Resto Druids and Spirit.

[Ashrr]

My alt raid started doing the MSV heroics tonight...

I see where you're coming from but I'd like to add a bit to it. It is important note the huge difference between Feng or Elegon on farm and say, the last phase of Protectors of the Endless Heroic where the dots tick for enormous amounts. I know you wrote about it but IMO it is something that needs to be emphasized when making a decision about Spirit levels.

In the end, adding 2K Spirit to 8000 to end up with 10K isn't exactly the worst decision in the world, but for any serious healer, thinking along the lines of "I'm going oom and therefore need more Spirit" isn't the way to go.

It's far more beneficial to think "Okay, I need a lot of throughput towards the end of the fight, but I can also conserve a lot for the first 75%. Would it be better if I stacked Intellect and healed light damage with my cheaper spells or do I really need more Spirit to last the fight?"

What I'm trying to say is that it is better for a healer to develop a sense for analyzing damage patterns rather than stacking a certain stat as a safety net. For example: On one of our early Garalon HC attempts, all the healers went oom quickly, and there was talk about switching to Spirit Flasks since we were casting constantly from start to finish. Then we realized that it was more efficient to watch the Pheromone levels closely before busting out expensive heals. When kiters switch and you don't have a Crush soon, you have quite a bit of time to heal up with Wild Growth and such before the Pheromone levels ramp up again.

[Dracodraco]

I see where you're coming from but I'd like to add a bit to it. It is important note the huge difference between Feng or Elegon on farm and say, the last phase of Protectors of the Endless Heroic where the dots tick for enormous amounts. I know you wrote about it but IMO it is something that needs to be emphasized when making a decision about Spirit levels.

In the end, adding 2K Spirit to 8000 to end up with 10K isn't exactly the worst decision in the world, but for any serious healer, thinking along the lines of "I'm going oom and therefore need more Spirit" isn't the way to go.

It's far more beneficial to think "Okay, I need a lot of throughput towards the end of the fight, but I can also conserve a lot for the first 75%. Would it be better if I stacked Intellect and healed light damage with my cheaper spells or do I really need more Spirit to last the fight?"

What I'm trying to say is that it is better for a healer to develop a sense for analyzing damage patterns rather than stacking a certain stat as a safety net. For example: On one of our early Garalon HC attempts, all the healers went oom quickly, and there was talk about switching to Spirit Flasks since we were casting constantly from start to finish. Then we realized that it was more efficient to watch the Pheromone levels closely before busting out expensive heals. When kiters switch and you don't have a Crush soon, you have quite a bit of time to heal up with Wild Growth and such before the Pheromone levels ramp up again.

That's entirely true - but you also have to remember that you need to consider how much the int will actually help you. You're a hot/blanket healer, which means that you are responsible for keeping the raid "stable", while the other healer(s) are responsible for topping the raid off. You can do the job, sure, but you'll never be as efficient as it as a priest or a paladin will, with their instant healing spell toolbox.

It comes down to amount of damage potentially healed again - say, in last phase of protectors, you can keep 5 rejuvs rolling, ticking 6 times each for 15K with int-focus. That's 30*15=450K healing per tick.
Now, say you lose out on the int, but instead gain enough spirit to keep 6 rejuvs rolling, hitting for 14K each time. 36*14=504K healing.
Along with this, it means another raid member is kept "stable", meaning that less direct heals from the other healers has to go in to keeping that person alive.

Once again, this is a scenario where you have enough output to keep everyone alive - but it's also worth it to note, that int will not make a "huge" dent in the amount that your heals gain in effectivity. Using my own resto druid, I have 13767 rejuv ticks completly unbuffed, with 16639 intellect. With my alchemist's flask, I have 16995 int and my rejuv ticks for 13908 per. That's 356 int for a 141 increase in healing per rejuv tick. In a spirit vs int comparison, that means that you have to sacrifise 640 spirit in order to gain a 1% increase in the healing your rejuv does. On the other hand, this amount of spirit roughly comes out to 360 Mp5 (or approx an rejuvenation every 2 minutes).
So basicly, for it to "overall" be worth it, from a purely mathematical point of view, you need 100 ticks of rejuv every 2 minutes in order to gain the same output with int as with mana regen, or 17 rejuvenations every 2 minutes.
This is completly disregarding things like overhealing and global cooldowns and such though, just crude napkin math to show where I'm comming from.

[m4rtini]

So basicly, for it to "overall" be worth it, from a purely mathematical point of view, you need 100 ticks of rejuv every 2 minutes in order to gain the same output with int as with mana regen, or 17 rejuvenations every 2 minutes.
This is completly disregarding things like overhealing and global cooldowns and such though, just crude napkin math to show where I'm comming from.

that's not a good comparison to be fair. the extra rejuv you get is pretty much all you would get from the extra spirit, but the extra intelect would boost every spell, not just the rejuv ticks.

[Dracodraco]

that's not a good comparison to be fair. the extra rejuv you get is pretty much all you would get from the extra spirit, but the extra intelect would boost every spell, not just the rejuv ticks.

I know - but on the other hand, what are the chances that the extra int will overheal instead of add to the healed amount? When our healing touches approaches 200K Crits, the chance that a single one of those will overheal for 75K is *huge*. Our rejuvs overheal for tons because they sit on targets that are sniped by paladins, shamans and priests.
I know it's a very crude comparison, but I don't think it's far off from the truth, due to overhealing.

[volkvin]

Hello all!

I have read many guides about what to do when it comes too Spirit. From the guide on here, The WoW forums and even EJ itself. But I myself have 9260 spirit and 11,226 Combat Regen currently and not even with the "Scroll of Revered Ancestors" and Innervate...it just feels like I don't have the mana regen I need. Should it be higher? How much is too much?

Now I am not spamming rejuv and regrowth every second by any means, but as some other druids have said...Our spells cost ALOT of mana compared to other classes.

Rejuvination - 9,600 Mana (Without the 2 peice which I don't have)
Wild Growth - 13,740 Mana
Regrowth - 17,820 Mana (For when you need to heal someone in an "ohshit" moment and cant wait for a clearcasting proc)
Tranquility - 16,260 Mana

Etc and the list goes on. I just feel a bit lost, like no matter how much spirit I end up having, It is just never enough.

7300 unbuffed, no spirit enchants, no spirit food, no spirit flask, 2pc set. \\
i find i do use less mana due to SotF and using WG once in 15 secs. Other than that no regrowth and healing like in wrath

[m4rtini]

I know - but on the other hand, what are the chances that the extra int will overheal instead of add to the healed amount? When our healing touches approaches 200K Crits, the chance that a single one of those will overheal for 75K is *huge*. Our rejuvs overheal for tons because they sit on targets that are sniped by paladins, shamans and priests.
I know it's a very crude comparison, but I don't think it's far off from the truth, due to overhealing.

That is true. almost everything you throw out on low-dmg periods is gonna be mostly overheal. But my thought on the matter is, to compensate for the lack of good burst healing in our toolset. i go for a low amount of spirit, so that in those periods when the burst is required. my heals will hit harder with low overheal, and in low dmg periods i just hold back and dont waste mana on rejuves that will get sniped. let WG+SM do most of the work there. WG hits harder in the start, so the last ticks that get sniped will be the weaker ones.

in the end, both options will be pretty equal, if not we wouldnt see so many people achieving good results with sprit low\heavy setups. Boss fight, raid composition and playstyle will probably have a bigger impact, than what mathematically is optimal.

[Ashrr]

That's entirely true - but you also have to remember that you need to consider how much the int will actually help you. You're a hot/blanket healer, which means that you are responsible for keeping the raid "stable", while the other healer(s) are responsible for topping the raid off. You can do the job, sure, but you'll never be as efficient as it as a priest or a paladin will, with their instant healing spell toolbox.

I'm actually not blanketing much at all, at least from a 10m HC perspective. Garalon was the only fight that was the exception. Since Will HC was a 2 healer fight, I was tank healing and using Wild Growth for the raid which was mostly enough, not as much RJ as Garalon.

Of course, things maybe very different in other guilds or in 25 man for instance, but the style of healing this tier for me has been a far cry from tier 13, notably Spine and Madness HC where I was blanketing like 90% of the time. This drives me towards stronger heals, rather than more of them.

I do agree our strengths lie in buffer / blanket healing but the encounters I've faced so far don't seem to require much of this, one of the reasons I think other healers are far better this tier, barring a few fights.

[Dracodraco]

I'm actually not blanketing much at all, at least from a 10m HC perspective. Garalon was the only fight that was the exception. Since Will HC was a 2 healer fight, I was tank healing and using Wild Growth for the raid which was mostly enough, not as much RJ as Garalon.

Of course, things maybe very different in other guilds or in 25 man for instance, but the style of healing this tier for me has been a far cry from tier 13, notably Spine and Madness HC where I was blanketing like 90% of the time. This drives me towards stronger heals, rather than more of them.

I do agree our strengths lie in buffer / blanket healing but the encounters I've faced so far don't seem to require much of this, one of the reasons I think other healers are far better this tier, barring a few fights.

It depends what you mean by "Blanketing", I guess. On Sha of fear normal, I blanket with rejuvs on my five targets and just regrowth on the platforms, due to infinite mana and the sudden bursts of damage. Any fight that includes an infinite mana buff (stone guards, garajal, sha) benefits greatly from rolling rejuv on as many targets as possible.

For other fights, you're right - blanketing is quite "meh". There's the exceptions to the rules, like predictable burst damage (quakes/arcane vortexes on feng, elegon explosions, vizier FnV's), but every other healer will be trying to burn their mana there, too, to top off the raid. So yea, unless we get more of the garalon-style fights, and to an extent, Will HC, druids are gonna be quite badly behind.

[Ashrr]

It depends what you mean by "Blanketing", I guess. On Sha of fear normal, I blanket with rejuvs on my five targets and just regrowth on the platforms, due to infinite mana and the sudden bursts of damage. Any fight that includes an infinite mana buff (stone guards, garajal, sha) benefits greatly from rolling rejuv on as many targets as possible.

When I say blanketing, think Madness HC stack phase where I literally tried to get an RJ up on as many people as possible (10m, not 25), often in combination with Tree of Life and Jaws of Defeat, weaving Wild Growths and Swiftmends in between. When an RJ on someone expired, I refreshed it too. The stack phases lasted long enough for our RJs to actually do their work and with ample damage for them not to overheal. More importantly, it didn't really hurt my mana so much. I only used this style of healing on Garalon HC this tier, when Pheromones were high.

Feng / Elegon / Vizier burst damage is different because the abilities don't last as long (or instant in Elegon's case). More often than not, rotating CDs like Tranq and Healing Tide cover these quickly so blanketing with RJ would mostly overheal. Things are possibly very different when you're underhealing in a 25 man but we don't do much of that in my 10m raid.