Should circumcision be the person's OWN choice?

[vindicatorx]

Maybe you should start reading as well?

"not essential to the child's current well-being."

please pull your head out of your anal cavity for a minute and realize that was what they thought 10 years ago, and have now disproved. You got it yet? Should I wait a few minutes and say the exact same thing realizing you will not ever admit to understand what is being said?

[Purlina]

please pull your head out of your anal cavity for a minute and realize that was what they thought 10 years ago, and have now disproved. You got it yet? Should I wait a few minutes and say the exact same thing realizing you will not ever admit to understand what is being said?

You fail to prove a point, I asked you why they performed the operation 10 years ago.

And if you want to act like a rude little brat, I can do that as well. I guess it's too much to expect a polite conversation...

[vindicatorx]

theres no evidence supporting either view. so my question is this, who are you to tell somebody else how to raise their kids? funny thing is i bet you would freak if somebody told you your kids were messed up and its your fault. whether you like it or not my kids are and will be circumcised and there is nothing you can do about it.

And I just posted new research on the previous page saying how it also lowers the risk for numerous STD's and such. Here it is yet again
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/health...ion/index.html

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 04:13 PM ----------

You fail to prove a point, I asked you why they performed the operations 10 years ago.

Here is the spelled out version for you since you still haven't read the article you just want to continue spewing garbage. You question is redundant people did it for numerous reasons that have already been mentioned and re-mentioned over and over. Do you really need an explanation for why people did things differently yesterday compared to today? No, who really cares? They did it for whatever personal reasons get over it please.

Circumcision is the surgical removal of the foreskin, a small flap of skin that covers the tip of the penis, generally performed in the days after birth. Many Jews and Muslims circumcise their sons because of their religious beliefs. Other parents choose to snip for hygiene reasons, believing it's easier to keep a circumcised penis clean, or cosmetic ones, wanting junior to "look like dad."

[Purlina]

And I just posted new research on the previous page saying how it also lowers the risk for numerous STD's and such. Here it is yet again
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/health...ion/index.html

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 04:13 PM ----------


here is the spelled out version for you since you still haven't read the article you just want to continue spewing garbage

LOL your a real class act. Instead of making a total ass out of yourself and trying to insult everyone, all you needed to say was:

1. Religion
2. Cosmetic
3. Hygeine

/yawn

[vindicatorx]

LOL your a real class act. Instead of making a total ass out of yourself, all you needed to say was:

1. Religion
2. Cosmetic
3. Hygeine

/yawn

Right you finally read it and I'm the ass? I don't understand why I had to do all the work for you once again I mean really if you had read it almost 2 pages ago instead of asking meaningless questions as you love to do, you wouldn't have looked as foolish. And trust me I might seem like an ass because I dislike how ignorant you act but I'm ok with that. I still have PM's in my box from the last time I made you look ridiculous.

[Purlina]

Right you finally read it and I'm the ass? I don't understand why I had to do all the work for you once again I mean really if you had read it almost 2 pages ago instead of asking meaningless questions as you love to do, you wouldn't have looked as foolish. And trust me I might seem like an ass because I dislike how ignorant you act but I'm ok with that. I still have PM's in my box from the last time I made you look ridiculous.

Are you done trying to be the internet tough guy yet?

If not, please wake me up when your done.

[Dasffion]

While I can understand the point I like and would prefer being circumcised and I'm glad it was done when I can't remember it. I wouldn't have wanted to have it done when I was old enough to make that decision.

I'm willing to bet though that a lot of people who say that it shouldn't be done, that it should be the child's choice, are ok with having their child immunized (above and beyond the major immunizations like Mumps, Smallpox ect.). I don't see a difference.

[vindicatorx]

Are you done trying to be the internet tough guy yet?

If not, please wake me up when your done.

It has nothing to do with being tough, you do this all the time and when evidence is given rather than take 3 minutes to read what I found to be an interesting article you continue to ask meaningless questions as if they are important to the discussion. I know you probably think you are clever but you aren't and it gets old I don't like making a point this way. I like to give my input, have it reviewed by others who in turn add their input. I don't think it's too much to ask do you?

[Purlina]

It has nothing to do with being tough, you do this all the time and when evidence is given rather than take 3 minutes to read what I found to be an interesting article you continue to ask meaningless questions as if they are important to the discussion. I know you probably think you are clever but you aren't and it gets old I don't like making a point this way. I like to give my input, have it reviewed by others who in turn add their input. I don't think it's too much to ask do you?

That is still no excuse to act superior when someone doesn't instantly agree with you, or asks a question. When someone asks me a question I don't start going off on them.

[vindicatorx]

While I can understand the point I like and would prefer being circumcised and I'm glad it was done when I can't remember it. I wouldn't have wanted to have it done when I was old enough to make that decision.

I'm willing to bet though that a lot of people who say that it shouldn't be done, that it should be the child's choice, are ok with having their child immunized (above and beyond the major immunizations like Mumps, Smallpox ect.). I don't see a difference.

The thing is to me the people who want the kid to decide for themselves are opting for this because it removes responsibility from themselves in making the choice. They can't make an educated decision on their own and would rather say hey I made the hard choice to allow you to eventually decide for yourself to get circumcised.

[Mnevis]

And I just posted new research on the previous page saying how it also lowers the risk for numerous STD's and such.

Not saying that there isn't such research, but you didn't post it. You posted an article about American doctors saying circumcision was ok and states shouldn't stop funding it. Shocking, American doctors have been saying circumcision is a good thing for 150 years. It's disappointing to those who think it should go away, but it's not evidence that they're wrong.

About the discussion who did circumcision first - I don't know who was first, but I know that Semite cultures in general (includes ancient Egyptians, Jews, Muslims, Christians...), as well as the cultures around Australia (New Guinea, Oceania, ...) have done it too for thousands of years.

Lots of cultures did lots of things. I could list a few that we've grown out of but I'm sure someone would be all 'how can you compare that to infant circumcision, that's outraaaaaageous.'

[vindicatorx]

That is still no excuse to act superior when someone doesn't instantly agree with you, or asks a question. When someone asks me a question I don't start going off on them.

It's not an act when I make a statement and you claim it's BS and make an absolutely dissimilar comparison like you did I posted a completely logical reasoning to which you ask why it wasn't known 10 years ago. What am I supposed to say uh dur they hadn't done the research yet? I mean honestly if this had been the first time I have been down this path with you I would be a lot nicer probably but this is at least the third time you act semi-literate when I posted factual data and then get sour after I say the exact same thing over and over and get tired of wasting my time on you.

[Purlina]

It's not an act when I make a statement and you claim it's BS and make an absolutely dissimilar comparison like you did I posted a completely logical reasoning to which you ask why it wasn't known 10 years ago. What am I supposed to say uh dur they hadn't done the research yet? I mean honestly if this had been the first time I have been down this path with you I would be a lot nicer probably but this is at least the third time you act semi-literate when I posted factual data and then get sour after I say the exact same thing over and over and get tired of wasting my time on you.

There you go again.

[vindicatorx]

Not saying that there isn't such research, but you didn't post it. You posted an article about American doctors saying circumcision was ok and states shouldn't stop funding it. Shocking, American doctors have been saying circumcision is a good thing for 150 years. It's disappointing to those who think it should go away, but it's not evidence that they're wrong.
'

Try reading the article as well. If you had read the article you would have caught that they after 15 years of saying there is no measurable reason to be circumcised they are now saying there is. You would have also noted the studies done in Africa where they have found circumcised men transmit HIV less often and other STD's and other things that cause problems for women like Urinary tract infections.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 04:54 PM ----------

There you go again.

Sigh ok don't make a bit of sense in anything. Continue to post 1 sentence remarks to up that post count.

[Masark]

You would have also noted the studies done in Africa where they have found circumcised men transmit HIV less often and other STD's and other things that cause problems for women like Urinary tract infections.

Studies (more like 1 study, as it was two concurrent studies by the same guy) which only covered adult circumcision and that are being looked at with skepticism towards their methodology by everyone else in the world except the AAP.

[DEATHETERNAL]

I have the same response to this thread as to thread in which people were supporting my child being taken from me and forcibly vaccinated against my will.

I don’t care what you think. If you get between me and my kid, I’ll kill you.

[Mnevis]

I read the article. It was an article. You said it was research. A CNN article saying "a study found X and a study found Y" is not research. I'm familiar with the reasons circumcision is currently advocated by Americans. (I say currently, because the list of reasons has grown long over the last hundred years. We don't prescribe it as a treatment for insomnia or epilepsy anymore, for example.) That article didn't even bother linking to or citing the actual studies (or their critics), let alone mention that they're siding with Saudi Arabia, Somalia, and the Philippines against the rest of the civilized world in their endorsement.

And anyways, as a person myself, I think I have the right to say "no, you don't get to make the decision that you're going to take off part of my body when I'm a newborn because there's a chance of a chance of a chance that it might prevent a problem or keep me from catching a disease years later." No, it's not like vaccination. It's an amputation.

Hey, here's an article about a German court saying it infringes on the rights of the child. Are we tied?

[Symphonic]

While I can understand the point I like and would prefer being circumcised and I'm glad it was done when I can't remember it. I wouldn't have wanted to have it done when I was old enough to make that decision.

I'm willing to bet though that a lot of people who say that it shouldn't be done, that it should be the child's choice, are ok with having their child immunized (above and beyond the major immunizations like Mumps, Smallpox ect.). I don't see a difference.

According to Purlina that means you don't really want to be circumcised. See Purlina, that way of thinking is wrong. It's good that parents get the responsibility of making that decision, and if the child somehow doesn't like it, it's not your fault or the doctors, it's the parents. But they're not missing out on anything if they got circumcised as a baby.

Essentially it all boils down to what you want to do culturally, and in some cases medically. My wife and I took 2 weeks after our sons birth to finally decide that getting him circumcised would be the best thing. 1 in 100 uncircumcised babies (under age of 1) will get a Urinary Tract Infection (UTI), which can be an easy to treat bladder infection, OR WORSE permanently damage you; when it's a baby, and they're unable to communicate by talking, you are going to be killed by their crying. It's painful to hear the cries of your baby. Compare that to 1 in 1000 for a circumcised baby. ten times less likely to get one.

We didn't care about the HIV or STD transmissions statistics, or the fact that good hygiene and cleaning helps. But the foreskin doesn't retract until 7-13 years of age, and babies under 1 have a much higher chance of getting a UTI and that's why we did not want to leave him uncircumcised.

Ultimately, that is why it's the parent's responsibility to make informed decisions for their child. I would not force anyone to do it for their kid, but we will do it for my sons. You can do what you wish with your baby. I hope that every parent does things for the sake of making their baby as healthy as possible. That's why we had a home birth, that's why we chose to get vaccinations because now it is less safe to not get them - especially since so many aren't getting them and outbreaks will become more likely. Do what you believe is best for your baby and I will do what I believe is best for mine.

[Beat5beat]

Then there's the whole point that about the time I am 40 there will be quite some keratin build up on my penis unless I stimulate skin growth or wear some fucking weird sheath.

You both present interesting points. I think perhaps there is a perfect sweet spot, as a circumsized man ages his sensitivity goes down far enough (due to multiple reasons) that regrowing the skin (to increase sensitivity on the now restored glans) brings him back into a sort of sweet spot for senstivity (not too sensitive, not too dull)

As to who performs better in bed on average, from what I hear from women that have experienced both, uncut men do not last as long and are sometimes overly sensitive, which matches Goatfish's experience. As to what the man feels, I could not comment.

As to the topic at hand, regardless of any performance in bed, I do think the practice is barbaric and I do not think that it should be done to a person incapable of making an informed decision.

[Tastyfish]

Better leave it as an adult decision.. We already suffered that mohel/Rabbi Fischer and the Hepititus transfer and death of babies. Shows that it's just best to protect everyone by letting the owner of the penis make the choice.

http://jewishwhistleblower.blogspot....-may-have.html