New Jersey man sitting in debtor's prison for not paying alimony.

[Laize]

I'm confused as to what you intend to argue or demonstrate with that volume. It's not like I think the current system is perfect.

Well then what the fuck?

The system is so far from perfect it's unbelievable. I've not spoken to a single divorced man who thinks he got a fair shake. Permanent alimony is utterly contemptible and I'm surprised you're even attempting to argue it's not.

[nnelson54]

Yeah it's not like the average child support payments only cover less than half the cost of actually raising a child (for that income bracket).

I want to live in the bracket where $143,600 a year is less than half the cost of raising a child and yourself.

I know Alimony isn't part of Child Support, but I raise my kids on less than what she is collecting in child support, let alone adding her $104K a year alimony on top of it(a dollar figure which nobody requires to live).

---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 10:24 AM ----------

And if a spouse gave up on a career to take care of the children, and now can't find a decent job due to having been out of the job market for so long, fuck them. Right?

The problem isn't the system itself, it's the human element. What you're saying makes sense until it runs into reality. The vast majority of women who receive big money permanent alimony(which should not even be a thing, it just fosters the attitude of not having to work) don't even try to get a job.

It should also be automatically waived in no-fault divorces that are initiated by the party that is collecting, which happens a lot.

[Wells]

I've not spoken to a single divorced man who thinks he got a fair shake.

You find it surprising that bitter disillusioned people are angry?

[S7orm]

that Ex must eat a lot to steal 2000$/week, even for an American

this is definitely one of the most stupid laws ever created

[semaphore]

Well then what the fuck?

I was making a point about legal biases in child support and custody (though I'd say the same about alimony). You jumped on me and began attributing various arguments I did not make to me. Like below:

Permanent alimony is utterly contemptible and I'm surprised you're even attempting to argue it's not.

Where did I argue that?

---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 10:44 AM ----------

The problem isn't the system itself, it's the human element. What you're saying makes sense until it runs into reality. The vast majority of women who receive big money permanent alimony(which should not even be a thing, it just fosters the attitude of not having to work) don't even try to get a job.

Source for this?

---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 10:44 AM ----------

You find it surprising that bitter disillusioned people are angry?

Who would have thought!

[Deleted]

Source for this?

That would be here... which you've apparently already read.

Speaking of the financial problems mothers bear following divorce, I’m reminded of a study done for UNICEF of British mothers and fathers following divorce. It did in fact find that mothers tended to do worse financially than fathers mostly for one very good reason – their refusal to work for a living. The study pointed out that following a divorce, barely over half of British mothers (51%) did any paid work at all, preferring to live on state aid. Indeed, 15% of mothers actually quit working after their divorce. With classic British understatement, the study’s authors mention that post-divorce financial inequality stems from “the greater career labour market attachment of husbands compared to wives.”

[semaphore]

That would be here... which you've apparently already read.

An actual source would be this UNICEF study it talks of. I do not in general consider opinion pieces a valid source.

[Deleted]

So I tried to track down that study... I found nothing. If it exists, it's not on the internet, and I have to assume the authors of that article made it up.

[Celista]

I thought we did away with debtor's prison. Is alimony the exception?

I remember reading a while back that men/women owing back alimony can be denied a passport or can be stopped at the gate before leaving the country, that blew my mind a bit.

[Rotted]

100k?

Just out of interest I'd love to know if their joint income surpassed 100k a year...

And hows he going to pay for the child at all if hes in prison, sorry but your systems fucked up

[semaphore]

So I tried to track down that study... I found nothing. If it exists, it's not on the internet, and I have to assume the authors of that article made it up.

Yeah, it's always a warning sign when the mmo-c thread that prompted the search in the first place, shows up on page 1 of google. But you see why I reject that kind of articles with unnamed, unsourced "references".

[Lunareste]

Does a restaurant still owe me food after I leave?

[Imuhdude]

Does a restaurant still owe me food after I leave?

Is my ex still required to blow me after I leave her?
Is my former employer still required to pay me after I quit?

[Deleted]

This thread makes me super happy about living in Scandinavia.
The only case in which I'd have to pay my ex money, is if we had a child together. In other words, child support (Which is pretty low too, because getting custody is already seen as having ''won''.)

In the case that my ex would be unable to support herself due to having been off the job market, like mentioned earlier; Either I'd get automatic custody of the child (if her situation made her unfit to raise a child) and my ex would recieve welfare while searching for jobs, having jobinterview-training / Learning to put together a CV or receiving jobtraining. (Which is basically working for free, just to be able to put it on the CV and/or getting a recommendation.)

Facts:

#1. This system is awesome.

#2. Alimony is ridiculous and outdated.

[Jackmoves]

^What he said, fucking ridiculous laws. We have to pay fairly high taxes though, but god damn it, I prefer that to having to pay out of my ass for an ex to maintain lifestyle.

Shocking amount of money I must say. Why the fuck does he have to pay her?
His only responsibility is his child/children and to provide them with what they need. This goes for the mother to. The mother should provide for herself, you should have no responsibility to cover her expenses, of course if you got money to spare it would be quite sound to help her out with things that directly or indirectly makes the childs life better/easier, does she need a car? Buy a used car for her. Expensive school trip, she can't afford it? Sort it out, etc.

Not sure how that can be considered a fair ruling. No wonder people get upset and bitter over their divorce. Isn't it better if the sum they have to pay is more moderate and the parents can then volunterily come to agreement for extra payments such as more money when the mother needs to buy for example winter clothes for the child? Most decent fathers(and thats the great majority of them) would do that without hesitating for a second because they would want their kids to have proper clothing etc.

Utterly retarded that he has to pay a very decent yearly income just because she happens to be the mother of his child.

[Mugly]

Well I'm glad we got to the horrible sexist nonsense on the first page.

And of course, when you say first page, you mean the opening post.

[the1seth]

Alimony is bullshit. She should have to blow him every time he hands over a check

This right here.

[juzalol]

Sounds like a pretty stupid system to me.

I can understand him having to pay for the childs expenses. Maybe pay for having
the child put in some sort of daycare so the woman can work.

And if she can't find a job and the guy for whatever reasons really has to pay big dollars
of alimony then she should at least work as a maid for him or something until he finds a
job.

[Celista]

Looking through this thread made me realize that I am lucky to be a woman.

1. No chick is going to call me out of the blue, tell me I knocked her up and then demand 18 years of child support.
2. Full control over reproductive decisions, if for some reason I decide to get an abortion or get the father of my unborn child out of my life I can head over to the abortion clinic without a second thought -or- keep my mouth shut, keep the "father" line on my child's birth certificate blank and go on my merry way.
3. If I do decide to involve my child's father in his/her life, I am almost guaranteed custody rights -and- I get an 18 year paycheck!

What a sh*tty system, no wonder men are so bitter.

[seta-san]

1. Alimony was a system created to support spouses in a time when women weren't allowed to work
2. Alimony today is a system used to keep the lower income spouse in the life style that they have become accustomed. Nobody should be entitled to a lifestyle.
3. alimony is a direct violation of 13th amendment's ban on indentured servitude (slavery)
4. alimony is also a violation of people's right of free association
5. Jailing people for failure to pay alimony and thus being charged with contempt of court should also be illegal because debtor's prisons are illegal. Contempt charges should not be used as a backdoor debtor's prisons.

3-5 also go for child support.