New Jersey man sitting in debtor's prison for not paying alimony.

[semaphore]

The fact that, when it reaches the courts, the judges have such leeway to pull this shit is beyond reproach.

And what are some examples of such court cases you are outraged about (and did not get overturned on appeal)?

[Jokerfiend]

Alimony should only be paid in cases of secret adultery or in otherwise "happy" marriages. In most cases, Alimony is setup with prenups.

[semaphore]

Alimony should only be paid in cases of secret adultery or in otherwise "happy" marriages. In most cases, Alimony is setup with prenups.

And if a spouse gave up on a career to take care of the children, and now can't find a decent job due to having been out of the job market for so long, fuck them. Right?

[Laize]

And what are some examples of such court cases you are outraged about (and did not get overturned on appeal)?

Did you even read the OP? Or in Canada, the man who wound up killing himself over onerous alimony and child support?

This shit happens every day. Don't pretend it doesn't need to be fixed. Even if it's as rare as you seem to believe, it ruins lives. Do you just not give a shit about that?

---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 08:54 AM ----------

And if a spouse gave up on a career to take care of the children, and now can't find a decent job due to having been out of the job market for so long, fuck them. Right?

I'm an opponent of alimony grants in no-fault divorce initiated by the non-breadwinning spouse.

You don't get to just decide you're tired of your partner for no reason and then use them as a meal ticket.

When alimony is granted it should only exist to aid the payee's transition back into the workforce. Not be a permanent solution.

[Wells]

Do you just not give a shit about that?

Isn't your whole thing not giving a shit about people who aren't you or your friends?

[Laize]

Isn't your whole thing not giving a shit about people who aren't you or your friends?

How nice of you to join (and derail) the thread, Wells.

[Wells]

So now you care about other people?

[semaphore]

Did you even read the OP?

I'd take it seriously if it isn't seemingly completely based on a letter the guy wrote himself, with the first two pages of google results apparently completely filled with equally subjective personal blogs, facebook pages, etc.

Or in Canada, the man who wound up killing himself over onerous alimony and child support?

No one ever gives me a specific case or a court decision.

---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 09:04 AM ----------

So now you care about other people?

Laize cares about a few specific types of people.

[Laize]

I'd take it seriously if it isn't seemingly completely based on a letter the guy wrote himself, with the first two pages of google results apparently completely filled with equally subjective personal blogs, facebook pages, etc.

Oh come on. The entire men's rights movement was founded on injustices in the family courts. You can't be so willfully blind as to not see that real people are forced to pay ridiculous amounts of alimony. You can't even call yourself a feminist and agree with permanent alimony which is one of the biggest problems IN the family court system.

No one ever gives me a specific case or a court decision.

http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/20...child-support/

[semaphore]

Oh come on. The entire men's rights movement was founded on injustices in the family courts. You can't be so willfully blind as to not see that real people are forced to pay ridiculous amounts of alimony. You can't even call yourself a feminist and agree with permanent alimony which is one of the biggest problems IN the family court system.
http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/20...child-support/

I asked you for a specific case/court decision. You linked a page complaining about injustices without including any.

I mean, not that individual cases prove anything statistically speaking, but at least name a few.

[cFortyfive]

But everyone I know who's paying wants their kids

Don't you find that a bit too anecdotal yourself ?

A guy gets sentenced to pay $104,000/yr in alimony and another $3300/month in child support and someone saying she should do something to earn the alimony check is the sexist one?

Well I don't know the most recent divorce I happened to witness was the father of a good friend of mine who divorced his wife after ~42 years and he is paying a rather significant amount willingly as she raised all his three children and kept the household intact. I can't see anything wrong with that. I mean she can't go back to work anyways. Who the fuck takes somebody in who didn't work for 20 years and is now in their 60ies.

[Arteous]

I'm a man and i'm wondering can i get alimony? i mean if i am the one taking care of the household while she works ... well i should be able to get alimony. muahahaha now to find a rich hoochiemama.

[semaphore]

I'm a man and i'm wondering can i get alimony? i mean if i am the one taking care of the household while she works ... well i should be able to get alimony.

Yes.
http://www.marieclaire.com/career-mo...paying-alimony
http://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity...ce-settlements

[Jawless Jones]

Alimony

/10chars

[Laize]

I asked you for a specific case/court decision. You linked a page complaining about injustices without including any.

I mean, not that individual cases prove anything statistically speaking, but at least name a few.

Like these?

http://www.njalimonyreform.org/stories.php

[semaphore]

Like these?

http://www.njalimonyreform.org/stories.php

A cursory examination shows none of those references any actual verifiable court case. In fact all of them are disgruntled men complaining about their own experiences.

I don't know, seems like a problem of this supposed magnitude ("The fact that, when it reaches the courts, the judges have such leeway to pull this shit is beyond reproach") ought to have some sort of actual, legal evidence you could bring up.

[Jakexe]

I can see a murder suicide story following this. It happens way to often, wife is a bitch, demands money, keeps kids away to prove a point, man kills himself and kid/s to get back at wife.

Terrible situation but this is what starts the ball rolling.

[Laize]

A cursory examination shows none of those references any actual verifiable court case. In fact all of them are disgruntled men complaining about their own experiences.

I don't know, seems like a problem of this supposed magnitude ("The fact that, when it reaches the courts, the judges have such leeway to pull this shit is beyond reproach") ought to have some sort of actual, legal evidence you could bring up.

It's 4:30 AM and you expect me to be a paralegal?

http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawr.../332/mccoy.pdf

[Sunseeker]

I'd like to see the arguments on exactly why this woman deserves $4000 a month personally and $3300 for the kids. Does he have 10 kids? Does she live in a mansion? All I read in the article was that she was "disabled", which in this day and age could mean a lot of things, she might be paraplegic, or she might be blind in one eye. Both are disabilities, but the difference in their severity is massive.

My wife and I live on roughly $2400 a month combined income. While we have no children, I know dozens of families who don't even make half of that and are still somehow able to care for their children. So I cannot reasonably see how this woman deserves over $7000 a month.

[semaphore]

It's 4:30 AM and you expect me to be a paralegal?

http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawr.../332/mccoy.pdf

I'm confused as to what you intend to argue or demonstrate with that volume. It's not like I think the current system is perfect.