Texas cuts Planned Parenthood. Costs tax payers an estimated 200 million.

[Wells]

Hmm, I'll have to look into it to figure whether it deserves to be cut or not.

I'm not huge on the government funding things that can fund themselves and have no real necessity use, but this sounds like it has use.

It has fantastic use and saves the government on welfare costs. I'd be all for the government providing health care in its entirety but in the mean time government funding here is perfectly ok with me.

[semaphore]

I said that lower productivity from an illness causes less financial loss than having to pay for treatment for most if not all illnesses.

And your evidence for this is?

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Perhaps I'm misinformed about the mechanism for the accounting here. I'll look into it more before commenting further.

Well basically, if the amount of abortions PP provides stays the same with or without government money, fungibility isn't having any play.

[Spectral]

Just in case it wasn't 100% clear, I'm wholesale in favor of public funding of abortion at Planned Parenthood and other medical clinics. It's a legitimate medical procedure and there's no valid basis for funding it differently than other medical procedures.

[Magpai]

Either because 1) healthcare costs in the United States is insane

Uh, yeah? Where have you been lol. Anyway if you can get treatment for a cold, doctor visit and meds and whatever else it takes, that costs ANYONE less than the amount of financial loss your lack of productivity for said cold, you let me know. I won't even make you include the value of the time you spend getting treated.

[Spectral]

Well basically, if the amount of abortions PP provides stays the same with or without government money, fungibility isn't having any play.

That's a good way of thinking about it. Is that the case?

I'm not asking rhetorically, I don't now the answer.

[Verain]

No way. A box of pills costs WAAAAAAAAAAY more than 18 years of child development.

Well, people are a net benefit to society, not a cost. Even poor people. If we are going to interpret Texas's actions against Planned Parenthood purely FISCALLY, then what they are doing is investing in the future.

[semaphore]

Uh, yeah? Where have you been lol.

I'm pointing out that just because the American healthcare system is broken, doesn't mean it actually costs so much more to treat an illness than the cost in productivity. It just means too many people are making too fat profits from illnesses.

[Magpai]

And your evidence for this is?

Just think about how much you cost your company when you get the sniffles. I'll admit I work a bit slower. I might cost them a couple handfuls of dollars at most over a 3 day period. Now go to a health clinic and get some meds after your doctor visit and tell me that's worth not losing those few dollars.

[Wells]

That's a good way of thinking about it. Is that the case?

I'm not asking rhetorically, I don't now the answer.

Their site had a ton of literature on their funding and financial models last I checked.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

That's a good way of thinking about it. Is that the case?

I'm not asking rhetorically, I don't now the answer.

I don't know, that's what I've seen implied a lot, though. I'm too lazy too look into it. Besides, Texas will be Texas for a good 20 more years.

I said that lower productivity from an illness causes less financial loss than having to pay for treatment for most if not all illnesses.

Comparing loss in productivity from not treating one illness to the loss in money from treating all illnesses is fallacious. It's not a valid comparison.

[Wells]

Just think about how much you cost your company when you get the sniffles. I'll admit I work a bit slower. I might cost them a couple handfuls of dollars at most over a 3 day period. Now go to a health clinic and get some meds after your doctor visit and tell me that's worth not losing those few dollars.

You're completely missing the point. Illness is economic inefficiency. You are consuming things you don't need to consume ideally and not working as well as you could be working. Less illness means more prosperity.

[Magpai]

I'm pointing out that just because the American healthcare system is broken, doesn't mean it actually costs so much more to treat an illness than the cost in productivity. It just means too many people are making too fat profits from illnesses.

And I'm sure the fact that there are hordes of patients out there who aren't paying for their own healthcare and therefore are perfectly willing to go see the doctor when they get the hiccups and have no incentive to shop around or tough it out have nothing to do with that.

[Wells]

And I'm sure the fact that there are hordes of patients out there who aren't paying for their own healthcare and therefore are perfectly willing to go see the doctor when they get the hiccups and have no incentive to shop around or tough it out have nothing to do with that.

That's what triage is for. No one sees a doctor with the hiccups.

[Magpai]

You're completely missing the point. Illness is economic inefficiency. You are consuming things you don't need to consume ideally and not working as well as you could be working. Less illness means more prosperity.

There is no point missing here. The difference in how well you work will cost a concrete amount of money depending on severity and your job, and that loss is a cost to the business, and that cost is nowhere near the cost of getting a sickness treated, and it's true for all sorts of illnesses since the more major the illness and the more it costs the employer, the more it's going to cost to treat.

[semaphore]

That's a good way of thinking about it. Is that the case?

Like I said before, IIRC Planned Parenthood restructured itself into two organisations in Texas in order to limit government funding to only clinics that don't provide abortions. I might be wrong, but that's how I remembered the case.

[Magpai]

That's what triage is for. No one sees a doctor with the hiccups.

You and I both know that people go to doctors for conditions that don't need treatment and get treatment and don't care because they aren't paying for it and that hospitals capitalize on that.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

And I'm sure the fact that there are hordes of patients out there who aren't paying for their own healthcare and therefore are perfectly willing to go see the doctor when they get the hiccups and have no incentive to shop around or tough it out have nothing to do with that.

Except people won't do that. Maybe a few nutjobs, but not often. People won't make the trip because it won't be worth it, nor will they want to waste the resources. Most people feel very guilty when others foot the bill for them and will try to use as little money as possible.

[Spectral]

Their site had a ton of literature on their funding and financial models last I checked.

That's probably right. Oddly (well, I guess not oddly), I've given them money but never bothered to look at this. I support their mission, including abortion, so I've never been overly concerned about where the money specifically goes.

I have to confess that I'm always a bit skeptical of things that look an awful lot like accounting tricks, but it's certainly true that it's possible that that public funding doesn't affect their abortion rates.

[Wells]

There is no point missing here. The difference in how well you work will cost a concrete amount of money depending on severity and your job, and that loss is a cost to the business, and that cost is nowhere near the cost of getting a sickness treated, and it's true for all sorts of illnesses since the more major the illness and the more it costs the employer, the more it's going to cost to treat.

Cost of getting the sickness treated is irrelevant. Sickness lowers economic efficiency.

---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 06:40 AM ----------

Like I said before, IIRC Planned Parenthood restructured itself into two organisations in Texas in order to limit government funding to only clinics that don't provide abortions. I might be wrong, but that's how I remembered the case.

It was. They didn't give a shit because it doesn't have anything to do with abortions themselves. Its just red meat for their rabid base.