Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Kevyne-Shandris]

any link to support your claim that crz started with mixed realms?

It started definitely with mixed PvP/PvE realms. Blizzard had to correct it afterwards. Check the patch notes for September.

[thunderdragon2]

If they suddenly were to change the core policy of PVP realms to something that suited your needs better, where should the rest of us who signed up for rule-less servers go? It's not our fault you signed up for something you didn't truly understand the nature of.

where did you go during woltk and cata?

you stayed on your own server , oh wait...servers no longer exist and there lies part of the problem, the only reason i mentioned the bg/ rbg thing as because thats what a pvp servver seems to be turning into now a giant uninstanced bg

[Deleted]

It's covered under the TOS, where Blizzard reserves the right to change just about anything they want to in the game.

There was NO agreement with players that world PvP was intended to be server-restricted, ever. Nobody has provided a single source for that. It was never promised, and the introduction of CRZ breaks no agreements Blizzard made with its customers. At all.

8 years of practice is the agreement. You perform a service for someone in the same way for 8 years and then alter it overnight, that person woud have a decent case in court, ToS style agreements would be ignored.

[Brytryne]

Except in this case the colour isn't specified, you've been given a blue one, driven it for 8 years and wake up one morning to find it's being sprayed red while sat on your driveway. Yes, the contract might say they can do it, but 99.99% of humans in such a situation will first of all go "wtf is this shit?"

And then they would remember "oh that's right I chose a pvp server".

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 08:09 PM ----------

8 years of practice is the agreement. You perform a service for someone in the same way for 8 years and then alter it overnight, that person woud have a decent case in court, ToS style agreements would be ignored.

Good luck with that in court lol

[Nerraw]

Umm all those things were part of the 'agreement' as you call it. Not ever one had the crystal ball you seem to have. People without precognition who have been on pvp realms did not know that blizzard would add CRZ to the game like you. So they assumed that when they were out being ganked or ganking then it would be people from their own realm. The only salient point you made in the drivel you wrote was thus not something Blizzard had any obligation to preserve. In this you are quite correct but i think it is incredibly naive to assume such a fundamental change in the way pvp realms operate would not ruffle a good few feathers.

Each to their own i guess.

There was no agreement, it was simply how things were at the time. And according to Blizzard themselves, it was broken. And now Blizzard have fixed their game to provide the experience they wanted you to have from the start. All the while, the basic PVP realm policy hasn't changed. There are still no rules, there never were. You just get ganked by more people now.

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 08:11 PM ----------

Just saying, people tend to resort back to the "They can gank and just fly away" Not stoping them from ganking, or even logging out, just stop them from flying away afterwerds, gives people a chance to at least kill them on higher levels.

Stopping people from mounting up is imposing rules on something that is supposed to have no rules. It's as simple as that. It might not be what you like, and that is fine. But some of us like the danger. Which is why we rolled on a no-rules realm in the first place.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

That is not Blizzard's philosophy regarding the WoW PvP. That is the opinion of the Diablo 3 development team regarding the direction they want Diablo 3 to go and whether they want to balance the abilities in that game around PvP.

Actually, watch the video not skip through it...

"Even the amount that PvP can alter the game, the PvE game in WoW, is unacceptable to us. Whenever we run into a case of this would be really awesome for PvE and then the PvP guy goes. 'That kinda screws PvP', the answer is always...'Shut up PvP Guy' lol"

[Deleted]

And then they would remember "oh that's right I chose a pvp server".[COLOR="red"]

yes, they chose a pvp server. And ow they aren't getting a pvp server. They are getting the pvp, but not the server.

Good luck with that in court lol

Oh you'd not win with a case for wow, it's frivilous, but for something larger theres loads of case law about. You can't provide a service for almost a decade then alter it overnight then claim you never had to provide what you had been doing. That'd be just daft.

[Keoren]

Actually, watch the video not skip through it...

I understand that as them saying they do not want PvP to alter the PvE game in Diablo 3 the way it does in WoW.

[Endus]

8 years of practice is the agreement. You perform a service for someone in the same way for 8 years and then alter it overnight, that person woud have a decent case in court, ToS style agreements would be ignored.

Not true, at all, even a little. If you have a contract to have the newspaper delivered every morning, and your delivery boy for 8 years gets your paper to your door by 7:30 giving you plenty of time to read it while you eat breakfast and leave for work at 8:15, and then he quits and a new kid takes over, and does the route the other way meaning he doesn't reach your house until 8:30, you have no case. You're still getting your paper delivered according to the contract. You would get laughed out of court, if not charged with wasting the court's time.

There is zero legal standing for assumptions made on the part of one party with no documentation to back them up. None. Bafflingly untrue.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

I understand that as them saying they do not want PvP to alter the PvE game in Diablo 3 the way it does in WoW.

You don't understand, when he explicitly mentioned WoW, not D3.

[Nerraw]

This thread started as some justification for ganking. While ignoring Blizzard's philosophy of WoW PvP in general...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8q02BQFLY

It's bound to have plenty of complaints from all corners (and why such threads even exist).

It's funny how quickly Jay Wilson's words became law after being the most hated man in Blizzard since May. And not only that, the leading Diablo 3 developer being asked about things not in his department. If you can give me an interview with an actual WoW developer mirroring his thoughts, I'm willing to listen. Until then, your argument has no value.

[Deleted]

Not true, at all, even a little. If you have a contract to have the newspaper delivered every morning, and your delivery boy for 8 years gets your paper to your door by 7:30 giving you plenty of time to read it while you eat breakfast and leave for work at 8:15, and then he quits and a new kid takes over, and does the route the other way meaning he doesn't reach your house until 8:30, you have no case. You're still getting your paper delivered according to the contract. You would get laughed out of court, if not charged with wasting the court's time.

There is zero legal standing for assumptions made on the part of one party with no documentation to back them up. None. Bafflingly untrue.

In this case, there is no specified time on the contract, all that there is to go off is what actually happened. i.e. for 8 years your paper has been there at 7:30.

if it's no good to you at 8;00 then you have a case.

[Nerraw]

CRZ was neither.

The MMO experience was. And while this may have been the reality for some servers, CRZ brings it to all servers.

[Endus]

yes, they chose a pvp server. And ow they aren't getting a pvp server. They are getting the pvp, but not the server.

False, on the face of it.

They're not getting certain things you would prefer to have regarding server community, but those were never in the agreement and aren't part of the definition of "PvP server", no matter how much you wish they were.

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 02:23 PM ----------

In this case, there is no specified time on the contract, all that there is to go off is what actually happened. i.e. for 8 years your paper has been there at 7:30.

if it's no good to you at 8;00 then you have a case.

No, what we have here is a case of you not reading the delivery agreement, which never stated "by 8 am", your assumption that it should is irrelevant.

[Deleted]

False, on the face of it.

They're not getting certain things you would prefer to have regarding server community, but those were never in the agreement and aren't part of the definition of "PvP server", no matter how much you wish they were.

By practice and the basic english definition of the word server, there is.

The agreement doesnt matter - it's a boilerplate which allows blizzard to do anything (and they are always ignored when it comes to it, boilerplates are designed to dissuade legal action, they have feck all standing precisely because they are so open ended.)

[Brytryne]

yes, they chose a pvp server. And ow they aren't getting a pvp server. They are getting the pvp, but not the server.


Oh you'd not win with a case for wow, it's frivilous, but for something larger theres loads of case law about. You can't provide a service for almost a decade then alter it overnight then claim you never had to provide what you had been doing. That'd be just daft.

1: Your server argument is no longer valid and getting old. It's still the same RULES. The only difference is there are now more players in the dead zones, but it doesn't overload the servers. Get over it. There's no agreement that STV is gonna be empty so you can level safely, the only agreement is that you can kill people and they can kill you. And you chose that option.

2: If the contract states "we can do whatever we want and you can cancel our agreement whenever you want" 8 years of habit means nothing.
That's the deal WoW offers you.

[Deleted]

1: Your server argument is no longer valid and getting old. It's still the same RULES. The only difference is there are now more players in the dead zones, but it doesn't overload the servers. Get over it. There's no agreement that STV is gonna be empty so you can level safely, the only agreement is that you can kill people and they can kill you. And you chose that option.

The only thing a pvp server says is that when pvp happens it will be with people from your server.

Nothing about safety there, nothing about avoiding ganking - just that they will be people from your server.

2: If the contract states "we can do whatever we want and you can cancel our agreement whenever you want" 8 years of habit means nothing.
That's the deal WoW offers you.

If a contract state "we can do whatever we want" then it's completely ignored in a dispute and practice (ie. what actually has been happening) is used to resolve disputes.

[Keoren]

You don't understand, when he explicitly mentioned WoW, not D3.

Let me break the statement down to how I see it.
First of all, Jay Wilson is the Game Director of Diablo 3. I am not aware of him being in a major position regarding the development of World of Warcraft. His statements are not the statements of the World of Warcraft development crew, nor the statements of Blizzard as a whole.

Even the amount that PvP can alter the game, the PvE game in WoW, is unacceptable to us.

He is talking about the amount that PvP is altering the PvE game in World of Warcraft. They find it unacceptable to face a similar situation where the Diablo 3 PvE game would have to suffer from being altered due to PvP, especially in a similar amount.

Whenever we run into a case of this would be really awesome for PvE and then the PvP guy goes. 'That kinda screws PvP', the answer is always...'Shut up PvP Guy' lol"

This further elaborates the point he is making.

[Deleted]

Do you play basketball or some sport or games with friends? If you EVER behave like an asshole while playing with other people you'd get kicked out of the team, even if you behave like an ass against the other team. If you're in the wrong neigbourhood, you'd get punched in the face too ^^

No, I do not play basketball nor any sport games but I did train judo in the past.

Getting excluded/kicked out is one thing, assaulting someone for being an asshole another thing. One of them being against the law aswell and could land you in the court. Being an asshole isn't exactly against the law. Assaulting someone on the other hand is.

People who want to assault someone over a game should seriously consider seeking help with anger management.

[Brytryne]

The only thing a pvp server says is that when pvp happens it will be with people from your server.

Nothing about safety there, nothing about avoiding ganking - just that they will be people from your server.

The only thing (well not the only, but one of them) the ToS says is we can change things however we want.

If a contract state "we can do whatever we want" then it's completely ignored in a dispute and practice (ie. what actually has been happening) is used to resolve disputes.

Context. It's a game. If you bring this particular case to court he will smack you in the head with the hammer and say "first world problems" and possibly even send you to jail for wasting everyone's time.