Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Endus]

I do like pvp servers.

I signed up to play on pvp servers.

There are no servers any more.

Yes there are. They just bring in additional servers if the local zone population is too low.

Seriously, it's like the people who complained about LFD killing server community. There never WAS a "server community", and pretty much everyone agrees that LFD was a huge quality-of-life increase, so much so it's becoming a standard expected MMORPG feature in other games as well.

[Deleted]

Yes there are. They just bring in additional servers if the local zone population is too low.

Which is the same as there no longer being servers. A server has a distinct population and when that population logs off (say at 3 am on a tuesday) then there are fewer people around.

Seriously, it's like the people who complained about LFD killing server community. There never WAS a "server community", and pretty much everyone agrees that LFD was a huge quality-of-life increase, so much so it's becoming a standard expected MMORPG feature in other games as well.

Who said I was complaining?

I am outlining why the arguments on pvp servers to CR servers being signed up for are factually incorrect.

[oblivionx]

Allowing ganking without a level range is pointless.

I've leveled some alts and found some crz tools just flying around killing everyone. It's not pvp when you one shot everyone you see, no challenge whatsoever... I get the idea to pvp servers, but they ought just make a level range to attack lower levels and it will only solve problems instead of creating them.

I like the challenge of questing out a zone and competing with a hordie that might be better twinked but it's still gonna be a fight. That's pvp and what a pvp server ought offer. But level 90's flying around with the intent of griefing people isn't in the spirit of a pvp server.

[Munjica]

I've leveled some alts and found some crz tools just flying around killing everyone. It's not pvp when you one shot everyone you see, no challenge whatsoever... I get the idea to pvp servers, but they ought just make a level range to attack lower levels and it will only solve problems instead of creating them.

Agree, in this state it would be like there are no brackets in pvp, so you can be queued with players of any level. Or there are no level range for dungeon or no mmr. Some content is appropriate for some players, and it should be applied to all things.

[Endus]

Which is the same as there no longer being servers. A server has a distinct population and when that population logs off (say at 3 am on a tuesday) then there are fewer people around.

Which sort of defeats the purpose of an MMO, hence the change. There's no reason a server's distinct population should have any inherent value.

Who said I was complaining?

I am outlining why the arguments on pvp servers to CR servers being signed up for are factually incorrect.

It doesn't matter if people signed up for CRZ. They agreed to a constantly changing online experience, since every patch changes things. On PvP servers, they agreed to getting camped and ganked by max-level players constantly, so CRZ increasing that occurrence also doesn't matter.

People aren't complaining, for the most part, about CRZ. They're complaining about getting camped and ganked more often. And that's not a complaint about CRZ, it's a complaint about normal PvP server gameplay. And the correct reaction is to get off the PvP server and go play on a PvE server.

Allowing ganking without a level range is pointless.

I've leveled some alts and found some crz tools just flying around killing everyone. It's not pvp when you one shot everyone you see, no challenge whatsoever... I get the idea to pvp servers, but they ought just make a level range to attack lower levels and it will only solve problems instead of creating them.

I like the challenge of questing out a zone and competing with a hordie that might be better twinked but it's still gonna be a fight. That's pvp and what a pvp server ought offer. But level 90's flying around with the intent of griefing people isn't in the spirit of a pvp server.

Entirely and completely false. Seriously, it isn't everyone else's fault that they read the PvP realm policy and you didn't. That fault is yours. Getting ganked by higher levels is explicitly and specifically allowed for and encouraged on PvP realms. It is the core of why they exist. If you did not know that, then it's your fault you didn't read the PvP realm rules, because it's always been true.

If you don't like it, while that's totally understandable, the way you deal with that is by playing on a PvE server.

[Deleted]

Allowing ganking without a level range is pointless.

I've leveled some alts and found some crz tools just flying around killing everyone. It's not pvp when you one shot everyone you see, no challenge whatsoever... I get the idea to pvp servers, but they ought just make a level range to attack lower levels and it will only solve problems instead of creating them.

I like the challenge of questing out a zone and competing with a hordie that might be better twinked but it's still gonna be a fight. That's pvp and what a pvp server ought offer. But level 90's flying around with the intent of griefing people isn't in the spirit of a pvp server.

The main reason it's not in the spirit of a pvp server is that they can just fly off to their capital cities and you can't find them or follow them. Pop out, gank lowbies, if it gets rough just go back to their home server for a bit. Load of rubbish.

Another thing is that on a pvp server, at some point it gets quiet - but with CRZ there is 24/7 gankmasters being lofted in from other servers so that there is always a full compliment of dickheads around to nuke lowbies. Potential randomised and occassional danger is a really fun aspect to a game like wow. A near certainty of instant death from above isn't fun.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 03:46 PM ----------

Which sort of defeats the purpose of an MMO, hence the change. There's no reason a server's distinct population should have any inherent value.

So you agree people didn't sign up for it?

It doesn't matter if people signed up for CRZ. They agreed to a constantly changing online experience, since every patch changes things. On PvP servers, they agreed to getting camped and ganked by max-level players constantly, so CRZ increasing that occurrence also doesn't matter.

Ah ok - so erm you just removed your right to ever complain about anything in wow, ever again. You signed up to it. Anything you don't like is tough titties. Might make posting here a bit tricky when all you can say is "I signed up to this, we all did, all is well and fine" but well, that's your choice.

People aren't complaining, for the most part, about CRZ. They're complaining about getting camped and ganked more often. And that's not a complaint about CRZ, it's a complaint about normal PvP server gameplay. And the correct reaction is to get off the PvP server and go play on a PvE server.

At no point did I claim to be speaking or all people. I just outlined the factual basis for the position that saying people signed up to the current game environment is wrong.

Entirely and completely false. Seriously, it isn't everyone else's fault that they read the PvP realm policy and you didn't. That fault is yours. Getting ganked by higher levels is explicitly and specifically allowed for and encouraged on PvP realms. It is the core of why they exist. If you did not know that, then it's your fault you didn't read the PvP realm rules, because it's always been true.

If you don't like it, while that's totally understandable, the way you deal with that is by playing on a PvE server.

You seem to be alternating between saying people did and did not sign up to the current system, any chance you can pick just one position and stick to it?

[Deathgoose]

The thread could have stopped here. For all the supposed ownage by the blue, the fact that you can level up on on a PvE server and transfer to a PvP server at 90 fully PvP geared deflates every single thing he said. There is no hardcore in this game, it's like the sad individuals who run around flagged on a PvE/RP server thinking they are badass. When in reality they are just too soft to roll with a real PvP environment.

Playing on a PvE/RP server, that is exactly what I feel when a couple of "PvP Heroes" decide to kill quest/vendor NPC's in Goldshire (Or Crossroads when I was playing Horde)

If I had my way, on a PvE server, you wouldn't be able to target quest/vendor NPC's of the opposite factions, because the whole point behind being on a PvE server is I don't want to be inconvenienced by some random prick that thinks it's good lulz interfere with people trying to quest. (Guards can still be targettable, since their presence doesn't really do much, so long as they aren't quest/vendor NPCs)

If I wanted such a thing, I would roll on a PvP server!

And yes, I also feel it was kind of weak that they relaxed two of the original rules for a PvP server:

1) Pick a faction, play that faction. You were either Alliance, or you were Horde. No straddling the fences on a PvP server. You want to play the other faction, roll on another server.
2) You can leave a PvP server at any time if you get tired of that playstyle, but if you want to join one, you do it like everyone else. Roll up a level 1 and get your ass ganked for 60/70/80/85/90 levels until you can return the favor. None of this level on a PvE server, get geared in safety, THEN go play with the big kids.

[Endus]

The main reason it's not in the spirit of a pvp server is that they can just fly off to their capital cities and you can't find them or follow them. Pop out, gank lowbies, if it gets rough just go back to their home server for a bit. Load of rubbish.

They've always been able to retreat to their capital for safety. That's unrelated to CRZ.

Another thing is that on a pvp server, at some point it gets quiet - but with CRZ there is 24/7 gankmasters being lofted in from other servers so that there is always a full compliment of dickheads around to nuke lowbies. Potential randomised and occassional danger is a really fun aspect to a game like wow. A near certainty of instant death from above isn't fun.

1> It isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be, having leveled multiple characters from 1-90 post-CRZ.

2> Yes, constant threat and the near certainty of instant death IS what PvP servers are about. They explicitly allow for and encourage higher level players to hunt down and camp lower levels.

[Nerraw]

Is that a yes, a no or a "lets waffle and hope he doesnt notice I've chickened out"?

It's a yes, I'm fine with the current state of things. It's people's own fault that they didn't read up on what they were choosing.

[Deleted]

They've always been able to retreat to their capital for safety. That's unrelated to CRZ.

No they haven't, from way back in vanilla i've gone into IF and so on and got revenge on people. Had people I know nuked down in org as well

1> It isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be, having leveled multiple characters from 1-90 post-CRZ.

EU or US?

2> Yes, constant threat and the near certainty of instant death IS what PvP servers are about. They explicitly allow for and encourage higher level players to hunt down and camp lower levels.

Nah, until you weren't certain of danger and it was easy to avoid if you came accross it.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 03:54 PM ----------

It's a yes, I'm fine with the current state of things. It's people's own fault that they didn't read up on what they were choosing.

People did read up. They aren't getting what they signed up to.

Why is this hard to follow?

[Nerraw]

People did read up. They aren't getting what they signed up to.

Why is this hard to follow?

They signed up for an experience that has no rules. They're getting what they signed up for.

[Munjica]

I'm wondering why did they revamped almost all zones in azeroth when they want players to not do them and just level trough dungeons. No sane person will go outside of safe zones and be food for high level and not progress at all. Their logic that they want players in the world is instead They want level 90 in the world and not anyone else.

[Nerraw]

I'm wondering why did they revamped almost all zones in azeroth when they want players to not do them and just level trough dungeons. No sane person will go outside of safe zones and be food for high level and not progress at all. Their logic that they want players in the world is instead They want level 90 in the world and not anyone else.

PVE servers -> That way.

[Endus]

No they haven't, from way back in vanilla i've gone into IF and so on and got revenge on people. Had people I know nuked down in org as well

That was only possible if they were PvP flagged. That's why there was the old lulz-tactic of charging some bruiser into a major city and having them pop a Petrification potion (rendered them frozen but immune to damage for a few minutes), let all the noobs try and hit you and fail and flag themselves, and have the rogues who'd stealthed in behind you set up a mine deathtrap around the mess to kill everyone. You had to get them to flag themselves.

People did read up. They aren't getting what they signed up to.

Why is this hard to follow?

Because it's just flat-out not true. It IS what they signed up for, and what the policy has always stated the PvP environment was intended to be like. If they'd read the PvP realm policy, they'd know that.

Don't like getting ganked by multiple 90s and camped for hours? Roll on a PvE realm. It's explicitly what PvP realms exist to allow for.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...-server-policy

Seriously, it's like none of you are reading it. If your complaints are about ganking by high levels or getting camped a lot, well, that's what PvP realms are for. It has squat to do with CRZ; CRZ just re-enabled it in the old world zones by ensuring population levels were high enough there. The only actual complaint about CRZ itself that we've seen is "I can't track them through multiple zones on my kill-on-sight list", and that was never a promised aspect of gameplay. And elements such as that change all the time. And that particular one is well worth the tradeoff of actually having lively and active zones from 1-85.

[Munjica]

PVE servers -> That way.

What if they are that way?

[Deleted]

That was only possible if they were PvP flagged. That's why there was the old lulz-tactic of charging some bruiser into a major city and having them pop a Petrification potion (rendered them frozen but immune to damage for a few minutes), let all the noobs try and hit you and fail and flag themselves, and have the rogues who'd stealthed in behind you set up a mine deathtrap around the mess to kill everyone. You had to get them to flag themselves.



Because it's just flat-out not true. It IS what they signed up for, and what the policy has always stated the PvP environment was intended to be like. If they'd read the PvP realm policy, they'd know that.

Don't like getting ganked by multiple 90s and camped for hours? Roll on a PvE realm. It's explicitly what PvP realms exist to allow for.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...-server-policy

Seriously, it's like none of you are reading it. If your complaints are about ganking by high levels or getting camped a lot, well, that's what PvP realms are for. It has squat to do with CRZ; CRZ just re-enabled it in the old world zones by ensuring population levels were high enough there. The only actual complaint about CRZ itself that we've seen is "I can't track them through multiple zones on my kill-on-sight list", and that was never a promised aspect of gameplay. And elements such as that change all the time. And that particular one is well worth the tradeoff of actually having lively and active zones from 1-85.

So you aren't going to pick which argument you are backing?

Can't debate with you if you change your mind all the time, cheers for the interaction so far but that's me done with you until you pick one.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 04:07 PM ----------

They signed up for an experience that has no rules. They're getting what they signed up for.

So, "server" isn't a rule?

[Nerraw]

So, "server" isn't a rule?

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...-server-policy

I don't see anything there stating that they have to be on your server. So no.

Addendum:

Player versus Player (PvP) realms are specifically designed to allow open combat between members of the Horde and the Alliance factions.

Notice the word "open". As long as it's cross-faction, it's all good if you chose to roll on a PVP server.

[oblivionx]

Entirely and completely false. Seriously, it isn't everyone else's fault that they read the PvP realm policy and you didn't. That fault is yours. Getting ganked by higher levels is explicitly and specifically allowed for and encouraged on PvP realms. It is the core of why they exist. If you did not know that, then it's your fault you didn't read the PvP realm rules, because it's always been true.

If you don't like it, while that's totally understandable, the way you deal with that is by playing on a PvE server.

My opinion is entirely and completely false?

Other games have had pvp servers where you couldn't attack people X levels beneath you and it worked fine.

I read the rules quite well, it doesn't actually bother me much that high level gankers kill my lowbie alt... I just find that allowing it is pointless and counter to blizzard's pvp servers, compounded by CRZ now.

What is the point to allowing player to attack people 50 levels/30 levels/even 10 levels lower than them? The purity of "pvp server"? The engaging gameplay of deciding which attack to kill someone with followed by the complex and challenging use of some /emote?

CRZ has made it even worse, in the past you really only had to worry about people on your server doing it and you could easily find someone to deal with them. With CRZ it's something entirely different now.

Lastly, why is it you constantly attack people when you are a moderator?

[Deleted]

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...-server-policy

I don't see anything there stating that they have to be on your server. So no.

Addendum:



Notice the word "open". As long as it's cross-faction, it's all good if you chose to roll on a PVP server.

That doesn't mention CRZ.

[Endus]

So you aren't going to pick which argument you are backing?

Can't debate with you if you change your mind all the time, cheers for the interaction so far but that's me done with you until you pick one.

I have no idea what you're going on about. My argument is very simple.

- Ganking and camping by max-level players has always been the stated intent of PvP realms.
- Population levels in ones outside the current expansion content have suffered population issues, and CRZ corrected that, restoring the intended experience.
- If you're having issues with the PvP server experience post-CRZ, the issue is that you did not understand what PvP servers exist to provide, not that there's something "wrong" with them because they allow ganking and camping by high levels.

I'm not "changing my mind all the time", and I have no idea where you're pulling that from. I've been saying the same thing since I first posted in this thread.