Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Talen]

Except the way PvP realms have been has NOT been the correct and intended experience.

Irrelevant. Blizzard had six years to correct the situation. Instead it let PvP degenerate and a new PvP-lite culture many players liked became firmly established.

Plus, you're incorrectly assuming the current state is "bad" by equating it to a burned steak. You need to equate it to something you just don't like, not that nobody would like. Hence my comparison of steaks and salads; I'm not going to claim preferring salad is "wrong", I just want the vegans to leave me alone so I can enjoy my steak in peace.

My example was as good as yous. You are equating the complaints as coming from players who don't want to PvP at all. From what I can see, many of the complaints is not that there is PvP; its that the nature of the PvP has changed.

That "legitimate grievance" falls short when it was never intended.

Intended or not, its a culture Blizzard allowed to develop and even encourage in many ways. It's an issue that could have been fixed years ago. Should have been fixed years ago IMO.

This is simply untrue, since Blizzard has always provided PvE servers specifically for those who don't want to deal with the harsh PvP realm policies. Players who don't want that experience have a place to enjoy the game, their way. Which is fine.

The culture on many PvP realms was that you did enagge in PvP, you did get attacked and you were always in danger. You also had the lack of griefing that some players engage in, the behaviour that turns many players away from PvP. Asking for players to give up that danger, that excitement because Blizzard decided that World PvP is somehow special enough that it doesn't deserve to be covered by the rest of its polices and that griefing is to be encouraged, and that mass disruption to guilds and players game experience is acceptable misses the point.

Should PvP be encouraged? es. Should griefing, in all its forms, be encouraged? No.

What you're describing does build community. I've seen guilds emerge that exist primarily to attack gankers and protect lowbies. I've been part of large raids for that same purpose, myself.

And other guilds have gotten so fed up with the repeated calls for help that they've stopped responding. Other players I know are levelling alts by taking them through dungeons and escaping the world entirely.

The heavy type of PvP is not attractive to many players. The attitude displayed by many players is not attractive. The huge barrier to entry is not attractive. Ultimately, this type of behaviour is highly corrosive and detrimental especially in games with a primary focus on PvE.

EJL

[Detheavn]

Irrelevant. Blizzard had six years to correct the situation. Instead it let PvP degenerate and a new PvP-lite culture many players liked became firmly established.

Correct what? Their policy they have upheld since 8 years ago?

Internet Archive Wayback Machine page of World of Warcraft's PvP Policy.

Dishonorable Actions
Actions that would typically be considered "dishonorable" are considered appropriate actions in a PvP situation and will not be addressed by our Game Master (GM) staff. Dishonorable actions include, but are not limited to:
- Corpse camping.
- Tricking players into getting flagged for PvP (i.e. jumping in the middle of another player's area effect spell).
- Killing players well below your level.

It's fine that some players have created unwritten rules, but in all fairness ... they are still invalid.

[zoomgpally]

What do you think about it? Oh and I think It's awesome DEAL WITH IT hahahaha!!! Okay your turn ~

I think they shouldnt make it possible to disappear after ganking somebody without logging out
Damn crossrealm people ganking my alts, then disappearing when i log my main...

[Endus]

The culture on many PvP realms was that you did enagge in PvP, you did get attacked and you were always in danger. You also had the lack of griefing that some players engage in, the behaviour that turns many players away from PvP. Asking for players to give up that danger, that excitement because Blizzard decided that World PvP is somehow special enough that it doesn't deserve to be covered by the rest of its polices and that griefing is to be encouraged, and that mass disruption to guilds and players game experience is acceptable misses the point.

Should PvP be encouraged? es. Should griefing, in all its forms, be encouraged? No.

Then play on a PvE server. That's what you're saying you want. Nobody's saying that's a bad choice. Those of us who actually like PvP servers will enjoy them as they are.

Them's your choices. You don't get to stomp your feet and demand that PvP servers be no different than PvE servers because you had no clue what you were getting into when you rolled on one. Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that you're being forced into something, and you aren't. You're on a server type you chose, and there's an alternative ruleset that is exactly what you want. The only person subjecting you to the "unfair" PvP servers is you.

You are grossly incorrect about the desires of the community. Stop projecting your own personal preferences as if they were some kind of universal truth; they absolutely are not. PvP servers and the chaotic, murderous, unfair environment they allow for have been wildly popular since they were introduced. And they absolutely WERE this unfair during Vanilla.

If you made a bad choice because you didn't read the PvP realm policy, suck it up and take responsibility for that choice. If you made it because the actual experience wasn't as harsh as promised in the realm policy, it was still an uninformed choice, since that policy hasn't wavered. You made a decision based on an ephemeral that you incorrectly assumed wouldn't change, and it did. That's on you.

So go play on a PVE server, and leave those who like PvP servers alone.

[serravenger]

I tend to lurk on their forums from time to time and I got to say this is possibly one of the funniest responses in awhile; This is what Daxxari has stated for those who rolled on a PVP realm and are crying about being ganked multiple times by a obviously higher level player

This is going to sound weird, and while I do empathize with the frustration that's being expressed in this thread, this conversation still warms the cockles of my black little heart.

Why? Because for too long there was very little distinction between playing on a PvE realm and playing on a PvP realm. We had inadvertently created a situation where there was little risk when leveling in the world on a PvP realm. The experiences were, for all practical purposes, virtually identical, but that wasn't what we had in mind.

Life on a PvP realm can be nasty, brutish and short. Justice is in very short supply. Every action you take in the world carries with it an added level of risk, from questing, to hunting down profession materials, to simply traveling from place to place. You can be attacked at any time, sometimes by an overwhelming force. Of course, the shoe can also be on the other foot, and you'll be able to turn the tables on your attacker, or find clever ways to delay them or escape from them. Some will become roaming slayers, seeking out enemies to destroy.

In short, the experience on a PvP server is different. We want it to be different, and that includes everything from honorable conflict on the field of battle to horribly despicable ganking. It's all part of the fabric that makes a PvP server what it is.

Let the blood be spilled.

Full Source - > http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0822467?page=1

What do you think about it? Oh and I think It's awesome DEAL WITH IT hahahaha!!! Okay your turn ~

Best response ever!
Am pretty sure when you pick your server there is something that explains what pvp vs pve means and if you cant figure it out stay on pvp servers cause you make me giggle.

[zoomgpally]

+10 to you.

People piss me off when they say "it's not PVP if they're low level"

Sure it is, it's a Player versus another Player. Regardless of level. Sure it's a dick move, but in te end, it's PVP on a PVP server.

Agree, player with paintball gun vs player in abrams tank is still player vs player;P

[Casthiel]

My opinion?

It might have helped cut down on the people complaining if they had done something like offer optional server transfers before they put CRZ in place.

exactly this. Most pvp servers are not balanced, and some like mal'ganis (top 5 US server) for horde and sargeras (top 3 US server) for alliance are so heavily umbalanced that the other faction is pretty much non existant.

Both these servers (and i'm sure many other umbalanced pvp servers) have some awesome PvE guilds, are very crowded (very easy finding groups for old raids, new raids, achievs, dungeons etc etc) and have very good AH.

When i chose a server, i considered very carefully how balanced (or not) the server was. I had no idea all of a sudden there would be tons of max lv of the other faction ganking lowbies in a server that had been 99,9% of 1 faction for years.

IF i knew that CRZ were coming, i would have chosen a Pve server instead of a completely umbalanced pvp one.

But now it's "suck it up or pay to move". Kinda hard to do when you have many alts on that kind of server and the price is so high. Unnacceptable.

[Cows For Life]

Except there, the people who created the lack of class balance was Blizzard. With the servers, it's the players who chose where they wanted to play. You're comparing apples to ducklings.

Blizzard put in the paid services with virtually no restraints and no regard for the effect that unchecked changes would do to a realm especially when there should have been restraints. (It's not like Blizzard hadn't stepped in in prior situations when it came to realm balancing). They had a responsibility to make sure that new features going into the game didn't mess it up too badly but I suppose money talks in this case.

It's not very amusing to be on a realm with near balanced populations and lively PvE and PvP scenes, and over a year, have mass transfers from other realms to one side (in some cases to get away from other unbalanced realms) and then when faction changes were introduced, over the next year, mass numbers changing over from the outnumbered side to the "winning" side.

This has played out on a lot of servers. The few that are left are presented with the options of either pay up to leave, deal with a dead server, re-roll elsewhere, or quit. Quite frankly, not acceptable. No way someone should be forced to pay up/re-roll everything or else suffer from a sub-par game experience just because other people paid $25 more. Moving or re-rolling itself can be an adventure because Blizzard hides information about populations and such. (High, medium, low doesn't count)

Oh and Blizzard really screwed up with the EMFH and horde PvE racials. You give any opening to the min-max types and large numbers will take it. Whether it's racial bonuses or realm transfers. Things that distort the game environment like this need to go. Maybe it will be in the game by the time 6.0/7.0 rolls along with cross realm AH and raids?

Yes. Because that is what a PvP server is.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...-server-policy

If you want further constraints on PvP, then PvE servers exist to serve that purpose.

It isn't Blizzard's fault you chose the wrong server because you didn't understand the server type distinctions.

There are plenty of constraints on PvP realms and they have changed from time to time. It doesn't mean they won't change again or shouldn't.

[Endus]

Blizzard put in the paid services with virtually no restraints and no regard for the effect that unchecked changes would do to a realm especially when there should have been restraints. (It's not like Blizzard hadn't stepped in in prior situations when it came to realm balancing). They had a responsibility to make sure that new features going into the game didn't mess it up too badly but I suppose money talks in this case.

CRZ is the first step towards fixing the population balance issue. It probably needs some tweaking, but it can fix that issue, moving forward.

And whatever restraints you imagine should have been put on the transfer/faction changes would have been worse for the game than the lack of them has been. For instance, a lot of guilds recruit from out of server, for people who are leaving their current server and want a new home. If they're on the populated faction, and you restrict transfers/faction changes to a faction based on population, you limit their ability to recruit in this way.

And as much as you complain that transfers ruined everything, they've always been an option for you, as well. I've server transferred twice (not for pop imbalance issues, just overall realm population issues, and always to relatively balanced servers). They don't cost much, just enough to make it not something you'll want to do constantly. If your budget is so tight you can't afford $25 for a server transfer, then you probably should rethink whether you should be spending $15/month on WoW to begin with, to be honest. $25 is about what you pay for a movie these days, including snacks; it's not egregious at all.

[Orange Joe]

My opinion?

It might have helped cut down on the people complaining if they had done something like offer optional server transfers before they put CRZ in place.

I don't think they should have. You signed up to a pvp realm knowing or agreeing to the fact at any moment you could be camped/ganked. If you didn't you shouldn't be on a pvp server.


(Didn't look at post dates before I replied.)

[Scummer]

I don't think they should have. You signed up to a pvp realm knowing or agreeing to the fact at any moment you could be camped/ganked. If you didn't you shouldn't be on a pvp server.


(Didn't look at post dates before I replied.)

Actually they did kinda do something.
Do you not remember a 25% off server transfers like a month after CRZ's were announced?

[thunderdragon2]

Actually they did kinda do something.
Do you not remember a 25% off server transfers like a month after CRZ's were announced?

nope i don't

but i do remember a fcm off my server at the beginning of mop be cause the server was inbalaced but it was to a low pop pvp realm

[Endus]

nope i don't

but i do remember a fcm off my server at the beginning of mop be cause the server was inbalaced but it was to a low pop pvp realm

Free character transfers are always only ever from high-pop servers to low-pop. They do this to help mitigate queue times on the high-pop server as much as anything else; it's not really relevant to what we're discussing here.

[Gandrake]

Actually they did kinda do something.
Do you not remember a 25% off server transfers like a month after CRZ's were announced?

Trying to call that "something" is a bit of a stretch, even to someone who thinks that these people have made their beds and must now lie in them.

[Blackeyecycle]

It's 2AM, I am bored and Q's are taking forever.. PvP for me is smashing greys in zones I don't belong in. Thanks Blizzard

[Deleted]

Then play on a PvE server. That's what you're saying you want. Nobody's saying that's a bad choice. Those of us who actually like PvP servers will enjoy them as they are.

Them's your choices. You don't get to stomp your feet and demand that PvP servers be no different than PvE servers because you had no clue what you were getting into when you rolled on one. Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that you're being forced into something, and you aren't. You're on a server type you chose, and there's an alternative ruleset that is exactly what you want. The only person subjecting you to the "unfair" PvP servers is you.

You are grossly incorrect about the desires of the community. Stop projecting your own personal preferences as if they were some kind of universal truth; they absolutely are not. PvP servers and the chaotic, murderous, unfair environment they allow for have been wildly popular since they were introduced. And they absolutely WERE this unfair during Vanilla.

If you made a bad choice because you didn't read the PvP realm policy, suck it up and take responsibility for that choice. If you made it because the actual experience wasn't as harsh as promised in the realm policy, it was still an uninformed choice, since that policy hasn't wavered. You made a decision based on an ephemeral that you incorrectly assumed wouldn't change, and it did. That's on you.

So go play on a PVE server, and leave those who like PvP servers alone.

I very much doubt it was ever the original intention that you could be griefed by someone not even on your own server. Strikes me Blizzard have moved the goal posts to your liking so you defend it. I have every sympathy for anyone caught out by the game changing steaming pile of manure called CRZ when it was "PvP lite" for OVER 5 years.

[Nerraw]

I very much doubt it was ever the original intention that you could be griefed by someone not even on your own server. Strikes me Blizzard have moved the goal posts to your liking so you defend it. I have every sympathy for anyone caught out by the game changing steaming pile of manure called CRZ when it was "PvP lite" for OVER 5 years.

How does it change anything? The policy is the policy, and has been so for 8 years. Even if the reality has been different on many realms for a while, there has always been the potential for ganking. Now they've just returned the Massively back into the MMO. Sometimes I really think people forget this is a game that's supposed to have hundreds and thousands of people actively playing in the world at the same time. Blizzard finally fixed that part of the game.

[Endus]

I very much doubt it was ever the original intention that you could be griefed by someone not even on your own server.

I fail to see the difference. The original intent was that you could be griefed. It didn't mention that it would only be people from your server doing the griefing; the point was that griefing was to be expected.

And then the population tended to stick to the current endgame content, and the old world zones became empty, and people stopped being griefed. So since there aren't enough players in those zones on your server to provide the correct amount of griefing, as intended, they brought in CRZ to help populate those zones to ensure there was adequate griefing.

What server they're from is irrelevant. The goal was to provide the intended experience, and that intended experience has always been to be under constant threat and attack. And we've cited both the game manual and the PvP realm policy which both have always explained this, since Vanilla.


They didn't have a way to fix this, before CRZ. Now that they do, they implemented it, to provide the promised experience on PvP realms. If you ignored the realm policy and the stated intent and rolled there anyway, that's YOUR error, not Blizzard's. Everyone who rolled on a PvP server should be lauding this change, and if not, then they rolled on the wrong server type, and need to accept responsibility for that error.

[Deleted]

I fail to see the difference. The original intent was that you could be griefed. It didn't mention that it would only be people from your server doing the griefing; the point was that griefing was to be expected.

And then the population tended to stick to the current endgame content, and the old world zones became empty, and people stopped being griefed. So since there aren't enough players in those zones on your server to provide the correct amount of griefing, as intended, they brought in CRZ to help populate those zones to ensure there was adequate griefing.

What server they're from is irrelevant. The goal was to provide the intended experience, and that intended experience has always been to be under constant threat and attack. And we've cited both the game manual and the PvP realm policy which both have always explained this, since Vanilla.


They didn't have a way to fix this, before CRZ. Now that they do, they implemented it, to provide the promised experience on PvP realms. If you ignored the realm policy and the stated intent and rolled there anyway, that's YOUR error, not Blizzard's. Everyone who rolled on a PvP server should be lauding this change, and if not, then they rolled on the wrong server type, and need to accept responsibility for that error.

I firmly belive people are more likely to act like a bell end if they know there can be no come back or server rep to harm. Im not sure Ill hold anyone on my faction who ganked low lvls for hours on end in any high regard. That what I think the difference is.

[thunderdragon2]

Free character transfers are always only ever from high-pop servers to low-pop. They do this to help mitigate queue times on the high-pop server as much as anything else; it's not really relevant to what we're discussing here.

i know but i did stay on topic as i said i don't remember blizzard giving a discount on PCT be4 mop

yet again endus who's fault was it that the players stuck to end game content? blizzard designed it that way, i do remember a bit of world pvp in wrath in cata there was zero well almost zero depending on your server