There are currently more Retribution Paladins than Rogues.

[Paranoid Android]

So is ret FOTM? If so I may need to put in a transfer request and break my little kitteh (was human, had a petting accident with a Worgen) out of retirement. Screw having my brilliance hidden behind a general assumption it's because my class is OP. That won't do at all

A hi to any passing ex guildies/friends from Twilight's

No you missed my point and can't read I guess or I needed to list other classes, my fault. I said "people jump toons" meaning people are jumping rogues for all classes like warrior, locks or again FOTM. Like Tyrven posted that rogues had it pretty good in cata and again if I am right they were still not played that much but amazingly when Legendaries came out they jumped because alot people just want to play the easiest faceroll class.

[mercutiouk]

most complaints are geared toward PVP, as virtually all rogues feel shadowstep should be baseline. Not having it makes our mobility just too poor to tolerate. Another quality of life change people would like to see is combo points independent of the target(similar to monk chi or paladin holy power)....this we've asked for forever and don't expect any time soon.

The other important ones pertain to the poor design of our talent tree. tier 1 contains 1 useless talent, 1 bugged talent that's only good for leveling anyway and 1 talent that's a dps increase in pve and pvp. wow, so many options.

tier 4 requires us to choose between preparation and shadowstep or the uselss burst of speed. if shadowstep were baseline we'd open up a spot for something new or be able to take prep without feeling like we're making a mobility mistake.

And the last point i'll mention is the awkward situation with our 4 piece pvp set bonus and crippling poison. Crip is no 50% snare, however, when shivved it's 70%. Previously, we had the talent Deadly Brew that allowed us to use our then 70% Crippling poison as well as another poison...to make up for eliminating this, we were given a 4 piece set bonus that says our non-lethal poisons also apply crippling poison. "oh yay! it's deadly brew again, right?" Wrong. The set applies the 50% version(which just isn't enough), so many rogues are STILL forced to run crippling as their non lethal just so we can Shiv it's more effective version. Quality of life changes my friend.

Hmmm, fair play if they've taken a lot of our toys away. (Edit... Dammit! I mean your toys, old habit, sorry )
Pallies have been given quite a new lease of life with the talent changes. There's a LOT of gap closing going on there. We still have really neutered damage output (and totally overpowered burst if allowed to go to town with CD's popped) but aye, rogue mobility losses are fair game for complaint imo.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 11:59 AM ----------

No you missed my point and can't read I guess or I needed to list other classes, my fault. I said "people jump toons" meaning people are jumping rogues for all classes like warrior, locks or again FOTM. Like Tyrven posted that rogues had it pretty good in cata and again if I am right they were still not played that much but amazingly when Legendaries came out they jumped because alot people just want to play the easiest faceroll class.

Ahh, ok. I did miss your point there then, my bad. We at least agree that FOTM jumpers need to treated with contempt.

[stuntz]

So? What's that supposed to tell anybody? What sort of value judgement is that? Should it be the other way around? Why?

Right now, there are more blue cars in the world than red cars. Yeah.

I'm loving all these paladins coming to rogue forums throwing hissy fits and going super defensive.

The comment made by GC was merely a comparison that there's more people playing a single *spec* of a class than another class in its ENTIRETY. Nothing about ret's being OP or rogues being UP or any other nonsensical bullshit you're trying to infer from it. Just a statement regarding class population.

The reasons for it have been made clear since mop beta, the feedback is all still there to read. That said, if you're so quick to jump to conclusions upon half reading a single line from GC, then I doubt you'd bother to read what concerns rogues actually have.

[mercutiouk]

I'm loving all these paladins coming to rogue forums throwing hissy fits and going super defensive.

The comment made by GC was merely a comparison that there's more people playing a single *spec* of a class than another class in its ENTIRETY. Nothing about ret's being OP or rogues being UP or any other nonsensical bullshit you're trying to infer from it. Just a statement regarding class population.

The reasons for it have been made clear since mop beta, the feedback is all still there to read. That said, if you're so quick to jump to conclusions upon half reading a single line from GC, then I doubt you'd bother to read what concerns rogues actually have.

I think GC WAS implying that rogues need some love with the comparison to be fair. Agreed with my (now) fellow defendy Ret's being drama queens though. Highly amusing

[Ryme]

Damage is all that matters.

Not in the realm of fun, which is primarily what people are complaining about.

[stuntz]

I think GC WAS implying that rogues need some love with the comparison to be fair. Agreed with my (now) fellow defendy Ret's being drama queens though. Highly amusing

The question that it came from was (jokingly): "Why all the paladin hate?"

GC's response was that: "The paladin thing is really funny. I honestly think it's just because there's so many freaking paladins out there. At times, probably right now, there's more ret paladins than rogues".

I think mmo-c is partly to blame for taking his statement out of context on the front page. His comment was regarding perceived paladin hate and subsequent paladin forum QQ compared to other classes, and his stance is more that there are so many paladins that there's a higher frequency of discussion regarding them than other classes. He took a spec vs class population comparison for that, which is currently being blown massively out of proportion here.

[mercutiouk]

The question that it came from was (jokingly): "Why all the paladin hate?"

GC's response was that: "The paladin thing is really funny. I honestly think it's just because there's so many freaking paladins out there. At times, probably right now, there's more ret paladins than rogues".

I think mmo-c is partly to blame for taking his statement out of context on the front page. His comment was regarding perceived paladin hate and subsequent paladin forum QQ compared to other classes, and his stance is more than there are so many paladins that there's a higher frequency of discussion regarding them than other classes. He took a spec vs class population comparison for that, which is currently being blown massively out of proportion here.

Ok, I'll slink off quietly at this point then.

[Sturmbringe]

No 1 here is saying ROGUES ARE BAD BUFF US God... we just want some nice new changes since there isn't much changed since vanilla.

1. Rogues are bad ın PvP, and yes they do need buffs, especially mobility buffs but also some damage buffs.

2. I don't want any changes to Rogue playstyle. I just want my PvP mobility and damage back. I don't get it how plate wearing classes like Warrior, have got 3X Rogue mobility and more stuns than we do. Even Loladins got gap closers. We don't.

[Msi]

1. Rogues are bad ın PvP, and yes they do need buffs, especially mobility buffs but also some damage buffs.

2. I don't want any changes to Rogue playstyle. I just want my PvP mobility and damage back. I don't get it how plate wearing classes like Warrior, have got 3X Rogue mobility and more stuns than we do. Even Loladins got gap closers. We don't.

Yes rogues are fine in PvE, but PvP uhmm yeah... some tweaks and we are fine again.

[jonoy8]

i don't understand the statement

paladins have always been a popular class so naturally you would expect alot of them

[Deleted]

Just increase all rogues spells by +40%damage and we all be happy, no?

[Basemath]

Its more about people are playing a spec more than a class[/QUOTE]
Not sure if you play a Ret Paladin yourself, but the statement that "There are currently more Retribution Paladins than Rogues" sounds like a stab at Paladins too.

[Deleted]

Is this a troll thread? I cannot believe rogues are crying. Do you guys even play your rogues?


http://imgur.com/dp2Hf

oh looky here. another person holding up a DPS chart as proof that rogues are fine...
Prepare to die in flames ...

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 02:33 PM ----------

Oh sorry, let me link you something you may actually believe.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ution_Paladin/



Don't dismiss something because you simply want a buff. My previous comment stands.

and another one...

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 02:40 PM ----------

We just finished up a tier of raids where every prick in the game rolled a rogue if they didnt have one just to get their legendary daggers. All 3 specs did a ton of dmg on all fights in DS besides maybe 1. All of a sudden MoP hits and they loose their daggers and on top of that they aren't OP atm and every band wagon fotm rogue jumped ship.

yeah every prick in the game rolled rogue... I guess there are next to no pricks then, because rogue went into MoP still as one of the least played classes, and it even went downhill from there.

[jonoy8]

Oh sorry, let me link you something you may actually believe.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ution_Paladin/

Don't dismiss something because you simply want a buff. My previous comment stands.

why are you linking pve charts

basically all the complaints about rogues are from a pvp perspective.

for someone who plays a rogue it's obvious you don't pvp since you seem to think rogue are complaining about pve damage

[ipaq]

Oh I wonder why GC....

BUT there is hope:
Patch 5.2 will bring more talent changes than Patch 5.1, but they will mostly be number tweaks. Rogue talents were mentioned as something that needs to be looked at.

Stop complaining and roll 1 of each class.

That way you'll always have access to the FOTM class required fluff your epeen and stop you from posting such pablum threads.

[Deleted]

So? What's that supposed to tell anybody? What sort of value judgement is that? Should it be the other way around? Why?

Right now, there are more blue cars in the world than red cars. Yeah.

The fact that 1 spec of a class is more represented than a complete class (that consists out of 3 specs) says something about popularity...
In a perfect world, where all classes are equally fun to play you would see about 9-10% representation for a given class (DK and monk scew the results a bit here, admitted). In that same perfect world, about 3% representation is feasible for a given spec.

Now I know this is not a perfect world, but seeing a difference of 13-14% vs 2-3% (don't know exactly the numbers here, so you can say I am pulling numbers out of my ass, but I think i am in the right ballpark here) would ring an alarm bell on my side.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 03:00 PM ----------

Yes rogues are fine in PvE, but PvP uhmm yeah... some tweaks and we are fine again.

They are not fine in PvE either. Damage wise, yes, but definitely not gameplay wise atm.

[Deleted]

The funny thing is Rets aren't even that strong right now.

I'm giggling at all the people on here who were saying Rogues would turn out fine during beta. Lowest arena representation equaled only by a grossly underpowered class that has only existed for a few months. Those people are conspicuous in their absence.

Looks like it will be 5.2 at the minimum before we see anything done to the class and even then I'm sure it will be the odd tweak like Burst of Fail reduced to 40 energy.

[Clarke]

Ofcourse theres going to be more Rets... its one of the only classes that can preform all 3 roles in PvE, and the most popular role is DPS so please do the math. Im almost flabbergased that more people choose Rets over rogues.. Rets have wings and thats about our only time were a threat, atleast you guys have stuns,blinds,disarms etc, and you guys also have some nice burst on your SD. so i'm not saying rogues don't need a buff but don't throw ret completley under the bus, the spec needs a buff just as much if not more.

[moremana]

First of all, you make a thread about retri paladins being more than rogues with no proof to support that and then you also speak about a totally different topic inside (the rogue talents that is). Do you know what a title is? lol...

You did read the front page? or trolling maybe?

[iLeon]

Rets are Blizzard's favourite child. Following vanilla and ever since (2006), they have been the most OP spec in the history of the game with the possible exception of WOTLK DK's. In fact, Rets qualify as one of the most OP specs in the history of MMORG's in general. Key abilities include:

-The longest stun in the World of Warcraft ever.
-Immunity to being kited.
-Bubble that make one completely immune to damage while still being able to attack.
-Abilities such as Lay On Hands that instantly restore one's health to 100%.
-Infinite Mana.
-Ability to use hearthstone (RECALL) while being bubbled.
-Excellent heals while dishing out excellent DPS with no penalty on their DPS.
-Excellent DPS cooldowns completely unsuited for a DPS/Healing hybrid such as Ret.
-Immunity to being griefed or ganked while out in the world questing. If you go one-to-one with a Ret you will lose, if you go two versus one against a Ret you will still lose, and if you try to go three to one against a Ret they will just bubble and hearthstone.
-Excellent in soloing Raid content.
-Fastest mount speed in the World of Warcraft.

Recent bonus abilities:

-Pet
-DOTS
-Snare
-An ability similar to Rogue ability Sprint
-Ranged execute
-Several Ranged DPS abilities

------------------------------------->With all the above in mind, it is not hard to see why there are more Rets than Rogues.

Your main must be a Paladin.