount a player has to rely on RNG to upgrade their ilvl.

Yeah the overall community is pretty bad, but you, basically wanting gear without effort, are the kind of person that makes playing WoW pointless. Part of the reason I, personally, play WoW is because I've set myself the goal of getting all the possible achievements and each step of progress brings a little satisfaction because it means that my effort didn't go unrewarded, even if I spend hours just to get an extra 10 achievement points.

You claim that players like the OP are entitled. HA! You give the impression that you don't want to work for your gear, so it's pretty fricken hilarious that you would call someone else entitled XD.

[Devic]

So then why're you judging the system at all 0.o.

Because I dislike dailies. I do them, but only for flavor rewards and then look forward to never have to do them again. Blizz changed that by leveraging previous rewards that one could get outside of dailies. They also added new exclusive raid currency to keep you doing dailies throughout an entire xpac with no other optional way to obtain them. Options, that's what I, and I'm sure other would like. Another optional way to obtain valor gear. Item enhancement recipes. Elder Charms. Work for it, yes, but not exclusive to dailies.

So, I answered you question, now respond fully to my post.

[Leonard McCoy]

You think it's ridiculous that someone should put effort into something so that they can become better? Are you an idiot? Do you also think that we should just skip leveling? Or maybe free gear once a week for just logging in? I can understand that some people think that they seem to be putting ''too much'' effort what the rewards that they get but just because it is a game doesn't mean it's all whatever the hell you want. Professional football players practice all the time and then perform because of their efforts; do you think scouts choose players that do shit all and expect to get picked because they're spoiled b****? Football and WoW are both games so trying to say that because WoW is a game you shouldn't need to put effort into it, is just silly. You don't want have to earn your gear? Go find some private server and gets free epics there. Besides, getting an item with no effort gives no sense of accomplishment.

Also, dungeons and raids aren't the only things that qualify as content. Pet battles, scenarios and brawler's guild all count as content. Also, what the hell did you mean that RNG isn't RNG? What is RNG then in your opinion? Buying boe gear isn't offsetting RNG, it's just decreasing the amount a player has to rely on RNG to upgrade their ilvl.

Yeah the overall community is pretty bad, but you, basically wanting gear without effort, are the kind of person that makes playing WoW pointless. Part of the reason I, personally, play WoW is because I've set myself the goal of getting all the possible achievements and each step of progress brings a little satisfaction because it means that my effort didn't go unrewarded, even if I spend hours just to get an extra 10 achievement points.

You claim that players like the OP are entitled. HA! You give the impression that you don't want to work for your gear, so it's pretty fricken hilarious that you would call someone else entitled XD.

So wow is a professional sport now? Do I get paid like Bret Farve? How many useless dumb comparison can you guys make to real life before you get the hint. Wow is not actually real life and this virtual work ethic you've all seemed to embrace is not helpful. Should I be required to heard some sheep for an epic?

[Crimsonfiend76]

Before I respond to your post fully, one question:

Do you raid and what is your progression.

what does that have to do with anything? when you have the best raid enchants gated behind rep, tell me how dailies are still optional? and yes, i do currently raid in a super casual guild and only downed the first couple bosses. let me ask you a question, how many alts do you have raid geared with maxxed out professions?

[ZehGeek]

The game would be boring and free of progress, if you wouldn’t have to work for things.
But as always, community be hatin’. QQ, whining, flamewars.. every time.

I agree! I actualy was like "Duuuuuuudddeeeeee" at the end of the Klaxxi storyline. Made me feel pretty good after that, and riding my Amber scorpion. Always needs to be some sort of 'work' for something. Your boss wouldn't give you a paycheck for 40 hours if you only did 10 hours, and I really wouldn't want to be advanced to the last level automaticly when I couldn't beat level 2 because I didn't "want to work and put time into the game".
And yea, like few thousand people out of a few million.

So wow is a professional sport now? Do I get paid like Bret Farve? How many useless dumb comparison can you guys make to real life before you get the hint. Wow is not actually real life and this virtual work ethic you've all seemed to embrace is not helpful. Should I be required to heard some sheep for an epic?

Well, you put "work" and "time" into leveling up your ranks in CoD yes? If a particular level in say a single player game gives you a tough time, you don't just say "NERFDAGAMEPLXSQUAREENIX", no you keep trying till you beat it, with normal breaks inbetween, right? Do you unlock all your dragon shouts at the beginning of Skyrim..or instantly get into the Thief's Guild or College while at level 1 and not doing a single thing for them? You can't get away with not putting effort into something. RL or "Video Game". Blizzard is not asking you to build a house like you claim and seem to feel...but you can't go "up up down left right left right" and instawin everything on the flip side.

[Mawnix]

what does that have to do with anything? when you have the best raid enchants gated behind rep, tell me how dailies are still optional? and yes, i do currently raid in a super casual guild and only downed the first couple bosses. let me ask you a question, how many alts do you have raid geared with maxxed out professions?

Because if you read my original post, if you're a raider, the dailies aren't MEANT for you.

Do you NEED Elder Charms.

Do you NEED the gear from Valor.

You have LFR, meaning you can run the same instances TWICE in one week, even if the iLevel is lower.

Not the mention you can now, also, upgrade the iLevel on your gear.

This also answers your post, Devic.

This game has always been based around RNG.

Valor point gear has NEVER filled in every slot for your gear.

It's usually a ring, some legs, shoulders, or a helm and that's it.

Refer to Cataclysm or Wrath for my points.