Syrian Government Ready To Use Chemical Weapons

[Rukentuts]

I'm certainly not advocating another ten year war followed by ten years of re-building infrastructure. I think we could do this in a manner very similar to Libya, although that's speculation on my part.

Just blow him away from the sky or send in a small team of special forces to bring him out.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 10:15 PM ----------

What's the cutoff point? Do we allow a modern day holocaust to happen and not intervene because its another country? I think chemical weapon use is a decent cutoff point for me.

Any use of a WMD should be a red line.

[Grizzly Willy]

News just in, Iraq has WMD's and are killing babies in Kuwait, we better go invade them! - 10 years ago. All a lie.

STOP FALLING FOR THE FUCKING LIES PEOPLE!!!!!!!

If you can show that this is a lie, go ahead.

[Spectral]

What's the cutoff point? Do we allow a modern day holocaust to happen and not intervene because its another country? I think chemical weapon use is a decent cutoff point for me.

The cutoff point, for me, is when there's something in it for us, or if we're legally obligated to do something about it. If there's a UN or NATO action, I'm sure we'll participate and do much more than our fair share. If there's not, it's not our problem. If that means some really awful things happen in other countries because of inaction at the UN, I'm fine with that. It is not the United States's problem to fix things in other countries, and we're not very good at it anyway.

[Zechs-cenarius]

Just blow him away from the sky or send in a small team of special forces to bring him out.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 10:15 PM ----------

Any use of a WMD should be a red line.

Bleh all those anti american people do not deserve US help. Since they were so hell bent about america's downfall they should not be afforded any help from the american people. They should burn in the fire THEY created. Everyone is always upset that America plays world police and now that the US isn't they are upset? Have some pride and handle it on their own rather than grovel like pathetic dogs and expect to be bailed out now they are in for some shit.

[Spectral]

Any use of a WMD should be a red line.

Why? The Holocaust wasn't done with WMDs. The Rape of Nanking wasn't done with WMDs.

[Rukentuts]

Why? The Holocaust wasn't done with WMDs. The Rape of Nanking wasn't done with WMDs.

Because any government cavalier enough to use WMDs on its own citizens is a global threat. This is one reason NATO is parking Patriots in Turkey.

[Spectral]

Because any government cavalier enough to use WMDs on its own citizens is a global threat.

That seems really questionable. Iraq being the obvious counterexample, where there was no plausible global threat posed in the decade following the Gulf War.

[Rimrot]

I say we stay the hell out of it, let them kill each other off and let the rest of the world deal with countries who are willing to gas and kill their own countrymen. Prior to the first gulf war it was proven that Saddam had gassed the Kurds and the US got shit on by everyone for wanting to stomp that fucker and his psycho kids out of existence. Oh, I know we went in to "save" that pissant little country and all the other douche towel heads who hate the US, but it's high time we tell them to fuck off, fight our own wars and leave us alone.

Infracted: Please refrain from making racist comments or nation bashing.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

The cutoff point, for me, is when there's something in it for us, or if we're legally obligated to do something about it. If there's a UN or NATO action, I'm sure we'll participate and do much more than our fair share. If there's not, it's not our problem. If that means some really awful things happen in other countries because of inaction at the UN, I'm fine with that. It is not the United States's problem to fix things in other countries, and we're not very good at it anyway.

This position reminds me of the bystander effect.

[Spectral]

This position reminds me of the bystander effect.

Bystanders don't typically incur substantial costs by breaking their trance.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Bystanders don't typically incur substantial costs by breaking their trance.

Doesn't change the fact that you're basically saying "The UN will do something about it."

[Landin55]

Oh for fuck sake please dont... yet another fully fledged war will happen and everyone will have to get involved. Hopefully the UN steps in and fixes this problem.

UN? Fix a problem? heh.

[Flaks]

I don't know what kind of tinfoil I use, but tell me where are the WMDs in Iraq? U.S. officials told NBC News that Syria is preparing chemical weapons. To me it sounds like the same lies that were used to get people to approve the war in Iraq.

The difference here is that we have a shit ton more reason ALREADY and OUTSIDE OF CHEMICAL WEAPON CLAIMS to invade Syria.

[Spectral]

Doesn't change the fact that you're basically saying "The UN will do something about it."

No, I'm not saying they'll do something about it. I'm saying that I have no desire to spend our resources on dealing with a problem that doesn't tangibly effect us. This is very different from the bystander effect; I'm not assuming someone will do something about it, I'm saying that I actively don't want us to do anything about it.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

No, I'm not saying they'll do something about it. I'm saying that I have no desire to spend our resources on dealing with a problem that doesn't tangibly effect us. This is very different from the bystander effect; I'm not assuming someone will do something about it, I'm saying that I actively don't want us to do anything about it.

That's even worse, at least in this context.

[Spectral]

That's even worse, at least in this context.

That's certainly one opinion, and I can see why you'd hold it. I'm not asserting that everyone must find my position morally acceptable, I'm just saying it's not actually particularly akin to the bystander effect. Agree?

[Vuljatar]

The cutoff point, for me, is when there's something in it for us, or if we're legally obligated to do something about it. If there's a UN or NATO action, I'm sure we'll participate and do much more than our fair share. If there's not, it's not our problem. If that means some really awful things happen in other countries because of inaction at the UN, I'm fine with that. It is not the United States's problem to fix things in other countries, and we're not very good at it anyway.

This.

This sort of thing is supposed to be the U.N.'s responsibility. We've been policing the world for far too long and it hasn't earned us any fans, only global resentment. We throw away trillions of dollars to help people that in most cases don't even want our help, when those trillions could help people at home--you know, the people who actually pay the taxes, the taxes that are supposed to be used to help them.

[niki]

The difference here is that we have a shit ton more reason ALREADY and OUTSIDE OF CHEMICAL WEAPON CLAIMS to invade Syria.

Such as? Finishing the job of the "rebels" that the US has been funding?

[Wiyld]

This.

This sort of thing is supposed to be the U.N.'s responsibility. We've been policing the world for far too long and it hasn't earned us any fans, only global resentment. We throw away trillions of dollars to help people that in most cases don't even want our help, when those trillions could help people at home--you know, the people who actually pay the taxes, the taxes that are supposed to be used to help them.

The problem is, the US doesn't WANT the UN to do anything, not really.

Heres the issue. If the UN asserts itself, and is wildly successful without it being VERY clear that it was basically US money and material dressed in UN colors, then it gains more legitimacy. Just listen to the people here in the thread, who actually takes the UN seriously until the US steps in and says 'yeah we agree with the UN'. Even if its just the US rep to the UN saying it, the fact is the UN simply doesn't have a whole ton of sway without US inclusion in its threats. Now, if the UN begins to prove itself without such significant US backing, well then the US now has a potential rival. Those of us in the Us have never been big fans of world government, which is what the UN is in a limited sense. We never backed the League of Nations, a move that led to its demise. We make a big show of liking the idea of the UN but ultimately we don't feel its in our best interest to see a really strong UN.



More on topic: Syria is a mess, but its a predictable mess. How long do the governments in that part of the world typically last? And how are most of their revolutions conducted? This isn't a new deal, even if they use chemical weapons on the rebel forces, whats the difference between that and sending drugged up kids with ak-47's and machetes to conduce ethnic cleansing? Both of those things has, and still is, happening.

The fact is, chemical weapons are scarey to us because we can't defend against them the way we can a drugged up kid with a knife and a gun. We in the Western world hear about the kid with a knife and gun and dismiss it as a non issue, it isn't a threat to us so we don't care. One guy with a vial of the right chemical can kill a whole lot of us without us even knowing its coming. Hence, we're afraid of it and assume we MUST intervene anytime they are used. The fact that Assad 'might' use them in Syria doesn't mean a damn thing to us, it just scares us so we feel the need to make an example of the Assad regime. I also think there is a fear of escalation. Once a 'rogue' nation uses them and is not met with significant reprisals a whole lot of folks believe that would be a green light to start producing and using chemical weapons, and possibly other WMD's, commonly. Basically, WMD is the new communism. Call it the WMD scare of the 2000's.

[sizzlinsauce]

Let another country deal with it. Everyone wants to get all huffy about US intervention so maybe the other first world countries will step in to prevent a genocide. HAHAHA

that kind of thought process gets the human race as it stands, no where. Theres a better solution that i hope we can get to before this happens.