Stuck on Stone Guard for 2 Months. WoL Included.

[Deja Thoris]

HAHA this kiddo

I replied to your PM with a basic maths lesson. Hope it helps!

[wolfpackfan]

I replied to your PM with a basic maths lesson. Hope it helps!

ummm, dps = damage/active time - can be very wrong if you have low active time over the fight.
dps(e) = damage / total fight length - true indicator of your dps for the fight (and the number WoL uses for rankings.)

So you only do ~22k dps for that fight.

[volrath50]

I ended up in a "social" guild at the beginning of MoP, because my old raiding guild fell apart, so I joined the guild of some people I know IRL. They were in a similar situation, in which we wiped over 50 times on Stone Guard without ever managing to get them below 70%. The main tank simply could not seem to do the fight, he would keep taunting the wrong dog, and taunting back the dog I taunted off him. DPS was terrible, no one broke 30k DPS, and one guy was doing 8k (!) DPS.

Apparently this group, before I ended up there, managed to clear 30 or 35% nerfed normal Dragon Soul, so they couldn't understand why they were getting blocked at the first boss of MoP.

After way too many wipes with no improvement whatsoever, I found a new guild, and am now working on HoF. That may be what you need to do.

I suspect there are a number of guilds in a similar situation, where they were able to progress in super-nerfed Dragon Soul but are basically terrible and can't make headway on stone guard whatsoever.

[NeverStop]

I ended up in a "social" guild at the beginning of MoP, because my old raiding guild fell apart, so I joined the guild of some people I know IRL. They were in a similar situation, in which we wiped over 50 times on Stone Guard without ever managing to get them below 70%. The main tank simply could not seem to do the fight, he would keep taunting the wrong dog, and taunting back the dog I taunted off him. DPS was terrible, no one broke 30k DPS, and one guy was doing 8k (!) DPS.

Apparently this group, before I ended up there, managed to clear 30 or 35% nerfed normal Dragon Soul, so they couldn't understand why they were getting blocked at the first boss of MoP.

After way too many wipes with no improvement whatsoever, I found a new guild, and am now working on HoF. That may be what you need to do.

I suspect there are a number of guilds in a similar situation, where they were able to progress in super-nerfed Dragon Soul but are basically terrible and can't make headway on stone guard whatsoever.

That's just guilds being complacent. For the month before MoP, we practiced our raiding skill by "progressing" through H Dragon Soul with the 35% buff turned off. The first week we got roadblocked pretty hard by H Ultraxion. Then, people started reading up on 5.0.4 class changes and we cleared H Madness with no buff two weeks later. I feel like that helped us a lot going into T14 (now 4/6 H 16/16 N). Clearing 35% nerfed content has bred a lot of bad habits and the expectation that bosses should just roll over in a lot of guilds.

[Makarena]

I dunno what to say really, you know, that kind of dps was not even good for t11 ...
That must be either trolling or I dont even know, i'm completely speechless, how did some of people even reach 90 ...
I mean, no offence, but its just beyond limits, the only advice I can give is to l2p lol, sounds harsh but thats the reality

[kamuimac]

Clearing 35% nerfed content has bred a lot of bad habits and the expectation that bosses should just roll over in a lot of guilds.

You would be surprised how many guilds were very happy - and how many players are already bored with MoP cause bosses dont fall down like nerfed DS - and cause they dont see any nerfs incoming they decide not to waste their time and not prelong game time - wonder how after initial MoP release subs growth the subs number will look like round february when many players/guilds will be bored to death with 4/6 1-2/6 progress and will simply quit it.

[Whiskra]

You would be surprised how many guilds were very happy - and how many players are already bored with MoP cause bosses dont fall down like nerfed DS - and cause they dont see any nerfs incoming they decide not to waste their time and not prelong game time - wonder how after initial MoP release subs growth the subs number will look like round february when many players/guilds will be bored to death with 4/6 1-2/6 progress and will simply quit it.

Better that they quit rather than complain that the game is too hard. It's for the games own good, if you can't down Stone Guards normal after 2 months, then you should probably find a new game, or perhaps even a new hobby, one that allows handholding to the extreme.

I would suggest buying hundreds of coloring books and doing all the "connect the dots".

[Deleted]

Better that they quit rather than complain that the game is too hard. It's for the games own good, if you can't down Stone Guards normal after 2 months, then you should probably find a new game, or perhaps even a new hobby, one that allows handholding to the extreme.

And once blizzard loses enough subs they'll nerf the raids into oblivion, and you'll be on here wondering why.

The elitist mindset is what causes the game to get easier every cycle. It amuses me.

[Deleted]

Your groups dps is absolutely terrible - 50-60k dps was easily doable in blue heroic gear, with all of the easy gear from LFR you should be able to do significantly more - I can't fathom how you have people below 30k unless they're attacking the dog with the 90% dmg reduction for periods of time.

That said - what's wiping you? Because you're not lasting long enough to hit the enrage.

If it's tank taunts - then google the fatboss tactics video, check out the heroic version too - I think that had a more indepth taunting explanation.
If it's chains - only break them in the jasper overload phase, if then - getting people to just hug each other is perfectly viable and often preferable.
If it's cobalt mines, get people to open their eyes.

Looking at the 5m21s fight, since it was your longest attempt, the shaman and one priest are taking 28% of their damage from cobalt mines, your other priest is taking 20% of their dmg taken from it. They either need kicking up the rear to start looking at where they're standing OR your not clearing mines.

Are you using people to clear cobalt mines when it's the cobalt overload phase? You do know how the overload phases work, where you take a 90% reduction from the overloading guardians abilities, right?

Better that they quit rather than complain that the game is too hard.

Nah, better they have the guts to come to a site like this, as the OP has done, and instead of crying for nerfs and blaming the bosses for being too hard - ask people to tell them what they're doing wrong and actually try to improve, then, hopefully, get the kill and take some pride in it. You don't need to be clearing the place on heroic to get something out of raiding - if the finally get stone guards down in a week or two after reading this thread and improving their game, then kudos to them. They've as much a right to take pride in their accomplishment as anyone downing heroic Amber Shaper.

I certainly agree that just nerfing the hell out of things is terrible, at least as quickly as it was happening in Cata, I liked how T11 was handled - but having everyone quit isn't the best option.

[Deleted]

Your groups dps is absolutely terrible - 50-60k dps was easily doable in blue heroic gear, with all of the easy gear from LFR you should be able to do significantly more - I can't fathom how you have people below 30k unless they're attacking the dog with the 90% dmg reduction for periods of time.

That said - what's wiping you? Because you're not lasting long enough to hit the enrage.

If it's tank taunts - then google the fatboss tactics video, check out the heroic version too - I think that had a more indepth taunting explanation.
If it's chains - only break them in the jasper overload phase, if then - getting people to just hug each other is perfectly viable and often preferable.
If it's cobalt mines, get people to open their eyes.

Looking at the 5m21s fight, since it was your longest attempt, the shaman and one priest are taking 28% of their damage from cobalt mines, your other priest is taking 20% of their dmg taken from it. They either need kicking up the rear to start looking at where they're standing OR your not clearing mines.

Are you using people to clear cobalt mines when it's the cobalt overload phase? You do know how the overload phases work, where you take a 90% reduction from the overloading guardians abilities, right?

It is indeed a terribly complicated first boss.

I'd imagine that these guys are maybe IRL friends who have never done this sort of thing before, given the patience with trying plus the general ineptitude. (The lack of a morchok or two this tier is a crying shame, tbh.)

[Whiskra]

Nah, better they have the guts to come to a site like this, as the OP has done, and instead of crying for nerfs and blaming the bosses for being too hard - ask people to tell them what they're doing wrong and actually try to improve, then, hopefully, get the kill and take some pride in it. You don't need to be clearing the place on heroic to get something out of raiding - if the finally get stone guards down in a week or two after reading this thread and improving their game, then kudos to them. They've as much a right to take pride in their accomplishment as anyone downing heroic Amber Shaper.

I certainly agree that just nerfing the hell out of things is terrible, at least as quickly as it was happening in Cata, I liked how T11 was handled - but having everyone quit isn't the best option.

I agree, but that's putting alot of faith into the current playerbase, and I wouldn't be surprised that people in general would either complain, or just simply quit, rather than admit they can't kill the first boss of the tier on normal mode and ask for help, this thread being an exception.

[kouby]

You and all your guild should go read up on guides about your respective classes, your dps and hps are incredibly incredibly incredibly low.

Learn the little tips and tricks that can change an encounter.

And, hum, looking through your logs... Have you realised there is a new mechanic in heroic? The little statues yoiu go and click then run on the tiles to activate a DPS and mana regen buff?

You guys did 5minute pulls where you did pitiful dps and hps, and I can't find the Tiles buff in your logs so I'm guessing you're either not using them or at the very least not enough.

Basic stone guards strat:
pull
1/ EVERYONE except for 1 or 2 healers and the 2 tanks go click on a statue and activate 2 or 3 times 10 tiles
2/ go back to boss, dps to 70% (should take about 30seconds or less
repeat 1 every time the boss deactivates the tiles
loot

The fight should take between 4 minutes to 5 minutes at the absolute maximum.

[Daedelus]

Tell your raiders to get GTFO addon too.

[Tsuna]

DPS and HPS are critically low. In dungeon blues for dps on a mostly 2 target cleave fight there should be no difficulty for all of the dps to push 50-60k, which is plenty to melt the boss. As a healer my paladin can just fart out eternal flames using pvp gear (mix 458/483) and do 55-60k hps. Raids aside, your guildies need to learn their classes from the ground up first. Stoneguards is a right bitch of an entry boss, at the very minimum your raiders have to be comfortable with bringing out their toon's potential. After that, ask for strategic help.

I'll leave my 2c here though.

Tank on two dogs: Use defensive cds but focus your abilities on doing damage (Cleave, just do it).
Tank on one dog: Your damage means squat, self heal self heal self heal. Swap duties of other tank is out of cds.

Healers: Pay attention to which dog is Petrifying, it informs you which mechanic will be doing next to no damage and which ones will be chunking people. Get dbm, watch the boss energy levels, if 2 dogs are at 90+ and are gaining energy, something is horribly wrong and you should pop cooldowns. NEVER, EVER, FLASH HEAL.

DPS: Cleave. Don't stand in purple goop, ever. Cleave. Don't walk next to blue crystals (Unless Cobalt is Petrifying, then it's ok). Cleave. Jaspar chains stick together like siamese twins. Cleave. Never hit the solo dog. Cleave. Self heal, I know it sounds odd but it can mean the difference between victory and defeat to use all of your skills (a well timed Ret paladin LoH can mean one less death and such). CLEAVE.

Good Luck.

[Terridon]

At least it's not a group that stops when things gives them problems. That's somewhat rare now

Are you all clearing the cobalt mines? Almost everybody in the raid blows several, on each attempt. Druid and hunter being the ones doing it the least.
Your DK died 3 times that night because of him triggering a mine(on the quick overlook.. might have been more times). Tell him to use anti magic shell of he think it's important to stand in a mine. It's awesome to clear mines, taking no damage, and getting tons of runic power, and making it easier for melee to walk after the dogs.
Looks like you more or less always have people randomly dying to mines. Half your raid triggers them and dies from them. If people didn't do that your healers would have a lot easier time dealing with explosions from the dogs. 175k damage from a mine, and an explosion shortly after kills a person.
Chains looks like it's overall dealt fine with.

I think enrage is at 8 minutes. With your average dps you will have stoneguard down with 108 million at enrage-time, so even if people stop jumping every mine in sight, your dps is still overall too low to kill him.
If you're all just in blues, you might consider to go into lfr, and get some better gear.

Overall i'dd suggest you tell people to really, really care about the mines. When they stop triggering mines and kill themself, they can begin on focusing on their damage on them.
Outside of raid, you should honestly tell them to go to a raid-dummy and try to beat it up. Then go to a guide, and read up on their class, and try again, and see the improvement. Let them do it a couple of hours. It can take a bit of time to get used to a rotation.

[Gande]

You and all your guild should go read up on guides about your respective classes, your dps and hps are incredibly incredibly incredibly low.

Learn the little tips and tricks that can change an encounter.

And, hum, looking through your logs... Have you realised there is a new mechanic in heroic? The little statues yoiu go and click then run on the tiles to activate a DPS and mana regen buff?

You guys did 5minute pulls where you did pitiful dps and hps, and I can't find the Tiles buff in your logs so I'm guessing you're either not using them or at the very least not enough.

Basic stone guards strat:
pull
1/ EVERYONE except for 1 or 2 healers and the 2 tanks go click on a statue and activate 2 or 3 times 10 tiles
2/ go back to boss, dps to 70% (should take about 30seconds or less
repeat 1 every time the boss deactivates the tiles
loot

The fight should take between 4 minutes to 5 minutes at the absolute maximum.

You realize they aren't on heroic, right?

[Tradu]

Tanking Stone Guard is extremely easy.

*1 Boss* ----- *1 Boss**1 Boss with the debuff*

#1 Taunt the boss with the debuff to the other side when it has 40 energy.
#2 Keep the dogs like this if the next debuff comes to the side with 2 dogs
#3 If the debuff comes to the loner-dog, have the taunt tank the one that just had a debuff
#4 Keep the dogs like this until the next debuff

I've never understood why you would switch which tank is tanking 2 dogs, that just makes DPSing more annoying. We just have me tank 2(and because of that I do 100k+ on normal and 180k on heroic) and our paladin tanking the lone dog, and just swap one of my dogs for his dog if his dog is overcharging or one of mine that isn't overcharging gets too high energy.

[Terridon]

I've never understood why you would switch which tank is tanking 2 dogs, that just makes DPSing more annoying. We just have me tank 2(and because of that I do 100k+ on normal and 180k on heroic) and our paladin tanking the lone dog, and just swap one of my dogs for his dog if his dog is overcharging or one of mine that isn't overcharging gets too high energy.

Because of the amount of tanks that fails at trading the dogs. We had some tanks on trial doing that. They would taunt the dog that just got taunted of them, or taunt the petrifying dog, instead of the other.
If tanks are good, then it's no problem, but it's a bit unforgiving if a taunt-switch gets messed up. More forgiving with just one taunt, and having melee run back and forth.

[AeneasBK]

>>> HI <<<

IF taunting an co-ordination of tanks is an issue have you attempted a tidier method we use on 25 man.

Avoids mis-taunting but will require a 3rd tank (no idea if you're guild has someone who can help out there.)

Rather than having 2 dogs and 1 dog on its own, have all 3 dogs seperate at 3 corners of a square. As one of the dogs starts to petrify the raid its tank kites it over to one of the other 2 dogs for 50 energy, then over to the other dog for the remaining 50 energy, once it "pops" at 100 energy, return to the original tanking position and await the next petrification.

Yes its not the quickest and the healers will have to heal a 3rd tank which is a pain. But the tanks won't ever have to taunt you actually have to *try* to pop the wrong dog, and it makes more space so your DpS will be able to see the floor-poop more easily and avoid it.

If one of your tanks is a paladin, spec into "Battle Healer" and get them to use seal of insight, our paladin tanks do about 50% of the healing our healers do, due to the "smart heal" effect from that talent (it always targets whoever has least health so will top up the DpS who made the latest error).

Best of luck, and dont give up

[Enosh]

I've never understood why you would switch which tank is tanking 2 dogs, that just makes DPSing more annoying. We just have me tank 2(and because of that I do 100k+ on normal and 180k on heroic) and our paladin tanking the lone dog, and just swap one of my dogs for his dog if his dog is overcharging or one of mine that isn't overcharging gets too high energy.

2 reasons really:
1. reduces the chance of misstaunts, there is only one taunt going on, given that taunt fuck ups are probably the nb1 reason for wipes on this boss, reducing that chance is really good imho
2. makes it a bit easier on the healers by 2 dogs being on a tank that almost always has some CD up, although that one is kinda RNG, we got 6 or some A->B->A switches last time, with me just standing around looking stupid -.-

edit:
@OP, I have no idea what your blood DK is doing... low amount of death strikes for a 5 min fight, 29 icy touches for some reason, he is using death coil(40 RP) over rune strike (30 RP), I thought he is shielding people but on dmg done it only shows the dogs...