Absolutely not. I'm a man and the thought is absolutely absurd. We should have a say in whether or not the woman our stupid ass got pregnant? Not even a little. Her body, our word should only be able to influence her decision, no more.
However, I think a man should be able to say he has no wish to have the child and therefore loses the responsibilities etc.
That the majority said yes sickens me. Should a woman have any say in whether or not you get sterilised?
EDIT: I sorely doubt many sane men want to start a family with an unwilling mother, even if they could make a decision about it.
Yes, I have a daughter, and she alone is a handful.
My point was in relation to responsibility and a woman's right to chose. There's been a lot of discussion on the woman's right to have an abortion (i.e. the father can't stop her) but I thought I'd mention the other side of the equation, when the woman chooses to keep the child (because the father can't force an abortion either).
In my example, this girl had 5 kids, to 5 different guys. You make it sound like she's the victim here, poor girl alone raising 5 kids. When the reality is she made the same mistake, 5 times... well actually, a lot more than 5 if you count all the times she didn't get pregnant! There's talk of responsibility and the right to choose, well were was the responsibility here?
Remember I know (knew) this girl personally, so have a bit more insight into this story then some article in the tabloids. She see's her kids as a lottery ticket, which is disgusting.... especially since she was still stripping and dumped the kids on her parents.
Last edited by Dakara; 2012-12-05 at 07:19 AM.
I already explained what I think about that. My point is that regardless you still cannot dictate what another person do or does not do with her body. Don't pretend you can possibly have equal rights under an unequal situation.
A lot of people say this. All I know is that a child cost a fortune to raise and child supports rarely cover half of it.Remember I know (knew) this girl personally, so have a bit more insight into this story then some article in the tabloids. She see's her kids as a lottery ticket, which is disgusting.
I've really had enough of you people. You are so filled with rage and hatred towards men that you have completely ignored all my arguments and explanations, and when I use analogies you tell me that I "cannot comprehend the idea of not attacking women". If you really aren't a misandrist you've done a great job of hiding it in this thread. You might want to take a step back and realize that men are human beings and not just your "vile oppressors". You say I'm strawmanning, but your response to EVERY SINGLE THING is "LOL YOU HATE WOMEN".
I'm done with your venom, your stupidity, and your insults. Right now, from a legal standpoint, women have all the power and no responsibility. Men have all the responsibility and no power. Enjoy it while it lasts.
I'm not talking about abortion. How was that not clear here? I'm talking about the lack of responsibility put on women when it comes to pre-pregnancy.
Feminists bring nothing good to women or men. They aren't out for equality, they want the exact same 1940's mindset but in womens favor.
They bring only shame over the gender and the society we've built. It's not typical to bash them, it's necessary and for very good reasons.
I'm not against abortion or the woman's right to have one. I'm against the stupidity that got her pregnant in the first place and the contradictions that follows.So what's your problem with allowing women to exercise control over their own body and get abortions? After all that absolves men of whatever, if any, financial burdens of raising the child.
Didn't you read my post at all?
Says the person talking about punching pregnant women in the belly and poisoning them.
Hard to arrive at a different conclusion when all you keep saying is you want to force a woman to carry your stuff inside her. Just because.You say I'm strawmanning, but your response to EVERY SINGLE THING is "LOL YOU HATE WOMEN".
So you're not talking about abortion, you just think it's not taking responsibility. I read your post, did you read mine? My point is that having an abortion is a responsible course of action that works out the best for everyone in an unintended pregnancy.
Yes yes typical anti-feminist rants. How about you actually give some examples of real feminists trying to do that? Last I checked none of us were campaigning for men be forced to stay at home to be househusbands.Feminists bring nothing good to women or men. They aren't out for equality, they want the exact same 1940's mindset but in womens favor.
They bring only shame over the gender and the society we've built. It's not typical to bash them, it's necessary and for very good reasons.
---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 07:30 AM ----------
Do you not understand that I'm pointing out your analogy is critically flawed? Because it involves illegal acts of assault? Fallacy of false analogy, not a hard concept.
Last edited by semaphore; 2012-12-05 at 07:31 AM.
I'm sure that I'm not the first person to say this but there are just to many pages to read through, so here it goes. I don't necessarily agree that it's right to make a woman carry to term if they don't want to, but I still think they should if the father wants to take on the sole responsibility of raising the child.
On the topic I think that a person should be able to sign away ALL and ANY obligations up until abortion is no longer possible, be it mother or father. If a guy isn't ready to be a father he shouldn't get stuck with it just because it's what the woman wants and vice versa. I know, I know, use a condom, take the pill, get snipped. That's all fine and dandy but all of those are NOT 100%. Condoms break, pills can fail and a vasectomy can reverse itself (rare, but it does happen)
I'm not trying to dictate it. Nor am I campaigning for equal rights, infact, I'm quite against equal rights because men and woman are not equal. Feminists onyl want equality when it suits them, yet demand special treatment when it doesn't. Personally, I agree with the latter, which is why I do lean more towards the woman's right to chose rather than the father's rights as a genetic donor.
However, I do believe absolute control is a dangerous thing. You can't adopt a baby overnight, and nor (imo) should you be able to abort one. I'm not saying the women should be prevented from doing so, but I do believe there should be counseling and consultation, especially if she's a 'repeat customer'. To what end would the counseling result? I honestly can't say.
Well I suppose it depends where you live (country). In my country, there's A LOT of benefits. When my daughter was born, I applied for what's called a working for families tax credit, which is essentially a portion of my tax is returned to me monthly to help with child costs. The higher your income, the lower (dollar) amount you receive, eventually reducing to zero.A lot of people say this. All I know is that a child cost a fortune to raise and child supports rarely cover half of it.
When my wife returned to work, our tax credit vanished, but we were able to apply for childcare subsidies. She works 30 hours a week, and after paying for childcare I think we're about $50 a week better off than when she was a stay home Mum. If we pumped out another child, our tax credit would have more than doubled. If we weren't married, and lived apart, the amount of benefits she could claim is staggering... and that's before child support.
Bit of a long winded response I know, but it's something that gets on my nerves here. Staying at home, on the benefit, pumping out kids pays off, especially if you're an "unskilled" worker shall we say. The girl I mentioned above, was earning six figures (2K + per week) from the combination of child support of benefits.
Really, because as a full grown adult I spend less than $200 a month on food and less than $300 a year on clothing which still equates to less than 3k a year.
I fully understand it takes more to raise a infant due to diapers and other crap that must be provided for a baby but hey shouldn't your financial contribution to the child be equal to mine.
And you cannot burden the father with the medical fee's the child incurs either
"because you are the one who opted to seek the medical attention in the first place" (not to mention majority of the time it's not actually required) Nor would it ever be required if you had chosen abortion and men are sick and tired of being saddled with the repercussions of your mistakes.
Of course I myself don't have to worry about it as the first thing I did when I hit adulthood was to go and get a vasectomy, and should I ever actually find a women I love and settle down with her I've always got the option to have the Vasectomy reversed, I did so because I am a responsible person living in a world full of people of both genders who refuse to take responsibility for their actions and always try to pin that responsibility on someone else.
If a woman says she's on the pill, but then she isn't.. or cases alike, then father should definately be able to force abortion..
You are not pointing out that my analogy is "critically flawed". You are attacking me and insulting me, which is just pathetic and despicable. You can't even grasp the concept of civil discussion.Do you not understand that I'm pointing out your analogy is critically flawed? Because it involves illegal acts of assault?
Since your reaction to analogies is not unlike that of a rabid dog, I will simply ask you this: You have said over and over that getting an abortion is "the responsible thing to do" and that it is "best for everyone". Well, what if the mother doesn't want an abortion? If she wants to keep the fetus, to let it grow into a baby, would the "responsible thing to do" be forcing her to get an abortion against her will? I certainly don't think so, in fact I find the idea repulsive. You see, to a parent who wants to keep the fetus, it is more than just a fetus. It is their future child. And the idea that someone, anyone, would have no right to stop someone who wanted to kill their future child is just awful.
Maybe if you can't manage to make a decent analogy you should just not make them.
Personally I think the only option a man needs in this instance is the ability to say he doesn't want the child, otherwise it should be 100% upto the woman. Therefor if the woman is raped the rapist(since in most instances I presume the rapist doesn't want a child and if for some reason he does then it falls to the woman to make the decision by the very definition of the only option I've given) has no control anyway and from any other perspective it's completely the woman's prerogative.
This way the man still gets a say if he doesn't want a child and from every other possible avenue the woman has complete control.
I think it's important to mention that I'm a man so I guess some issues that women face when making this choice will be beyond me at this time since I haven't put a large amount of thought into it.