Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Osmeric]

The TOS says blizzard can provide you with absolutely anything they want to. So, for definitions we have to look at how things actually operated.

Fools try to hold up the ToS as a definition of what we should be happy with. In actuality, it is nothing of the sort; its purpose is to define what we can sue Blizzard over.

[Orange Joe]

Wrong tense.


I already have.

No you haven't. You have provided 0 proof.

[Nerraw]

You are paying for whatever blizzard gives, it's right there in the ToS.

Same goes for everyone else, which, as of the Mists pre-patch, is a hell of a lot more active old-world zones, with all the ganking and griefing being at an all time high on PVP realms. And you know what? That change has come to stay. If people can't handle that, they should roll on/switch to a PVE realm. Or quit. It's fine if people can't handle world PVP, it's not for everyone. But whining and crying like a little child and demanding the core nature of the servertype is changed when there's a solution right at hand (PVE realms) is not fine.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

World of Warcraft: End User License Agreement

World of Warcraft: Terms of Use

WoW Wiki: PvP Realm

List of PvP servers as to avoid confusion when rolling a new character

Definition of Player vs Player


Funny, in all these sites, the word "DISCRETE" is not mentioned. At all. That takes it back to OPINION and not FACT.

[Endus]

For 8 years, pvp servers were discrete, in fact all servers were discrete, pve, RP, RPVPV, whatever. This is also a fact. Blizzard defined what a pvp server was by their repeated actions.

Except that PvP servers haven't been "discrete" since patch 1.12, with the introduction of battlegroups and cross-realm battlegrounds. A move which has been increasingly expanded over the years, with LFD, LFR, RealID friends and cross-realm grouping and raiding, and now the next step, CRZ.

You're arguing about a concept that is not in any of the relevant policies or definitions, and which hasn't been true in practice since relatively early in WoW's lifespan. Can you now engage in cross-realm world PvP? Sure. That's a change. It was also a change when you could engage in cross-realm dungeons. Or cross-realm battlegrounds. Change is built into the TOS as an expected process. None of this is in any way a breach of policy or expected development. CRZ is just the next step in the logical progression of expanding cross-realm technology, systems that were introduced over six years ago and have been expanded on regularly since that time.

[Deleted]

I like what the blue said. But something screw everything up.

Server imbalance.

Even if you choose to play on a pvp server, if the pop is dramaticaly imbalance (which it tend to be over time since outnumbered faction player tend to quit to be on the "good side"), players of the "wrong side" have no chance doing anything except ganking lowbies. This is just 3vs17 massacre on most realm...

They have to adress this problem before forcing players into "wpvp zones". And crz is not a solution to adress it...

[Nerraw]

This sort of reasoning is 100% bogus. Having clicked "yes" on the ToS doesn't mean one has any obligation to refrain from complaining about any aspect of the game. Nor is complaining an indication that you, Mongo4200, are at fault for anything.

Customers have an inalienable right to define what will or will not satisfy them. All the design intentions, ToS forms, tacit agreements, developer definitions or warnings will not change this. The CRZ change pissed off a substantial number of people, and all the legalistic BS doesn't remove that unhappiness.

It is a problem when the changes people are demanding for PVP realms are readily available on the PVE realms and have been since the absolute beginning. No one forced them to roll on the PVP realms. Yet some people feel those of us who chose PVP realms for a reason should be forced off them. That is what we have a problem with.

[Deleted]

Except that PvP servers haven't been "discrete" since patch 1.12, with the introduction of battlegroups and cross-realm battlegrounds. A move which has been increasingly expanded over the years, with LFD, LFR, RealID friends and cross-realm grouping and raiding, and now the next step, CRZ.

The option to leave your server to join an instance isn't the same as your server no longer being discrete. Sorry about that.

You're arguing about a concept that is not in any of the relevant policies or definitions, and which hasn't been true in practice since relatively early in WoW's lifespan. Can you now engage in cross-realm world PvP? Sure. That's a change. It was also a change when you could engage in cross-realm dungeons. Or cross-realm battlegrounds. Change is built into the TOS as an expected process. None of this is in any way a breach of policy or expected development. CRZ is just the next step in the logical progression of expanding cross-realm technology, systems that were introduced over six years ago and have been expanded on regularly since that time.

I'm not arguing, i'm pointing out how things actually were for 8 years.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

I think I just found my new sig.

lol I noticed that

[Deleted]

World of Warcraft: End User License Agreement

World of Warcraft: Terms of Use

WoW Wiki: PvP Realm

List of PvP servers as to avoid confusion when rolling a new character

Definition of Player vs Player


Funny, in all these sites, the word "DISCRETE" is not mentioned. At all. That takes it back to OPINION and not FACT.

Apart from them actually being discrete servers for 8 years, you are right.

lol

[Keoren]

They have to adress this problem before forcing players into "wpvp zones". And crz is not a solution to adress it...

On the contrary, CRZ is a step to fixing the problem. It enables the players of multiple realms to play together. This includes both of the factions and the chances are that if the realm is extremely unbalanced CRZ will end up balancing it wherever active.

I'm not arguing, i'm pointing out how things actually were for 8 years.

PvP realm environment has not been a static experience for 8 years. It has also largely shifted away from being very discrete quite some time ago.

Was it more discrete before CRZ? Yes, definitely.
Is this an issue? I do not think so.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

actually being discrete servers

And this is where your opinion gets a flat tire. You failed to give verifiable facts. You failed to prove Blizzard defining their PvP realms as "discrete", and you make a casual "lol" comment as you back out of the conversation. Might be time for you to get back to tea and crumpets old pip. Cheerio!

[Funky303]

Please show me the Blizz ToS, ToU, or EULA where it DEFINES PvP servers as "Discrete".

Folks no one cares if "discrete" or whatever is written in the ToS/EULA.

The big thing most people care who raise their voices over a broken PVP on PVP servers are the people playing on servers where there is a huge mismatch in horde to alliance ratio. It is simply no fun to play on a server where the other faction is on a ration of 8:1 (my server, Frostwolf EU has that ratio Horde 8:1 Alliance). At the moment on most PVP servers i have toons on there is no population balance. Blizzard introduced payed faction change and server transfer even to overpopulated servers, so the problem got worse over the last two years IMHO!

I don't have a problem with world PVP as long as i have some choices to avoid beeing overganked. I had them with leveling in dungeons or switching the questhubs/questzones when beeing overganked. With CRZ and the "no leveling in dungeons" stuff Blizzard really made the regular leveling on a high pop server almost impossible.

The easiest solution would be to merge PVP servers with high Horde and high Alliance Ratios to one big server.

When I started to play WoW on Frostwolf EU, it was one of four german servers, and one of two PVP servers. The description of PVP has absolutely nothing to do with PVP as we know it today, there was no resillience and PVP power. Gear and skill was everything that matterd. On my leveling period i had lots of funny hours in Gankethorn Vale (Strangle) and even more when arriving my first time in Southshore. We had (despite Frostwolf beeing more populated with alliance at that time) epic battles in front of Tarrens Mill and Southshore.

But today there is nothing like that anymore. And there are no balanded populated servers anymore.

So all i want is a free transfer to another server, since I would have to pay more than 200 Eur if i would like to switch all my characters. I do understand that the high price is to stop people switch servers on a daily basis, but I really do NOT understand why it could EVER cost 200-220 Euro to just change a variable in a database. At least they could add a really big discount the first time and raise the price for every following transfer.

Together with the nasty PVP burst in Pandaria, PVP changed from a often avoidable to a mostly no more avoidable POS.

Just my 2cents.

[Nerraw]

I like what the blue said. But something screw everything up.

Server imbalance.

Even if you choose to play on a pvp server, if the pop is dramaticaly imbalance (which it tend to be over time since outnumbered faction player tend to quit to be on the "good side"), players of the "wrong side" have no chance doing anything except ganking lowbies. This is just 3vs17 massacre on most realm...

They have to adress this problem before forcing players into "wpvp zones". And crz is not a solution to adress it...

Unless a lot of people suddenly switch factions, there will always be an overweight of one faction over the other. Blizzard can't change that, only the players can.

[Endus]

The option to leave your server to join an instance isn't the same as your server no longer being discrete. Sorry about that.

There you go, twisting what I've said into something completely different, because you'd rather attack a straw man than my actual point.

Yes, I said it wasn't the same. I said it was the next logical step down a patch they've been treading since 2006, of greater cross-realm interconnection.

And while servers may have, at one point, been "discrete", it was never part of the package, it was simply how things happened to work. That discreteness has caused repeated and constant issues with population density, which is why they have increasingly created cross-realm options to mitigate that issue.

You keep acting as if a server's "discreteness" were something of inherent value, when it is not. It apparently has value to you, but that's your personal preference, not a fact. Discrete populations have advantages (knowing your neighbours), and disadvantages (stagnation, long queue times, parsity of population, etc). They are not inherently "good" in the way you're implying.

And again; the populations have NOT been distinct in at least 6 years. That's why there are things called "battlegroups", because servers do not exist entirely separate from each other. Server transfers damage the discreteness you're talking about, too.

Holding a placard saying "FIX OLD NO NEW" doesn't actually help the discussion in any way. The development team is going to keep moving forward. CRZ fixes a lot of outstanding issues with population densities, in a way that nobody has offered any reasonable alternative to. There's no way they're going back because some few people want to claim that discrete server populations are what make them feel fuzzy inside.

[Keoren]

Just my 2cents.

Yes, but CRZ is not the cause to the lack of balance. If anything, it helps the players on unbalanced realms.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

The big thing most people care who raise their voices over a broken PVP on PVP servers are the people playing on servers where there is a huge mismatch in horde to alliance ratio. It is simply no fun to play on a server where the other faction is on a ration of 8:1 (my server, Frostwolf EU has that ratio Horde 8:1 Alliance).

News flash... before CRZ every PvP server was imbalanced. That is how people picked their "safe server" cause they wanted to play a certain faction and not get ganked. So they would google wow server balances and find out which one was horde or alliance heavy and roll there. NOW, thanks to CRZ, things are finally coming back into balance. Where YOUR realm might be horde heavy, the OTHER realm might be alliance heavy. CRZ has improved WorldPVP and is shows by the large number of high pop PvP realms and the whining that only comes from a handful of forum dwellers.

I for one am glad the Blizz doesn't listen to the whining and the whims of people who are FINALLY getting PvP on a PvP server because the balance is being restored. Then again, it was never meant to be balanced, so if it ends up 8:1, then get better or get out. PvP realms should not have to change just because you wanted PvE on a PvP realm when your friend talked you into joining a PvP realm

[Deleted]

There you go, twisting what I've said into something completely different, because you'd rather attack a straw man than my actual point.

Yes, I said it wasn't the same. I said it was the next logical step down a patch they've been treading since 2006, of greater cross-realm interconnection.

And while servers may have, at one point, been "discrete", it was never part of the package, it was simply how things happened to work. That discreteness has caused repeated and constant issues with population density, which is why they have increasingly created cross-realm options to mitigate that issue.

You keep acting as if a server's "discreteness" were something of inherent value, when it is not. It apparently has value to you, but that's your personal preference, not a fact. Discrete populations have advantages (knowing your neighbours), and disadvantages (stagnation, long queue times, parsity of population, etc). They are not inherently "good" in the way you're implying.

And again; the populations have NOT been distinct in at least 6 years. That's why there are things called "battlegroups", because servers do not exist entirely separate from each other. Server transfers damage the discreteness you're talking about, too.

Holding a placard saying "FIX OLD NO NEW" doesn't actually help the discussion in any way. The development team is going to keep moving forward. CRZ fixes a lot of outstanding issues with population densities, in a way that nobody has offered any reasonable alternative to. There's no way they're going back because some few people want to claim that discrete server populations are what make them feel fuzzy inside.

Ok, i got you.

Servers weren't discrete, they just happened to be discrete.

It wasn't designed, it just happened to be that way, after blizzard designed it that way.

Pure comedy gold.

[Funky303]

Unless a lot of people suddenly switch factions, there will always be an overweight of one faction over the other. Blizzard can't change that, only the players can.

Blizzard can change that for sure ! They did it 6 years by closing servers for new players when the server was full. The second they allowed payed transfer to closed servers and payed faction change, they broke the mostly working system.

The easiest way would be:

Make a server with 5000 accounts. Max 2500 Horde, other 2500 Alliance. The second the server reaches 2000 on a faction, close the server for transfers, even the payed ones. And make a queue like in most clubs. you can get in the second someone else leaves.

Since they can't stop transfers anymore, they could maybe change the system. Screw serverbased characters. Just give me a dropdown on what server i want to log each time. If a server is full, i can take another one.

Or merge servers with servers with opposed A:H ratio

[vikero]

Blizzard can change that for sure ! They did it 6 years by closing servers for new players when the server was full. The second they allowed payed transfer to closed servers and payed faction change, they broke the mostly working system.

The easiest way would be:

Make a server with 5000 accounts. Max 2500 Horde, other 2500 Alliance. The second the server reaches 2000 on a faction, close the server for transfers, even the payed ones. And make a queue like in most clubs. you can get in the second someone else leaves.

Since they can't stop transfers anymore, they could maybe change the system. Screw serverbased characters. Just give me a dropdown on what server i want to log each time. If a server is full, i can take another one.

Or merge servers with servers with opposed A:H ratio

That's not easy to create a server with such specifications, it requires $$$